American Competitiveness

[3rdnlng]

Wrong! I spend more on my co-pays! You really are out of touch! My office copay is 20. Annual? Ha! Try every five months. Now mix in the family. Again, my employer the DoD pays around 700 bucks every 2 weeks... I gotta pick up just over 300... Service keeps declining, premiums have kept climbing for the last 20 years. When I started, copay was 2 bucks. What is all this adjusted to inflation. My premium every 2 weeks 10 years ago was just over 100 bucks... Now it is 300... Same company (Humana), less coverag, more copay... Again, not complaing... I am truly blessed... One man's ceiling is another man's floor.

 

Again... I am not complaining, I am just trying to illustrate the type of money that is getting thrown around and why we as Americans are having a harder time with competition. I understand that my lifestyle has to take a step back from what my parents lived even given my steep investment to what I wanted to do. That is okay and I am fine with that. Like you said, I could have done something else. BUT a majority of professions are coming to grips with this problem, while a few are going the opposite way. The disparity is growing between the haves and have nots and the health system (doctors on the top of the chain) are bleeding the people dry. The medical complex is at the top of what needs to be fixed in order for the US to grow productively.

 

 

Yes, but that benefit of only working one hour out of eight at the toll booth has to have some bennies.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Doc, after the last post by EiI is there an out for you with the Hippocratic Oath? If he came to you with an emergency, I could see it being ok for you to recommend him to someone else, like Dr. Kevorkian.

 

See that is the thing... I would probably make all you guys happy and and just fall on the sword. The health of my family is more important to me than my life... Anyway, I think he is the anthesisologist (sp)... Or is that the other doc here? I would trust Cooter the grease monkey down the street first! Just kidding Doc... Just kidding... But he is a specialist... No doubt he could put me to sleep.

 

Yes, but that benefit of only working one hour out of eight at the toll booth has to have some bennies.

You can't let it go I see... Let it go... It was funny at first and still kinda is. Even that one hour is more than some docs put in!

[3rdnlng]

See that is the thing... I would probably make all you guys happy and and just fall on the sword. The health of my family is more important to me than my life... Anyway, I think he is the anthesisologist (sp)... Or is that the other doc here? I would trust Cooter the grease monkey down the street first! Just kidding Doc... Just kidding... But he is a specialist... No doubt he could put me to sleep.

 

 

You can't let it go I see... Let it go... It was funny at first and still kinda is. Even that one hour is more than some docs put in!

 

 

You said it, about yourself. I guess that is why we should get rid of a ton of Federal workers. One hour of work during an eight hour shift is pretty bad. Maybe $30 an hour Federal workers should get their pay reduced to less than $4 an hour? That, and have their internet access limited.

[Jim in Anchorage]

Doc, after the last post by EiI is there an out for you with the Hippocratic Oath? If he came to you with an emergency, I could see it being ok for you to recommend him to someone else, like Dr. Kevorkian.

I would refer him to Dr Josef Mengele. Funny how he mocks the effort required to become a doctor, then says he should get a lawyer. Any union man will tell you that's a REAL skilled professorial. They write labor contracts!

[3rdnlng]

I would refer him to Dr Josef Mengele. Funny how he mocks the effort required to become a doctor, then says he should get a lawyer. Any union man will tell you that's a REAL skilled professorial. They write labor contracts!

 

 

I'm just laughing at the idiots. It's like they try to out do each other.

[Doc]

And this (your post) is the reason why we have a medical crisis. The world doesn't owe me anything as it does you... No matter what profession we choose... Just as your house isn't entitled to go up in value. Things may go down in value and so should your investment. Even given your amount of energy, time, hard work and dedication. You are the one who sounds entitled. To right the ship, somebody has to be screwed over... And it has to be your investment that takes a hit... It is the most bloated with regard to its market value. I know you will disagree and say how will they be able to get people to the medical professions... People will still be beaten down the door into the profession for the true love of helping other... Not to get a "return on their investment." You have Sinclair Lewis rolling over in his grave. Right now the system is worse because it is a parasitic system that first feeds on its own, then feeds on others to keep its life vibrant. The system could function on less reward.

 

Just as the huge pensions in my state should be wiped down to size, so should your investment. Hire a lawyer and let them sort it out.

 

There is a difference between good money and gluttonous great money. Taking no money at the start does not justify gluttony in the end.

 

People will never truely take care of themselves... Everybody has an expiration date stamped on them and you will always have customers.

 

Both the system and the people are broken.

 

Wrong! I spend more on my co-pays! You really are out of touch! My office copay is 20. Annual? Ha! Try every five months. Now mix in the family. Again, my employer the DoD pays around 700 bucks every 2 weeks... I gotta pick up just over 300... Service keeps declining, premiums have kept climbing for the last 20 years. When I started, copay was 2 bucks. What is all this adjusted to inflation. My premium every 2 weeks 10 years ago was just over 100 bucks... Now it is 300... Same company (Humana), less coverag, more copay... Again, not complaing... I am truly blessed... One man's ceiling is another man's floor.

 

Again... I am not complaining, I am just trying to illustrate the type of money that is getting thrown around and why we as Americans are having a harder time with competition. I understand that my lifestyle has to take a step back from what my parents lived even given my steep investment to what I wanted to do. That is okay and I am fine with that. Like you said, I could have done something else. BUT a majority of professions are coming to grips with this problem, while a few are going the opposite way. The disparity is growing between the haves and have nots and the health system (doctors on the top of the chain) are bleeding the people dry. The medical complex is at the top of what needs to be fixed in order for the US to grow productively.

 

 

I have been on blood pressure meds since I was 19. Even soaking wet at 160 pounds... I am now 44... Should I have skipped all those years on BP meds? In 20 plus years I have never hade my dosage titrated. Only times I have changed RX was for cost issues with the insurance company.

So a doctor has been keeping you from stroking-out, or having a heart attack, or killing your kidneys, since the age of 19, and is making at best about $150 (2-$20 co-pays and the insurance company reimbursing maybe $54 a visit) a year off of you, and all you can do is B word and moan about it because he/she makes a decent salary? You sound like those Bain workers who claimed Romney/Bain were like vampires, when the reality is that they kept their company alive 9 years longer than it has a reason to be. Unreal!

 

And why should just my (our, return on) investment take a hit. Doctors' salaries account for just 15% of total medical expenditures. That leaves another 85% that can be addressed, but isn't by Obamacare. Which is why costs will still skyrocket, while the service by your doctor will decline. And when docs are paying the same for the education, getting less money, and taking on more liability, you'll see their numbers dwindle. Right now there's a good chance Obamacare gets stricken-down or repealed so enrollments haven't changed. I'm already looking to get out, and I'm just 42.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Doc

[ExiledInIllinois]

You said it, about yourself. I guess that is why we should get rid of a ton of Federal workers. One hour of work during an eight hour shift is pretty bad. Maybe $30 an hour Federal workers should get their pay reduced to less than $4 an hour? That, and have their internet access limited.

 

Dude... I am NOT at work and very seldom post from work resources? What is your problem? Were you the one person fired by the fed?

 

So a doctor has been keeping you from stroking-out, or having a heart attack, or killing your kidneys, since the age of 19, and is making at best about $150 (2-$20 co-pays and the insurance company reimbursing maybe $54 a visit) a year off of you, and all you can do is B word and moan about it because he/she makes a decent salary? You sound like those Bain workers who claimed Romney/Bain were like vampires, when the reality is that they kept their company alive 9 years longer than it has a reason to be. Unreal!

 

And why should just my (our, return on) investment take a hit. Doctors' salaries account for just 15% of total medical expenditures. That leaves another 85% that can be addressed, but isn't by Obamacare. Which is why costs will still skyrocket, while the service by your doctor will decline. And when docs are paying the same for the education, getting less money, and taking on more liability, you'll see their numbers dwindle. Right now there's a good chance Obamacare gets stricken-down or repealed so enrollments haven't changed. I'm already looking to get out, and I'm just 42.

 

Dude... I pay 300 dollars every two weeks from stroking out... LOL...

Edited June 11, 2012 by ExiledInIllinois

[Chef Jim]

And this (your post) is the reason why we have a medical crisis. The world doesn't owe me anything as it does you... No matter what profession we choose... Just as your house isn't entitled to go up in value. Things may go down in value and so should your investment. Even given your amount of energy, time, hard work and dedication. You are the one who sounds entitled. To right the ship, somebody has to be screwed over... And it has to be your investment that takes a hit... It is the most bloated with regard to its market value. I know you will disagree and say how will they be able to get people to the medical professions... People will still be beaten down the door into the profession for the true love of helping other... Not to get a "return on their investment." You have Sinclair Lewis rolling over in his grave. Right now the system is worse because it is a parasitic system that first feeds on its own, then feeds on others to keep its life vibrant. The system could function on less reward.

 

Just as the huge pensions in my state should be wiped down to size, so should your investment. Hire a lawyer and let them sort it out.

 

There is a difference between good money and gluttonous great money. Taking no money at the start does not justify gluttony in the end.

 

People will never truely take care of themselves... Everybody has an expiration date stamped on them and you will always have customers.

 

Both the system and the people are broken.

 

So a couple hundred grand a year is gluttony? How many posts do you have along these lines in the football side of this site? Or in any of the movie threads? I probably think none.

[ExiledInIllinois]

So a couple hundred grand a year is gluttony? How many posts do you have along these lines in the football side of this site? Or in any of the movie threads? I probably think none.

Oh boy... Look what I did now... I got the whole conservative circle jerk to chime in! What's next, Rich in Ohio is gonna make his triumphant return!

 

LOL...

 

Anyway... I have some in there... PPP, I always though was fair game among us friends here... If the others were brave enough to wander here... Maybe that is why they don't!

[3rdnlng]

Dude... I am NOT at work and very seldom post from work resources? What is your problem? Were you the one person fired by the fed?

 

 

 

Dude... I pay 300 dollars every two weeks from stroking out... LOL...

 

 

Sure, I'm the one person fired from the Fed. I only worked 1/2 hour out of eight instead of your whole one hour out of eight. EiL, you are a joke.

[Chef Jim]

Oh boy... Look what I did now... I got the whole conservative circle jerk to chime in! What's next, Rich in Ohio is gonna make his triumphant return!

 

LOL...

 

Anyway... I have some in there... PPP, I always though was fair game among us friends here... If the others were brave enough to wander here... Maybe that is why they don't!

 

Let me ask you. What income per year would you consider a doctor make and not refer to him as gluttonous and let me know how you arrived at that number.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Sure, I'm the one person fired from the Fed. I only worked 1/2 hour out of eight instead of your whole one hour out of eight. EiL, you are a joke.

 

Can't be that much of a joke if I am getting all you nut job conservatives unified on the board... At least Tom's off your tail for the moment...

 

Let me ask you. What income per year would you consider a doctor make and not refer to him as gluttonous and let me know how you arrived at that number.

 

 

I really don't know... Things are so out of whack. The whole system should NOT be contingent on the loss the person was taking to achieve their education and training... That is a recipe for distaster in the medical profession... Especially for the customer.

 

Again... I am all for going back to fee for service. Sure I suppose you can do that now... But ins companies also have a hand in the out of whack prices. Can they give you a discount if you don't have insurance and are willing to pay cash up front?

[Chef Jim]

Can't be that much of a joke if I am getting all you nut job conservatives unified on the board... At least Tom's off your tail for the moment...

 

 

 

 

I really don't know... Things are so out of whack. The whole system should NOT be contingent on the loss the person was taking to achieve their education and training... That is a recipe for distaster in the medical profession... Especially for the customer.

 

Again... I am all for going back to fee for service. Sure I suppose you can do that now... But ins companies also have a hand in the out of whack prices. Can they give you a discount if you don't have insurance and are willing to pay cash up front?

 

If you don't don't know how on earth can you call a doctor gluttonous for the amount of money they make?

[dayman]

On a note related to American Competitiveness...recently saw some stuff about the real flaws in our skilled-labor legal immigration process. Why on earth we would take talent from around the world suck them through our higher education system often coming out with graduate degrees in STEM fields and then make it difficult for them to get green cards? Needless to say, if you are an immigrant student graduating with a degree in a STEM field a green card should come with your diploma...no questions asked.

Edited June 11, 2012 by TheNewBills

[ExiledInIllinois]

On a note related to American Competitiveness...recently saw some stuff about the real flaws in our skilled-labor legal immigration process. Why on earth we would take talent from around the world suck them through our higher education system often coming out with graduate degrees in STEM fields and then make it difficult for them to get green cards? Needless to say, if you are an immigrant student graduating with a degree in a STEM field a green card should come with your diploma...no questions asked.

No questions asked?

 

Isn't the motto of our enemy: "Live like the enemy." Not saying terroists are gonna go into the STEM fields.... But anything is possible in a no questions asked entitlement program.

[dayman]

No questions asked?

 

Isn't the motto of our enemy: "Live like the enemy." Not saying terroists are gonna go into the STEM fields.... But anything is possible in a no questions asked entitlement program.

 

It's an entitlement program to allow students educated in American higher education institutions majoring in STEM fields to then put the education to work in America? And I'm not sure irrational fear of terrorists should be brought up every time people talk about any foreigner ... last I checked it takes years to graduate from college plenty of time to blow something up while here on their student visa.

[ExiledInIllinois]

It's an entitlement program to allow students educated in American higher education institutions majoring in STEM fields to then put the education to work in America? And I'm not sure irrational fear of terrorists should be brought up every time people talk about any foreigner ... last I checked it takes years to graduate from college plenty of time to blow something up while here on their student visa.

 

True.

[Jim in Anchorage]

If you don't don't know how on earth can you call a doctor gluttonous for the amount of money they make?

Because people like EiI got their job when a buddy called and said "Hey go down to the canal! Their hiring carp counters!" That and his GED got him in the door. Look good[read: show up] during 90 day probationary period. All right, now in the union! Now just wait for the passage of time to move up the seniority ladder. Soon He's the boss carp counter. Then the foreman carp counter[who does nothing] all because of his hire date.

 

That's what EiL mean's when he say's he"worked his way up."

 

But 12 years of medical school is not even CLOSE to that.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Because people like EiI got their job when a buddy called and said "Hey go down to the canal! Their hiring carp counters!" That and his GED got him in the door. Look good[read: show up] during 90 day probationary period. All right, now in the union! Now just wait for the passage of time to move up the seniority ladder. Soon He's the boss carp counter. Then the foreman carp counter[who does nothing] all because of his hire date.

 

That's what EiL mean's when he say's he"worked his way up."

 

But 12 years of medical school is not even CLOSE to that.

Complete BS on your part... What a dumbass you are.

 

You know how I got my job? I saw an ad in the Buffalo News advertising a test so the USACE-Buffalo District could hire people. I took the test and about 4 months later I was called by Operations Division, Hydrographic Survey. They had a few jobs open for Survey Aide since they were forming a new survey crew to travel and do soundings from Toledo, OH to Watertown, New York... I was fresh out of school (UB) and said: "Sure, I don't mind traveling 5 days a week and making $6.56 an hour." I basically made ends meet on the TDY per diem... But it was a great job, low pay true... But skills were learned.

 

I did this for about 2 years... I was furloughed in the winter and brought back in the spring since the work was weather related. We sounded harbors between Toledo and Watertown... I worked with the "hand crew"... We did all the jobs the old way... Hand soundings and measuring where modern (at that time before 3 point GPS) systems had issues... Tag lines, transits, rod and chain... Sextants... All the old-school survey stuff to cut baseline and sound a given area of water for dredge operations. Ever see the yellow station numbers painted on the inner and outer harbor breakwaters in BFLO? On the Black Rock Channel? I painted them... They aren't needed any more since everthing is driven by the sky...

 

Anway, I did this for a couple of seasons and then was called in after my winter furlough... They said after one more season (in October) that my position would be "soft." I was being RIF'd... That I should make plans... I had no problem... My crew was eliminated and they kept me on in maintenance at the District until the Black Rock Lock opened up in April/May... When they needed more help there... I worked at Black Rock and gained lock knowledge through June... I noticed with the district that Rock Island was hiring on the MS and Illinois Waterway... I applied through the whole months of April, May, and June... I got a lot of "Qualified but not selected" answers... That is where your "Good old buudy system comes into play." Anyway... In June, I get a call from personnel at the Rock Island Arsenal, USACE and she asks if I would like a job as a survey aide making $7.85 an hour. She said that she noticed that was my job in BFLO... I could come immediately... The thing that floored everyone is that they even PCS'd me and paid moving expenses for that meger job... I jumped on it and worked there for about a year... I had my name in a file for openings at locks... Operators at that time made about 13 bucks an hour... I was called and asked exactly: "You don't want to work at the lock in Chicago do you?" I said: "Like hell I don't, it is 3 hours closer to BFLO than from the Quad Cities!"

 

And here I am... 20 years late... I knew absolutely nobody in BFLO District, Rock Island, and/or Chicago... Heck, the second move, they did not PCS... I loaded a van, car on the back and went to Chicago... Found an apartment in one day. The nice thing was my future wife was going to grad school three hours away @ the U of I in Champaign... That did influence my choice on moving to the MidWest with the Quad Cities (also about 3 hours from Urbana-Champ) move... Pay sucked, I had to basically make ends meet with the per diem and stay on the road... Until I was offered a lock job. My wife graduated and then figured the Chicago job market was better than NYS... Here we are in Illinois... Two children later (born in Indiana, we are on the border) all is well.

 

I find it and others do too, that I knew absolutely nobody... There is nobody I know working who has done that... My wife went on to get her Masters in Library Science (MLIS) from the U of I during the late 1990's... She went on to be library administrator at our town libraries... Still there... Closest family is 500 miles away.

 

So now, tell me what I did wrong... Except letting asses like you shoot your mouth off!

 

It is open shop here... You don't need to be in the union... I am not in it.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I am not downplaying Med School... It is very admirable... But that system is killing the field... Sure my life is pretty lame and tame... I see no reason why others that take bigger risks shoud not make more... But not where the very system gets over burden by the weight of the greed. But everybody takes risks, makes sacrifices... Me and my family still are after 20 plus years... Not grueling, but the shift work gets to you... Missing family events in BFLO, the grandparents not seeing their grandchildren, etc.. ect... Can get pretty down on you... But, you gotta plug away... We chose the life and it isn't bad... I am not looking to be rewarded either for it... I take pride in raising my family and helping friends and neighbors... And I will never gouge anybody to do it.

 

Sorry for the whole life story... I am not exactly a big shot, never will be... I come from humble roots and hope to pass this humility on to my family