brenty Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) http://www.nfl.com/n..._headline_stack I am wondering if they find replacement refs will we see a lot of bs calls or a lot of missed calls. (more then what we are use to see) I know it's not high level important news but i thought it was interesting. Edited June 7, 2012 by brenty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Could not get any worse than the refs have been over the last couple of years. The NFL needs to make these guys full-time employees, and have them working year round, and even in training camps with teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) Could not get any worse than the refs have been over the last couple of years. The NFL needs to make these guys full-time employees, and have them working year round, and even in training camps with teams. This is what happens when you have the international corner market on a sport. My fiance works in the US Soccer Development Academy--Referee Division. I can't imagine the NFL devotes the kind of resources to officials' development like other sports since we don't have to compete with officials on a world stage. There's no incentive for development. More so, there's no such thing as US Football (unlike US Basketball, Baseball, Swimming, Soccer, Gymnastics, Rugby, Water Polo, and so on.)Without a central organization, there's no set of national standards. Perhaps they should lobby football as an Olympic sport... Edited June 4, 2012 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Replacements will be easy to find, and these guys will all be out of their cushy part-time 6 figure jobs. I'd imagine that you'll see College Refs take on NFL games, or refs from big HS areas (Texas, Western Pa, etc). I doubt there will be a drop off in the quality of refereeing given the availability of so many replacements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 oh no they will be poor officials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Replacements will be easy to find, and these guys will all be out of their cushy part-time 6 figure jobs. I'd imagine that you'll see College Refs take on NFL games, or refs from big HS areas (Texas, Western Pa, etc). I doubt there will be a drop off in the quality of refereeing given the availability of so many replacements. The quality could very easily go up as well for example if the average age of the replacements is lower than the current guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuyInMalta Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Brady is wringing his hands right now. "But...but...the old refs protect me from owies!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) Replacements will be easy to find, and these guys will all be out of their cushy part-time 6 figure jobs. I'd imagine that you'll see College Refs take on NFL games, or refs from big HS areas (Texas, Western Pa, etc). I doubt there will be a drop off in the quality of refereeing given the availability of so many replacements. cushy 6 figure job? try $25,000 to $70,000. http://www.therichest.org/sports/highest-paid-nfl-referees/ http://www.job-employment-guide.com/nfl-referee-salary.html http://www.ask.com/answers/68681181/what-is-the-average-salary-for-an-nfl-referee http://averagesalarys.info/interesting-facts-about-nfl-referee-salary/ http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_salary_for_an_NFL_referee For how important they are to the outcome of games, you would think they should be fulltime employees making 6 figures. But they arent, and it's been a detriment to the game, imo. Edited June 4, 2012 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 cushy 6 figure job? try $25,000 to $70,000. http://www.therichest.org/sports/highest-paid-nfl-referees/ http://www.job-employment-guide.com/nfl-referee-salary.html http://www.ask.com/answers/68681181/what-is-the-average-salary-for-an-nfl-referee http://averagesalarys.info/interesting-facts-about-nfl-referee-salary/ http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_salary_for_an_NFL_referee For how important they are to the outcome of games, you would think they should be fulltime employees making 6 figures. But they arent, and it's been a detriment to the game, imo. With an income range like that I would definitely be swayed by additional cash. In a game of inches officiating those inches should be worth something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 With an income range like that I would definitely be swayed by additional cash. In a game of inches officiating those inches should be worth something. Exactly. I'm open to suggestions, but as far as I can tell, the only reason the NFL doesnt make the refs full-time employees is simply greed. If the average salary is $50,000/year, why not make them full-time employees and up the range to $70,000-$150,000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 They need to pay the refs more. Simple as that. As far as quality of the games officiating. It can, and probably will, get worse. A lot worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Brady is wringing his hands right now. "But...but...the old refs protect me from owies!" Either that, or the replacement crew will all be given 8by10 glossy's of Brady,And be told to be sure no one touches her in or out of the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 musta been training officials in cincy last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widerightradio Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Exactly. I'm open to suggestions, but as far as I can tell, the only reason the NFL doesnt make the refs full-time employees is simply greed. I read an article several years ago (at the time of the last ref contract) where a large number of NFL refs did not want the position to be full-time because they were able to hold down other jobs. The argument goes: If you make it full-time then you may actually have a drop in quality (especially short term) as refs leave in order to keep their full-time jobs. Also, if you make it full-time then fail to pay the refs enough, that problem will persist. Referring is a hard gig. Is there any evidence that the NFL's part-time refs are demonstrably worse than other sports' full-time refers? The NFL should pay its refs more, but I think the question of full-time v. part-time is much grayer territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I read an article several years ago (at the time of the last ref contract) where a large number of NFL refs did not want the position to be full-time because they were able to hold down other jobs. The argument goes: If you make it full-time then you may actually have a drop in quality (especially short term) as refs leave in order to keep their full-time jobs. Also, if you make it full-time then fail to pay the refs enough, that problem will persist. Referring is a hard gig. Is there any evidence that the NFL's part-time refs are demonstrably worse than other sports' full-time refers? The NFL should pay its refs more, but I think the question of full-time v. part-time is much grayer territory. I hear exactly what you are saying, and it makes a lot of sense. However, if there are current NFL refs that would rather keep their current fulltime jobs than become fulltime Refs, I'd argue that the league would be better without those kinds of employees. Why keep someone who doesnt want to be there, and is only half into it? If someone would rather be a lawyer, great, stay a lawyer. The NFL should be trying to hire refs that eat/breathe/live to be an NFL Official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widerightradio Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I hear exactly what you are saying, and it makes a lot of sense. However, if there are current NFL refs that would rather keep their current fulltime jobs than become fulltime Refs, I'd argue that the league would be better without those kinds of employees. Why keep someone who doesnt want to be there, and is only half into it? If someone would rather be a lawyer, great, stay a lawyer. The NFL should be trying to hire refs that eat/breathe/live to be an NFL Official. There were some earlier statements that made the full- v. part-time issue out to be black and white. I just think it's more complicated than that. I think there remains a question as to whether or not this is really a full-time job. Twenty-one games a year plus perhaps a couple of playoff games, plus trainings, promotional appearances, practice sessions. Compare that to what hockey, baseball, and basketball refs work. I don't think there's enough work there for full-time employment. And if there isn't, you'll miss out on a lot of great refs who take pride in what they do and want to have busy, fulfilling careers. Again, there's a lot of information I don't have in terms of how the referee union feels, how many hours refs currently work, how many hours refs can potentially work, and the comparative quality of NFL refs versus refs in other sports. Has there been detailed information over what the difference is between the NFL and the referee union? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 There were some earlier statements that made the full- v. part-time issue out to be black and white. I just think it's more complicated than that. I think there remains a question as to whether or not this is really a full-time job. Twenty-one games a year plus perhaps a couple of playoff games, plus trainings, promotional appearances, practice sessions. Compare that to what hockey, baseball, and basketball refs work. I don't think there's enough work there for full-time employment. And if there isn't, you'll miss out on a lot of great refs who take pride in what they do and want to have busy, fulfilling careers. Again, there's a lot of information I don't have in terms of how the referee union feels, how many hours refs currently work, how many hours refs can potentially work, and the comparative quality of NFL refs versus refs in other sports. Has there been detailed information over what the difference is between the NFL and the referee union? Good points. I see many posting that the "quality" of refereeing would increase if they made "full time employees", yet no one can present a convincing argument as to why this would be so. To me, it's not intuitive. Many of these guys have tons of experience. What, exactly, would they do from February until August? Boning up on refereeing textbooks? "Seminars"? Come on! And they would make better calls if they got a higher salary? That's laughable. Look around. MLB has always had much worse refereeing than the NFL. Those guys are full time. Ditto the NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Good points. I see many posting that the "quality" of refereeing would increase if they made "full time employees", yet no one can present a convincing argument as to why this would be so. To me, it's not intuitive. Many of these guys have tons of experience. What, exactly, would they do from February until August? Boning up on refereeing textbooks? "Seminars"? Come on! And they would make better calls if they got a higher salary? That's laughable. Look around. MLB has always had much worse refereeing than the NFL. Those guys are full time. Ditto the NBA. This has been discussed in other threads here, going back through the past season... Seminars and getting to know the rule book is just a small part of it. I'd have full-time refs at practices and training camps. Each crew could rotate around a couple camps, and basically be live refs during practice. This would help strengthen the relationship between refs and the coaches/players. It would also allow the refs the ability to make calls more consistently (as in, what is holding and what isnt? what is PI and what isnt?) and give them more time seeing things live at real speed. They can be teaching the players and coaches how they will be calling the games, what they are looking for, etc. They can learn, as a crew, how they should call certain things. The point is, the refs are a major part of the game. They should be a major part of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 This has been discussed in other threads here, going back through the past season... Seminars and getting to know the rule book is just a small part of it. I'd have full-time refs at practices and training camps. Each crew could rotate around a couple camps, and basically be live refs during practice. This would help strengthen the relationship between refs and the coaches/players. It would also allow the refs the ability to make calls more consistently (as in, what is holding and what isnt? what is PI and what isnt?) and give them more time seeing things live at real speed. They can be teaching the players and coaches how they will be calling the games, what they are looking for, etc. They can learn, as a crew, how they should call certain things. The point is, the refs are a major part of the game. They should be a major part of the league. Having them "ref" team practices is going to make them better?? And at training camp blowing whistles? I'm sorry, I don't see any way that changes anything. And no sport with full time refs does this--likely because it is understood that it would not improve quality. Look, every NFL team plays only 16 regualr season games a year--5 times less than NBA and NHL and 10 times less than MLB. A bunch of blown calls in those sports and no one cares--hell, until playoffs, nobody is really watching them. NFL is much different and the stakes are much higher since every game is precious and watched widely. Also, it seems that refereeing football is orders of magnitude more difficult than any other major sport. Mistakes will be made. Crazy people will mention conspiracies when things don't go their way. But the experience of the current group of refs in the NFL and the system that got them there can't be replaced by a younger, more inexperienced group of full time clock punchers. You want to improve the quality of NFL football? Make it a full time job for the players. Make them work out year round so the annual rash of injuries that happen in the first month of the season will be minimized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 ok weo, whatever, your prediction of a hypothetical situation is more right. there is absolutely no way the refs would get ay better or benefit at all from more time doing what they do... you win. jeez louise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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