San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Every team has a QB coach. Are they not supposed to teach mechanics? Hmmm… did you read posts 5, 10, and 11? 'Cause I think those posts probably hit pretty close to the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Yeah the irony of the criticism is that if the Bills hadn't made Fitz' mechanics a public issue, then no one would have been the wiser for it. In other words it would not be the issue that it is now had they simply not made it a part of the public dialogue. For doing a good thing they've opened themselves to criticism which I understand because the finer criticism is that they/Fitz didn't do this sooner. Nonetheless the end result is that they're taking criticism for doing a good thing. SJBF, I usually agree with you, but I'm not sure you're right here, or maybe I'm not sure you're looking at a broad enough picture. Fitz' inaccuracy, or more correctly in my mind maddening inconsistancy, is apparent to everyone who sees him play. One week he'll start out 11 for 11, threading the needle with beautiful throws. Then he'll have time to throw a lbomb down the left sideline, his man has separation, and it misses, short or long, he'll throw a "WTF?" duck, an INT, then again, beautiful, needle-threading throws or balls put where no one but the receiver can get them. Fans say "I hope he can improve somehow" and are somewhat mystified. Non-fans call him a "noodle armed interception machine", which is clearly not true altogether. It's much better for Fitz, the Bills, and everyone, to own openly that there are mechanical issues with certain throws that Lee has identified and they are addressing, than to have a background clamor of doubters "he's so inconsistant" "so inaccurate, will never change" etc etc. Are the Bills really attracting so much criticism for doing a good thing? I guess I'd be curious to read some of it. As to why it wasn't done sooner, it's pretty simple. You don't try to mess with a guy's mechanics during the season, and last year there was no off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Yeah the irony of the criticism is that if the Bills hadn't made Fitz' mechanics a public issue, then no one would have been the wiser for it. In other words it would not be the issue that it is now had they simply not made it a part of the public dialogue. For doing a good thing they've opened themselves to criticism which I understand because the finer criticism is that they/Fitz didn't do this sooner. Nonetheless the end result is that they're taking criticism for doing a good thing. Just looking forward to Tuesday's OTA session… It's much better for Fitz, the Bills, and everyone, to own openly that there are mechanical issues with certain throws that Lee has identified and they are addressing, than to have a background clamor of doubters "he's so inconsistant" "so inaccurate, will never change" etc etc. Are the Bills really attracting so much criticism for doing a good thing? I guess I'd be curious to read some of it. As to why it wasn't done sooner, it's pretty simple. You don't try to mess with a guy's mechanics during the season, and last year there was no off-season. I didn't say that they would be better off not making it a public topic. I'm just pointing out the irony that by "putting it out there" that they are now coming under criticism for it. Also I didn't say or imply that the topic was "attracting so much criticism." I merely pointed out that it was "opening them to criticism." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtbag Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I didn't say that they would be better off not making it a public topic. I'm just pointing out the irony that by "putting it out there" that they are now coming under criticism for it. Also I didn't say or imply that the topic was "attracting so much criticism." I merely pointed out that it was "opening them to criticism." this is less ironic than it is unfortunate. in praising lee, they denigrated fitz. maybe i've been hitting the peyote too hard but i figure that in this day and age, when nfl teams have like 20 coaches and every high school player with an arm attends a specialized qb camp, there's gotta be someone discussing mechanics with qb's. apparently not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 maybe i've been hitting the peyote too hard but i figure that in this day and age, when nfl teams have like 20 coaches and every high school player with an arm attends a specialized qb camp, there's gotta be someone discussing mechanics with qb's. apparently not. Why does it have to be so black and white? IMO, it's no different than Butch Harmon vs. Hank Haney or Angelo Dundee vs. Cus D’Amato. Lee puts a lot of emphasis on footwork and lower body positioning. So we hear about how Fitz has never had a coach like this before and go, "Heavens, the Bills organization is full of dufuses for never having a coach like this!" or "Now I know why Fitz can't throw!" They could just have easily hired a QB coach like Jim Caldwell and we'd be hearing about what his "secret formula" is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) LOL Edited June 4, 2012 by fansince88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtbag Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Why does it have to be so black and white? IMO, it's no different than Butch Harmon vs. Hank Haney or Angelo Dundee vs. Cus D’Amato. Lee puts a lot of emphasis on footwork and lower body positioning. So we hear about how Fitz has never had a coach like this before and go, "Heavens, the Bills organization is full of dufuses for never having a coach like this!" or "Now I know why Fitz can't throw!" They could just have easily hired a QB coach like Jim Caldwell and we'd be hearing about what his "secret formula" is... huh? you brought up jim caldwell and his secret formula, not me. you called the bills organization "dufuses," not me. my comments are all based on what fitz has said. and it's clear that he feels lee is telling him something he's never learned before. i like fitz. before he took over, this team was brutal to watch. it was absolutely awful. i know the dude is flawed but i love the fact that he's willing to take risks that may exceed his ability. at least he orchestrates an exciting offense. still, i'm surprised that none of his previous coaches have taken the time to discuss mechanics to him prior to today -- especially since he's almost thirty. i'm not sure why you think that i'm ripping fitz or the bills here. i'm just surprised that someone in his position never had this training before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 It's great post this time. Consider the statements coming from Fitz and Lee to be politically correct and leave it at that. oh i cant. The true secret of all this hulabaloo is that Ryan and Young are going to be better players. If they can listen. The perception that Fitz is receptive and learning is probably quite real. Hopefully we have a synergy developing. some QB coaches do certain facets of teaching. Lee seems to be one for repairing mechanical defects first as rebuilding sound foundations of tossing. and that is what maybe Ryan was quoted for i believe. i think we got something going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent H Jr Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) Sliib, MAn! What a way to touch in a topic/theory/question, only a few in this forum or general fans, could've adress this like you did here. My personal opinion is youre damn right on target, and I guessitisjustlikeCorporateWorld,youcanassume forever thatguys in charge at exec level know what they are doing, not even that but they have mastered it for 20years,and then you find boneheaded decisions that break people, departments, companies and even countries every day. I guess it goes like the song: "everybody plays the fool...no exception to the rule, and we Bills fans have seen plenty of boo-boos. Keep up the good analysis work Edited June 4, 2012 by Kent H Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 i'm not sure why you think that i'm ripping fitz or the bills here. i'm just surprised that someone in his position never had this training before. I wasn't ripping you per se. More like the whole premise of this thread--that Fitz's deficiencies are all due to a lack of technique and coaching. I'm sure Chan has worked on his fundamentals, given his own experience at the position and heavy input on the offense. It would appear that Lee just takes it to another level--and I wouldn't be surprised if that would be the case with any other NFL QB he might coach as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Unfortunately, it's not that simple--and the 6-inches between the ears remains the most important physical quality for an NFL QB... Six inches? Mine's AT LEAST eight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sllib olaffub Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 Like I said, we don't know how the organization is run from the inside. I do believe, though, as others have also proposed, that one of the ways in which a smaller organization might become and remain more competitive is by spending money in different ways. All this is speculation - but, unlike the rosters on an NFL team, which are capped into a floor and ceiling, the purpose of that cap being to ensure the sport remains competitive despite geographic/demographic advantages certain teams like Dallas or Washington might enjoy, teams are not made to spend specific amounts on facilities (although it certainly seems like there is a lot of behind closed doors pressure to keep all the stadiums up to date) or coaches, or other aspects of pro-football that lend to the overall product. So, it seems like a team that might claim to bring in less money - the smaller market teams - might wish, if the top priority was profit, to spend as little as necessary on coaching and the other aspects not mandated. And, for the better part of the last decade Bills fans have, I believe rightfully so, been suspicious of Ralph Wilson's apparent reluctance to spend the necessary money to attract the right kind of coaches. I just take it one step further here and say that between the two - player salaries and coaching - the disproportion is astounding. The cap is somewhere around 120 million. The total salary of the coaching staff? I'd guess something like 15 million a year, and that's probably high. There's probably the case where there could be too many coaches running around, as well. So, I'd say spend on the best coaches, and that money will be returned in victories and sales, as opposed to wasting money on players that won't contribute to winning without the right coaching. And, spend a little extra to get the specialists to help where the help is needed. Some teams do it, others don't. I am glad Buffalo is now doing it. I think we're a team on the rise in the NFL and I do attribute it to Buddy and Gailey, who I think came in here with the intention of giving it one last shot, and doing it the way they believe it should be done. So, let's hope all of it ends up giving us a playoff team this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I didn't say that they would be better off not making it a public topic. I'm just pointing out the irony that by "putting it out there" that they are now coming under criticism for it. Also I didn't say or imply that the topic was "attracting so much criticism." I merely pointed out that it was "opening them to criticism." Sorry if you feel misquoted. What you said was "Nonetheless the end result is that they're taking criticism for doing a good thing." (exact quote: not just open to criticism - actually taking it) I queried "are they really taking so much criticism?" It's not intended as a challenge, if they're being criticized, I'm curious and would like to see it, s'all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Sorry if you feel misquoted. What you said was "Nonetheless the end result is that they're taking criticism for doing a good thing." (exact quote: not just open to criticism - actually taking it) I queried "are they really taking so much criticism?" It's not intended as a challenge, if they're being criticized, I'm curious and would like to see it, s'all. I'm talking about the criticism on this forum… and it hasn't only been in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 the curing of throwing inaccuracy?? now ive heard it all. fitz has lots of good qualities---much of his inaccuracy stems from the fact that he doesnt have a good arm---and that he has to throw so hard most the time just to get the ball there.I admire that he puts everything he has into that 20-30 yd pass that a lot of 12 yr olds can make(not with an nfl rush coming at them of course).he is not a wimp--and he gets good zip on the over the middle passes and is reasonably accurate on them--and hits them in stride usually. The problem comes in when he throws those out passes to the sidelines or the longer routes. When the wind is in the right direction, the moon is in the 7th house,and the rest of the stars align...Fitz can throw 50-55 yd spiral and hit the receiver downfield.-But too often Giants game stuff happens and the receiver who is open 50 yards down the field is waiting for a wounded duck--allowing the DB to camp under it.--The out patterns---those just go in the general direction of the receiver and I hope they dont throw too many of those. Hopefully this QB coach will show Fitzy how to know his limitations a bit better...and hopefully Chan will get some of that message too.More running game will prevent the DBs,LBs from pinching in as much.Chan did NOT adjust to that last year once they had Fitz figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas55 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Ryan Fitzpatrick " I just go out and throw, nobody's ever taught me how to do it. I knew I had along way to go with my mechanics, but I never knew how to improve it or find that person (coach) to help me". Really? The NFL is only the biggest sport by far in the country, a multi billion dollar business, and the QB position is by far the most important (and best paid). But in his entire NFL career Fitz never had any coaching in the area of throwing mechanics. Can you imagine a professional golfer, or MLB hitter/pitcher never receiving any coaching/instruction on mechanics. It's unbelievable in a sport so big and a position so important he received virtually no instruction/coaching in throwing mechanics. And hey, Fitz, I know your a smart guy and all, but with an NFL career and millions of dollars on the line, I would think you would have, on your own, at some point in any offseason found a QB coach to work with you on your throwing mechanics. I know that they are out there. It's really a strange attitude by Fitz as an individual, and any NFL team that had employed him, to not obtain or provide this type of critical coaching. Tiger Woods is arguably the greatest golfer of all time, and he constantly works with a coach on mechanics. And proper mechanics are critically important in any sport. To have never received coaching in that area is mind boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Ryan Fitzpatrick " I just go out and throw, nobody's ever taught me how to do it. I knew I had along way to go with my mechanics, but I never knew how to improve it or find that person (coach) to help me". Really? The NFL is only the biggest sport by far in the country, a multi billion dollar business, and the QB position is by far the most important (and best paid). But in his entire NFL career Fitz never had any coaching in the area of throwing mechanics. Can you imagine a professional golfer, or MLB hitter/pitcher never receiving any coaching/instruction on mechanics. It's unbelievable in a sport so big and a position so important he received virtually no instruction/coaching in throwing mechanics. And hey, Fitz, I know your a smart guy and all, but with an NFL career and millions of dollars on the line, I would think you would have, on your own, at some point in any offseason found a QB coach to work with you on your throwing mechanics. I know that they are out there. It's really a strange attitude by Fitz as an individual, and any NFL team that had employed him, to not obtain or provide this type of critical coaching. Tiger Woods is arguably the greatest golfer of all time, and he constantly works with a coach on mechanics. And proper mechanics are critically important in any sport. To have never received coaching in that area is mind boggling. Seeing as how he was a 7th round pick out of Harvard behind Marc Bulger and Jamie Martin, then went to Cinci to back up Carson Palmer then came here to backup future hall of famer Trentative Edwards, maybe the backup QBs mechanics werent the highest priority to the coaches. Lots of QBs have bad mechanics. Its not uncommon. The ones with the best mechanics arent the best at the game. Ask Trent and Brian Brohm how much mechanics have made them successful QBs. Be Happy that Fitz is continuing to get better rather than rest on his fancy contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/146538-a-little-something-to-ponder/ merge in 3, 2, 1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzfan23 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Bubba Watson... "Never taken a lesson and never even watched my swing on video or had any video analysis of my swing" - he's won a major and a score of other events...great golfer and what does he say? "I'm a feel player"... that could be Fitzy. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 If it ain't broke don't fix it. It's a little broke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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