LeviF Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 They're normal people that understand the science behind it. - Science - YEC Pick one.
DC Tom Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 To get 46% out of that poll, you have to ascribe to one hellacious redefinition of "creation". More accurate to say that 46% believe in God. But only about a third of them believe in Creation.
/dev/null Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 - Science - YEC Pick one. Gonna have to plead ignorance on this one. What's YEC?
boyst Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 Gonna have to plead ignorance on this one. What's YEC? Young Eric Cartman.
LeviF Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 Gonna have to plead ignorance on this one. What's YEC? Young Earth creationism.
boyst Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 Young Earth creationism. Mines better. By the way, I was smart enough to Google it earlier!
LeviF Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 Mines better. By the way, I was smart enough to Google it earlier! I thought about doing one of those lmgtfy links
/dev/null Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 Young Earth creationism. So there are some crazies out there that espouse a belief. Does that make all people who subscribe to the same belief crazy? Are all black teenagers in hoodies grill faced thugs? Are all black teenagers in hoodies out for skittles? Mines better. I agree I thought about doing one of those lmgtfy links I did Google it. There were a few possibilities. Was 99% sure which one you meant but wanted confirmation
boyst Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 So there are some crazies out there that espouse a belief. Does that make all people who subscribe to the same belief crazy? Are all black teenagers in hoodies grill faced thugs? Are all black teenagers in hoodies out for skittles? I agree I did Google it. There were a few possibilities. Was 99% sure which one you meant but wanted confirmation The other choice was Yamaha stock. Dafuq? Science or Yamaha?
LeviF Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 So there are some crazies out there that espouse a belief. Does that make all people who subscribe to the same belief crazy? Didn't say they were crazy. I said that science and YEC have almost nothing to do with each other. Does that make those that subscribe to YEC crazy? Not necessarily. It makes them extremely faithful, for better or for worse.
/dev/null Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 The other choice was Yamaha stock. Dafuq? Science or Yamaha? Yamaha made keyboard and synthesizers. Keyboards and synthaziers killed 80s music I've made my choice. I'm a Libertarian type so I believe your own decision is up to you. So enjoy your Duran Duran while it lasts, just don't expect Alice In Chains to bail your ghey ass out
ajzepp Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 I believe in the theory of Evolution. I also believe in God. They're not mutually exclusive. Same here...and you're exactly right, they aren't mutually exclusive at all, a point that is lost on nearly everyone who doesn't take the time to obtain a basic understanding of the principles of evolution. I remember when I took my first legit college level biology course back at Temple U. It was my first real exposure to evolution and the instructor would ALWAYS make comments about how there could not be a God given the physical evidence that contradicted this belief. I remember one time we were discussing the anatomy of the human knee joint and he just went on and on about how the knee would be a far better design if there actually were a God. Anyway, I got a real big dose of evolution and I recall being pretty shaken by it since this guy was using the topic to make the case for atheism. I kid you not, about two or three hours after the lecture that REALLY pushed me over the edge, I called a buddy of mine who is a very devout Roman Catholic. (I'm Catholic, as well, but a pretty lousy one by most accounts.) I told him just how much I was bothered by what felt like an attack on my beliefs, and literally while I was on the call with him, there came the Pope (JP the Deuce) on the local news addressing evolution. It was one of the most surreal experiences of my life due to both the content of the news clip and especially the timing. I believe he was visiting the U.S. at the time, and he basically said that it's perfectly fine for Catholics to accept and study evolution, but to remember that God is the architect of it. All of a sudden I felt like I could reconcile what I was learning about the science component with my faith. The topic became even more interesting to me and every science course I took from that point forward (especially genetics and physiology) was absolutely fascinating to me. I've since "evolved" my own view of what Adam and Eve represented and love to learn more about what the scientific community is discovering about God's universe
ajzepp Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 Pfft. Come to GA. The religious kooks are rampant and are in a dire need of being thinned out. Back in the early 90's Cobb County made sodomy illegal in attempt to ban homosexuality. Cobb County Board of Education attempted to get evolution disclaimer stickers put into textbooks. Some of the tards in the GA legislature wanted the phrase "In God We Trust" made part of the new license plate. It didn't pass but a resident can get a free sticker to put on their plate. Don't even get me started on the 10 Commandments. I'll never forget the billboard I saw the very first day I arrived in Georgia when I moved here from Philly back in '99. The first thing I saw was the EKG waveform, and since I was about to become an RN it naturally caught my attention. As I got closer, I saw the words above it...it said, "Jesus Loves You...Turn or BURN!" There are a lot of big-hearted, well-intentioned, God-fearing Christians down here....but there is also another type who use scripture and religion to place themselves above others and take part in discrimination and bigotry. I remember when I was engaged to my ex-wife and many of the members of her Baptist church found out I was Catholic. They sent her emails and took her aside after service DEMANDING to know about our personal lives, particularly if we were sexually active. They threatened her with ex-communication if she didn't disclose to them private details about our relationship. Ironically enough, this was a church where a youth pastor was arrested and convicted of molesting underage girls who were attending that church. When I found out what they were doing to my ex-wife, I wrote the pastor (who stated he didn't realize what was going on) a very direct and candid letter indicating the steps I would take if I heard one more instance of a church "leader" attempting to interrogate and/or threaten my ex. I was disgusted by the whole thing.
justnzane Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 Pfft. Come to GA. The religious kooks are rampant and are in a dire need of being thinned out. Back in the early 90's Cobb County made sodomy illegal in attempt to ban homosexuality. Cobb County Board of Education attempted to get evolution disclaimer stickers put into textbooks. Some of the tards in the GA legislature wanted the phrase "In God We Trust" made part of the new license plate. It didn't pass but a resident can get a free sticker to put on their plate. Don't even get me started on the 10 Commandments. I can vouch for this as I lived in Douglas County for awhile and would drive into Cobb to visit family in Powder Springs. As a teacher down there, word got to my students that I am not religious and they wanted to "convert me" to the lords way. I think that the Southerners took up a staunch belief in religion to compensate for losing the civil war. I agree w/ slash's statement that creationism and evoulution should not be mutually exclusive as much as some people try to make it. Religious documents were written by man to have man live a more honest life. Is any of it influenced by divinity, only God and those men will ever know. Religion is about being a good person, and not about facts in my opinion.
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted June 3, 2012 Author Posted June 3, 2012 I never understood why people hate on other people that believe in the Judeo-Christian story of creation. Why does it bother some people so much? I'm a staunch believer in the Theory of Evolution and have been since I was a kid. I know Christians and Jews that believe in the Biblical Creation story. Oops, I'm sorry I forgot it's only cool to bash them if they're Christian so forget I mentioned the Jews. Anyways, I've discussed this several times with believers in Biblical Creation. They're not mouthbreathing hillbilly rednecks. They're normal people that understand the science behind it. I know a chick that believes in Creationism and has pointed out flaws in the theory of Evolution. Neither belief is 100% accurate I try to keep an open mind about just about anything. I believe the climate is changing. I don't believe in Manbearpig's Powerpoint®. I believe you should have the right to smoke pot. I also believe drugs are bad, mmmkay. I believe you should have the right to shove a d*ck up your *ss. I also believe you should not simulate that act in front of a church. I believe in the theory of Evolution. I also believe in God. They're not mutually exclusive. My own personal theory is of Eric Cartman as God. And on the 7th day he said... Screw You Guys, I'm Going Home The difference being that Evolution Theory is striving toward 100% accuracy, while Judeo-Christian creation mythology is 100% unsubstantiated and just fine with it. Which, as you point out, shouldn't be a problem. Live and let live, right? Except, HERE'S the problem...many Creationists would prefer that public schools eschew scientific theory for mythology. Sadly, there has been some success in this regard. That officially makes it a social issue. People should believe what makes them happy. In fact, believing that there's a god who set evolution in motion is logical. Not my belief, but it defies nothing besides the burden of proof. But let's not write a false narrative where the majority of the vitriol is coming from the agnostic side. Let me ask you something. If poll results were released tomorrow that showed 46% of Americans believed Zeus and Prometheus crafted mankind out of clay, wouldn't you find that just a little troublesome?
/dev/null Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 Except, HERE'S the problem...many Creationists would prefer that public schools eschew scientific theory for mythology. Sadly, there has been some success in this regard. That officially makes it a social issue. As opposed to people who want schools to prohibit the teaching of Creationism? I say teach them both and let the kids decide But let's not write a false narrative where the majority of the vitriol is coming from the agnostic side. I'm not a religious person. I don't go to church and have serious issues with organized religion. I know faithful Christians and Jews as well as die hard atheists. In my experience I've found the atheists to be more bitter and zealous in their beliefs Let me ask you something. If poll results were released tomorrow that showed 46% of Americans believed Zeus and Prometheus crafted mankind out of clay, wouldn't you find that just a little troublesome? No more or less disturbing than polls showing a third of Americans think George W Bush orchestrated 9/11 or polls showing that a third of America believe Barack Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya
Beerball Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 The difference being that Evolution Theory is striving toward 100% accuracy, while Judeo-Christian creation mythology is 100% unsubstantiated and just fine with it. Which, as you point out, shouldn't be a problem. Live and let live, right? Except, HERE'S the problem...many Creationists would prefer that public schools eschew scientific theory for mythology. Sadly, there has been some success in this regard. That officially makes it a social issue. People should believe what makes them happy. In fact, believing that there's a god who set evolution in motion is logical. Not my belief, but it defies nothing besides the burden of proof. But let's not write a false narrative where the majority of the vitriol is coming from the agnostic side. Let me ask you something. If poll results were released tomorrow that showed 46% of Americans believed Zeus and Prometheus crafted mankind out of clay, wouldn't you find that just a little troublesome? You're a little harsh there Sage. I've seen instances where PUBLIC.....(key word, no?) schools have been told that they must teach both. I've never seen an instance where a public school has taught creationism instead of evolution. Considering the fact that some districts are primarily made up of fundamentalists that's pretty amazing. There are plenty of things that I would prefer my public school do. I prefer they take my kids at 5am and keep them until 7pm. Should I turn myself in to CPS? No, that's silly...just like your statement. My own personal beliefs are just that, personal. I will say that my BS is in Geology so it should be apparent where I fall on this one issue. There's plenty of room in this world for everyone's system of beliefs and there really isn't a reason to disparage anyone because they worship a diety you don't ascribe to. You by using words like 'mythology' tell everyone here that you look down on anyone who has Judeo-Christian beliefs. When you say '100% unsubstantiated & 'Jedeo-Christian' in the same sentence I might believe that you think that the entire bible is bunk. We know that isn't the case, don't we?
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted June 3, 2012 Author Posted June 3, 2012 As opposed to people who want schools to prohibit the teaching of Creationism? I say teach them both and let the kids decide I'm not a religious person. I don't go to church and have serious issues with organized religion. I know faithful Christians and Jews as well as die hard atheists. In my experience I've found the atheists to be more bitter and zealous in their beliefs No more or less disturbing than polls showing a third of Americans think George W Bush orchestrated 9/11 or polls showing that a third of America believe Barack Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya Wouldn't the onus, then, be to teach every theory on creation and let the kids decide? The Navajo have a pretty intriguing mythology. As for who's more zealous among the zealots from each group, there's nothing but empirical evidence. I will say that atheists aren't known for promising eternal torture to those who don't align.
Dan Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 1338738338[/url]' post='2479401']As opposed to people who want schools to prohibit the teaching of Creationism? I say teach them both and let the kids decide ... The problem with that idea, and so many people I know feel like you do, is that Creationism is a religious theory. Evolution is a scientific theory that is accpeted throughout the scientific world and supported by factual evidence, and as such, should be taught in Science class. Creationism is a religious theory, and as such should be taught in a class on Religion. If you want your kids to learn about Creationism, then I say send them to bible studies class or whatever your church calls it (or a private school) and they can get all the God taught to them that you want. There's too many religions and too many sectarian beliefs regarding the origin of life. Why should one be favored over the other? Would you also be in favor of teaching Muslim beliefs in public school science classes because 51% of that community is Muslim and wants it in their texts? Scientologists have pretty strong beliefs they claim are supported by facts, should we add their ideas to tomorrow's studies? To clarify, I have no problem teaching Creationism or any or religious belief, but it should not be taught in a science class as an alternative to evolution until we have sufficient, widely accpted, factual scientific evidence to warrant it. Until then it belongs in a religous studies type course.
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted June 3, 2012 Author Posted June 3, 2012 You're a little harsh there Sage. I've seen instances where PUBLIC.....(key word, no?) schools have been told that they must teach both. I've never seen an instance where a public school has taught creationism instead of evolution. Considering the fact that some districts are primarily made up of fundamentalists that's pretty amazing. There are plenty of things that I would prefer my public school do. I prefer they take my kids at 5am and keep them until 7pm. Should I turn myself in to CPS? No, that's silly...just like your statement. My own personal beliefs are just that, personal. I will say that my BS is in Geology so it should be apparent where I fall on this one issue. There's plenty of room in this world for everyone's system of beliefs and there really isn't a reason to disparage anyone because they worship a diety you don't ascribe to. You by using words like 'mythology' tell everyone here that you look down on anyone who has Judeo-Christian beliefs. When you say '100% unsubstantiated & 'Jedeo-Christian' in the same sentence I might believe that you think that the entire bible is bunk. We know that isn't the case, don't we? I was referring specifically to the creation story in Genesis, which in my opinion absolutely counts as mythology. It is unsubstantiated. If I've been overly harsh, I can assure you that wasn't my intention. Most religious people are decent and kind. Most PEOPLE are decent and kind. That, I do believe.
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