JohnC Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Look, I had a good BM this morning. That's the bottom line. It was just a good BM. I won't start a thread about it, just to rub other posters' faces in it. If you had a more exhilerating BM would you be more enthusiastic? Wouldn't it be rude to rub another poster's face in a high mound of poop?
billsfan89 Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 They have to cut him after this season. But for now he is our best and really only (Counting on Merriman isn't something I am willing to do) backup at the DE position. The guy is an average DE in a 4-3 but for once he is actually going to be coming off of the bench which is the perfect role for him. Next season we can look for a replacement but for now we need the depth he provides.
Sisyphean Bills Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Kelsay--over his carreer, has been an average player on below average defenses. Can he now become an above average veteran on a newly stacked defense? I say Yes. Bully for you.
Mr. WEO Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 It is embarrassing to read the number of posts on this board that have relentlessly attacked Chris Kelsay. Embarrassing. And yes, I'm fed up with it, so I started this thread after hearing the Bills' head coach acknowledge Kelsay is a good football player whom he considers among his starting rotation at DE. Was that really a problem for you and others? Not ONE of the "I know better because I watch him play on TV" crowd can point to a single person in the NFL "business" (media, players, coaches) who has characterized Kelsay as anything other than a good, solid player. THAT is my point. The point you won't acknowledge (it's not possible you missed it) is that some people feel that his renewed contract far outpaced his actual performance and that is where much of the criticism began. And no, it wasn't a problem for me. The criticism of this guy has justification. You can't bear the thought of that. You can say every player is "good" and part of a "starting rotation". Fine. But it's hardly worth starting a post about. Let Kelsay prove his doubters wrong.
truth on hold Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 His new contract overlapped with being moved to the wrong spot. Again, not his fault.
BillsVet Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 His new contract overlapped with being moved to the wrong spot. Again, not his fault. How about the seven seasons from 2003-2009 when he was at his natural position and recorded all of 22 sacks, or 1 for every 5 games. Add in the 5 fumbles he forced, 3 picks, and 1 safety and that's 31 impact plays in 7 seasons. If Kelsay had signed an extension in 2010 for 3 years and 10M I think there'd be a lot less criticism, but he didn't. DE's get paid to get to the QB and Kelsay doesn't despite have a decent sized contract.
truth on hold Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) I agree the 2010 contract was rich, but that wasn't WEOs point ( at least how I read it ) The 2010 contract compensated him for moving to a position where at best look like crap as he learned it. At worst he'd never get it. Bills must have struck a bargain we're going to move you, your performance will suffer , but we got you covered. Again, if you want to blame someone, blame the bills. Which I did at the time, switch to 3-4 was dumbest thing they did. Edited June 1, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack
Malazan Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Kelsay will be a hated as a terrible player until the day he is in another uniform and then he will be viewed by TBD as a surefire hall of famer.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 I think that throughout his career, Kelsay has been beloved by his coaches for everything he's brought to the table. These things include dependability, work ethic, leadership through example, professionalism, etc. Keep in mind that Kelsay has twice been the recipient of contracts which we fans have believed to be inflated beyond his value on Sundays… and he was given those contracts by different regimes. I think when his coaches speak about him, they tend to speak better of him than if they were only evaluating his play on Sundays. No they're taking about his play on Sunday. HE'S A GOOD FOOTBALL PLAYER. Not great, not bad, in between which is good. Tough, physical, doesn't miss many tackles, can put some heat on the QB, good quickness, doesn't get caught out of position, plays hard for entire 60 mins. (while playing his rightful position of DE) There's no evidence his status has been justified by what he does off field and in the locker room. Thats just more of this stereotype of the white player as lacking athletically and having to make it up in other ways. Doesn't apply here. We have differing opinions. As far as the second statement of yours I bolded, his inability to maintain backside containment predates his move to linebacker. He's always been influenced by misdirection and more than most players I've watched, loses track of where the ball is. I can't count the number of times he's gone for the play fake and allowed the quarterback to roll past his containment. But I agree he's a decent player. On the other hand Kelsay signed a 4-year, $23 million deal in 2007 and a 5-year $28.2 million deal in 2010. So he's made lots of money and his performance has to be evaluated from that context. Better than average player? Possibly. Worth his pay? Not in my amateur opinion.
Best Player Available Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 We have differing opinions. As far as the second statement of yours I bolded, his inability to maintain backside containment predates his move to linebacker. He's always been influenced by misdirection and more than most players I've watched, loses track of where the ball is. I can't count the number of times he's gone for the play fake and allowed the quarterback to roll past his containment. But I agree he's a decent player. On the other hand Kelsay signed a 4-year, $23 million deal in 2007 and a 5-year $28.2 million deal in 2010. So he's made lots of money and his performance has to be evaluated from that context. Better than average player? Possibly. Worth his pay? Not in my amateur opinion. "Worth his pay"? That's probably where most people have issues with Kelsay. Some think he's over payed for average play. If you can put a number on locker room leader, etc. I don't think even that justifies his bloated salary.
eball Posted June 2, 2012 Author Posted June 2, 2012 The point you won't acknowledge (it's not possible you missed it) is that some people feel that his renewed contract far outpaced his actual performance and that is where much of the criticism began. And no, it wasn't a problem for me. The criticism of this guy has justification. You can't bear the thought of that. You can say every player is "good" and part of a "starting rotation". Fine. But it's hardly worth starting a post about. Let Kelsay prove his doubters wrong. 130 posts later, I'd say you're incorrect. Anyway, I don't give a crap about Kelsay's contract. I don't write the checks, and his contract hasn't prevented the Bills from signing anyone else. If fans are upset with Kelsay because THEY believe he hasn't earned his money, well, that's also ridiculous. Clearly, Bills' management thinks he's an important piece of the puzzle. And just for the hell of it, more Kelsay admiration from the Bills' new DC, Wanny: "There's nobody that wants to win more than him and [he] practices that way, shows that in meetings, shows it in walk throughs," Wannstedt said. "[it's] kind of how he lives his life and that's why he's been such a good player for so long." But I know, the fans know better.
Meathead Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 saying kelsays contract is why hes hated is like saying some guy looked at you wrong is why you hauled off and punched him in the face people hate kelsay for one reason: because they are hate addicts and need a target. if they cut kelsay yesterday by today those people would have picked somebody else to direct their hate on. hes been here the whole decade of suck and thats enough for those people decide hes worthy of their scorn thats it. doesnt make sense, but look at the world around you, look at how many people treat each other, its so widespread you hardly notice it until it manifests in something irrational and easy to spot like this
2003Contenders Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Historically it does seem like the most polarizing figures around here are the ones that we as fans deem to be "overpaid" (or "over-drafted" a la Donte Whitner). There is the "Ralph is Cheap!" crowd, and then there is the "Why did we pay that much for...?" crowd. Often I think these crowds are one-in-the-same: perpetual complainers. When it come to Kelsay, I understand why the coaches love him. He is a hard worker, good with the media, an excellent locker-room guy, wants to be here, and shows up to play every Sunday. Aaron Schobel used to say that he got paid for what he did on Monday through Saturday and that what he did on Sundays he did for free. The difference, of course, is that Schobel was much more of an impact player than Kelsay has ever been. In a way, Kelsay reminds me of a favorite whipping boy from the past, Kurt Schulz -- who used to make an occasional play and was usually in the right position to make a play but always seemed to be just a step away. Part of the problem is that Kelsay has been playing out of position for the last 2 years, but even when he was playing his natural DE position, he was never an elite player. He's a guy that did everything reasonably well -- but really nothing exceptionally. Buddy pretty much said as much when the team signed Kelsay to the contract extension a couple of years ago. The truth of the matter is that for the first time in his career he is probably in the perfect situation -- playing as part of a rotation with higher profile guys like Williams/Anderson/Merriman (not to mention Dareus/Williams from the inside), who should demand most of the attention of opposing offenses. As a role player, which he is destined to be in 2012, (combined with all of the positive attributes that the coaches like) I am not sure why anyone would have a problem with his presence on the roster, especially since his existing contract is no longer that much of an issue.
eball Posted July 13, 2012 Author Posted July 13, 2012 From Chris Brown's "Fan Friday" today: Chris – Hoping you might post this “question” (and your response) in your “Fan Friday” blog on bb.com. I continually find fellow Bills fans bemoaning the presence of DE Chris Kelsay on the roster. Kelsay has become a lightning rod of sorts — many fans believe he has underperformed, they don’t understand why he was extended by Nix, and they feel as though he should be a roster cut. I’ve grown tired of defending him myself, so I hoped you could give the perspective of the organization as to why they believe Kelsay is a valuable piece of the puzzle. CB: I think the reason Chris Kelsay doesn’t garner the respect of some Bills fans is because they pigeon-holed him as a pass rusher. Kelsay is not a pass rusher by trade. He’s said it himself. He’s a well-rounded defensive end that when given an opportunity can log some sacks (see Week 16 vs. Denver last season). But his game is predicated on being good at everything. Not elite, but solid. His leadership both in his work ethic and what he says in that locker room carry weight as well. The fans with whom I’ve spoke over the years that aren’t a big fan of Kelsay’s, almost all of them say he doesn’t get enough sacks. I’m confident the misperception of him as a pass rusher from the time he came to the team in 2003 is where a lot of this disappointment in his game is rooted.
John from Riverside Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 for a 33 year old guy who has never had more than 5.5 sacks in a season, people seem to act like he is the second coming of Bruce Smith Its comments like that that make people look like idiots....seriously is that YOU valle?
Mr. WEO Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 So now it's down to Chris "Baghdad Bob" Brown to convine us of Kelsay's......"decentness"? Bumping your own thread after a month? End your crusade eball.
Zulu Cthulhu Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 So now it's down to Chris "Baghdad Bob" Brown to convine us of Kelsay's......"decentness"? Bumping your own thread after a month? End your crusade eball. Again in eball's Chris Brown quote I read buzz words like "leadership" and "work ethic" regarding CK. I'm surprised "high motor" wasn't tossed in as well for good measure. Very rarely do I see anything talking about actual "performance." If Brown's quote was accurate, and Kelsay was a well-rounded DE who just didn't get the sack numbers, I'd have no problem with him. But too often I see a CK that disappears for games at a time, a CK that gets blown out of plays off the snap and still, after 10 years in the NFL, still takes himself out of plays by taking undisciplined bad angles to the ball carrier and/or the QB.
San-O Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 Again in eball's Chris Brown quote I read buzz words like "leadership" and "work ethic" regarding CK. I'm surprised "high motor" wasn't tossed in as well for good measure. Very rarely do I see anything talking about actual "performance." High motor. If Brown's quote was accurate, and Kelsay was a well-rounded DE who just didn't get the sack numbers, I'd have no problem with him. But too often I see a CK that disappears for games at a time, a CK that gets blown out of plays off the snap and still, after 10 years in the NFL, still takes himself out of plays by taking undisciplined bad angles to the ball carrier and/or the QB. + 1 Bingo.
eball Posted July 13, 2012 Author Posted July 13, 2012 So now it's down to Chris "Baghdad Bob" Brown to convine us of Kelsay's......"decentness"? Bumping your own thread after a month? End your crusade eball. Was the post relevant or not?
mountainwampus Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 So he's not a pass rusher. He can't stop the run. What exactly does he do other than occupy an opposing Right Tackle? Well, he sacked Tebow a bunch. I think he drew 2 holding penalties last season. But other than that?
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