KD in CA Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 for a 33 year old guy who has never had more than 5.5 sacks in a season, people seem to act like he is the second coming of Bruce Smith No one here has ever suggested anything close to that; however occasionally people question the blithering idiots who constantly wonder why Kelsey isn't cut.
mrags Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 Kelsay, like most of his teammates, has been asked to play out of position for most of his career. Somewhere along the way, Kelsay's job (which he was painfully ill-equiped for) was to drop back into pass coverage...I really don't want a defense that asks D-line men to drop into pass coverage on a regular basis...it is a recipe for a defensive disaster. I blame poor schemes on this, as much as I do the players. I was with you up until this part. I do think Kelsey gets a bad rap. I wanted him jobless for years myself at times. But to say that he was playing out of position most of his career is a false. He has been the starting LDE for almost every year of his career. He had time as a backup and he had ONE season as OLB. That's about the only time he was out of position in his career. I do agree that was a mistake on the coaching and scheme. The amount of times Kelsey dropped back into coverage was probably on par with any other LDE in the league. There are defensive plays where the ends break out to cover the backs on a regular basis. Watch any teams highlights and you will notice this. The part I agree with here is that he shouldn't be asked to do this in a regular basis. He doesn't have the ability to cover fast, elusive backs and TEs on a regular basis. But that is your argument that he was asked to do something he's not good at. I can't disagree with that part. Just the part about him being out of position. I think that was incorrect.
SRivRoc Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 Seems like everyone is ripping on Kelsey for being old and since we've gotten rid of most of the old regime players in chan and nix's time people are wondering why not Kelsey, he obviously doesn't suck since he's stayed around, he'll be a good role player at DE for us and has been a loyal part of this franchise for years
Turbosrrgood Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Now I do agree that Mario at RDE and Kelsey at LDE would probably be the best starting DE team we could field. You are wrong. Mario is LDE and will be starting there. He has said it and I tend to believe the guy that is one of the best at his position in the NFL and just switched teams making the assumption that he will be LDE. Kelsey will be in on obvious running downs at RDE, splitting time with Mark Anderson who will be in on obvious passing Downs. My only concern is that, IF, Merriman gets healthy where he fits in. Probably RDE with Anderson and Kelsey backs up Mario. My guess is that Anderson, Kelsey, Merriman will be moved around alot. I agree with all of this, well said. The only thing is, I get the impression that the Bills have all but promised Williams he will be playing LDE. If that is the case, I think Kelsay will rotate in with him, since he is more suited to that side. Ideally, Anderson and Merriman would rotate around the RDE spot in that situation. I agree that on paper, Willams at RDE, and Kelsay at LDE would make the most sense. I'm more concerned about Anderson being counted on as a starter. He's really only had one year as a starter (5 years ago, and he wasn't very effective), other than that he has never started more than 2 games in a season. Last year he was a pass rush specialist only for the Pats. Despite the money, to expect Anderson to be a top quality starter is unrealistic based on what he has done his entire career. Edited May 30, 2012 by Turbosrrgood
biglukes Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 I agree with all of this, well said. The only thing is, I get the impression that the Bills have all but promised Williams he will be playing LDE. If that is the case, I think Kelsay will rotate in with him, since he is more suited to that side. Ideally, Anderson and Merriman would rotate around the RDE spot in that situation. I agree that on paper, Willams at RDE, and Kelsay at LDE would make the most sense. I'm more concerned about Anderson being counted on as a starter. he's really only had one year as a starter (5 years ago), other than that he has never started more than 2 games in a season. Last year he was a pass rush specialist only for the Pats. Take it for what it's worth considering it was just day one of mini camp but Mario was at LE, taking a few reps at RE, and Kelsay was starting at RE. Anderson worked mostly with the second teamers. So the insanely early look is that Kelsay is the early down guy with Anderson coming in for obvious passing situations. Of course all of this is subject to change 3,000 times between now and September 9.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 I think the whole 'bad rap' for Kelsay started when the Bills resigned him to an aggresive contract while letting other guys on D walk. P. William, Clements, D Wynfield. etc... Kelsay maybe was a little over paid. But he was a guy that the team liked. He is by no means a stud pass rusher or a beast in the run game. But instead he is a solid good football player. Which i think is exactly what Chan means. He will never take a play off, he works his butt off, and can play all three downs at end. He struggled at OLB in the 3-4 debacle, but that was not his fault. He is a DE in a 4-3. So yes, this year i think Kelsay gets to finally be what he should have been his entire career a 1&2nd down DE and then comes off the field for a pass rusher. Or if injuries mount up he provides a very good option for all 3 downs.
QCity Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 Honestly, I think he will generally be considered the starter at LDE being subbed out specifically in passing situations, will be good against the run (therein lies the "starter") and might have a career year for sacks (7). I agree with you except I think there's a good chance will be the starting RDE, subbed out in passing situations (we already heard from Wannstedt that Mario will line up at LDE). Kelsey is a very good player in a 4-man front when he can put his hand down. He took a lot of flak the last 2 years for when he was asked to play LB (that was a disaster). I don't think a lot of people realize the huge difference between being a full-time defensive lineman and a situational pass rusher. Mark Anderson's two best years (rookie season and last year) came when he was a situational pass rusher. In his five years as a starter he was an average DE that never tallied more than 5 sacks a season.
Meathead Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 lets be honest, there are lots of people around that need something to unload their animosity on. if there isnt an obvious target, they will simply create one. ask most of my gfs in my life. professional sports attract an inordinately high percentage of these kinds of people kelsay had the unfortunate curse to be a) on this team the whole decade of suckitude; 3) got a too big contract extension from marv levy, and ¶) he accepted a trial at olb where he failed miserably in open space and created a lasting image of letting rb/tes run free for big plays. thus he got the attention and became the default face of the crappy no-playoff franchise to a lot of people truth is, he is what many of us know he is - a very solid but unspectacular player who (when playing de) does everything pretty well, makes very few mistakes, and is a terrific lockerroom/field presence and a great team ambassador the reality is if he was playing opposite bruce smith and on some of the great defenses of the early 90's he would BE phil hansen. people remember hansen as a lot better than he really was because he was on memorable teams. people think of kelsay a lot worse than he is because he was on some really forgettable teams #truth
MDH Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 for a 33 year old guy who has never had more than 5.5 sacks in a season, people seem to act like he is the second coming of Bruce Smith I think you've got this backwards, people get bent out of of shape about him because he's not the second coming of Bruce Smith. He's a very solid player, the kind of guy teams need lots of. He's not a star and never will be but people love to say he "sucks" because he's not a game changer.
San-O Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 He has been one of the weakest D players on one of the worst defenses in the NFL, two years running. I guess he's good, they're paying him good, and Chan says so.
mountainwampus Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 I would have kept Hargrove. He might not be as nice a guy as Kelsay, but he hits harder and makes big plays.
Thirty Year Fan Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 I'm somewhere in the middle. Yes, I wanted him cut years ago, but he's still here and could be an asset this year. He always made a decent back-up for Denney. I just don't think he ever deserved to be a starter and he was slightly over-paid. I'd be fine with him as a back-up till he retires. My two cents Chris is a maddening player he has one or two monster games a year then goes over the falls for a month in a half. But with that said he loves the bills and the town, and is that bring your lunch pal to work great locker room guy you have to root for!
Stenbar Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 I cant wait for another season of laughing at him get suckered in on every reverse or bootleg thrown at him...He definately provides comic relief....Im up for another season of it....
Turbosrrgood Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) He has been one of the weakest D players on one of the worst defenses in the NFL, two years running. I guess he's good, they're paying him good, and Chan says so. Gee you must be right, guys like Batten, Moats, White, Sheppard, McKelvin, Florence, Dwan Edwards, Kellen Heard, and Spencer Johnson really were carrying the team... Despite the fact that Kelsay was the only one other than Dareus to get any sort of pressure on the QB, he was obviously the sole reason the Bills D was bad last year. Clearly with all of that dominating talent on the team, and defensive coaching guru like Edwards at the helm, Kelsay was the one guy holding the entire team back... It all makes sense now... To say Kelsay was one of the weakest players on the defense last year is just asinine, and really makes me question whether you actually watched any of the games or not... Edited May 30, 2012 by Turbosrrgood
RuntheDamnBall Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 To all those who rip on Kelsay, let me ask: CK has been with the Bills since 2003. In that 9 years, when have you ever felt the Bills coaching staff (particularly on defense) knows what the hell they are doing? Kelsay, like most of his teammates, has been asked to play out of position for most of his career. Somewhere along the way, Kelsay's job (which he was painfully ill-equiped for) was to drop back into pass coverage...I really don't want a defense that asks D-line men to drop into pass coverage on a regular basis...it is a recipe for a defensive disaster. I blame poor schemes on this, as much as I do the players. aaaaand a whole lot of THIS.^^^^ Who brings a lunch pail to work? I think Justin Bannan does. Kyle Williams skips the pail and just brings a giant hunk of granite and chews on it.
Billsrhody Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 I dont get why people hate on Kelsay... what has he done wrong?
BillsWatch Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 he would not say he is good. he is above average at best. I'll take Chan's opinion above yours.
Jauronimo Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 One thing is for sure: Kelsay is polarizing. Half of Bills fans love him. The other half wanted him cut years ago. I don't think the fans are this split on any other player. Perhaps Fitz? Because Kelsay was a 2nd round pick, some expected him to be a hall of famer (See Poz). When he failed to live up to these ridiculous expectations, the resentment started. Kelsay will never be mistaken for a Pro-Bowler, but hes still a solid DE and was a reliable starter for many years (at DE). Were he a 5th round pick, people would love him and he would be showered with adulation for being the consummate professional (never griping, lining up where ever he is asked to play, and accepting his new diminished role with grace). Why fans cannot separate their over zealous expectations from the results on the field is a mystery.
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