Lurker Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Look up the phrase "straw man" in the dictionary and you'll get the OP as the definition...
Rex Ryan's Stomach Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Yeah the Pats two best players on offense are horrible considering where they were drafted. (Brady 6th/Welker UDFA)
Dat Dude Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 If you're only looking at where a player came from in regards to judging their talent then this post is barely worth responding to.
sllib olaffub Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Truly - if you worry what the media thinks then that fits with the entirety of the post. The media, as Buddy Nix is often pointing out, knows nothing about how the NFL really operates. Go look on any of the best NFL rosters and you'll see players who are probowlers, or close to it, who came from nowhere, were F.A.'s, or were low round draft picks. As for Gailey - he has a losing record with Buffalo, but the method Nix has used in building the team has been methodical, but slow. Nix hasn't really put much into this team but defensive draft picks until this year, using the first two years to judge the talent already on this team. However, Gailey performed well in Dallas, and has a good record with offenses and with QB's. Wannstedt has a lot going for him as a D.C. Part of this team's charm and appeal to fans is that many of the players were overlooked elsewhere. They had to come to Buffalo to get a fair shot - but once they did, some of them - not all of them - ended up being worthy of playing. Really, the difference between these players, the starters and second stringers, is often so little that an uneducated eye would not notice it. Add to that one player might play good in one system and not another, and you have a Bills team that is, I think, full of a good mix of high round selections, veterans, and many young, hungry, talented guys. Sure, there are unknowns and no-names, but when they go out and win 10 or 11 games this year, that post is going to look awfully deliberately biased.
Formerly Allan in MD Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 I think this is the most pessimistic post I have ever read by a fan. He uses whatever round someone was drafted in, be it first or seventh or whatever, as a criticism. Somehow free agency also makes someone suspect, like Freddy, "another free agent pickup who starts..." Put a little cream in your coffee, pal! He's totally starstruck. I guess we need to bring back Mike Williams and Walt Patulski to make it work.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 No, he doesn't. I can get the consternation if he was in fact saying those things from his own point of view. It's quite obvious though that he is referring to what he thinks the National Media, as a whole, thinks when they look at the Bills Offense. I can see where the OP is trying to put himself in the shoes of a media pundit and see what he sees. But every post that followed simply bashed him because they assumed that he was posting his own thoughts. Look at it this way. I don't really follow other teams outside of the AFC east so if I attempted to assess how good a team on the west coast looked, my observations might be very similar to how the OP describes "how the media thinks of the Bills offense". Seems to me the heat is getting to people or something and they are getting a bit irritable. Look, Rock, I didn't, myself, refer to this guy as a "troll", and responded with the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand, you, John from Hemet, and others who take this guy seriously and rebuke others for calling him a "troll", might consider a few observations. 1. the title of the post says nothing about "media" or the media's opinion. It is the attention-grabbing "Big Problems with Bills Offense". Why is that, if the sincere intent is to put oneself in the shoes of a media pundit and express one's perception of the media viewpoint rather than one's own opinion? However, it is classic "Troll Tactics" 2. There is no reference or links to any media opinions of Chan and the Bills Offense. If you're serious about assessing media opinion, wouldn't you start there? I thought so....but a Troll, of course, wouldn't. 3. The media opinion presented is entirely focused on draft round and how a player was acquired. I have never seen media focus on a guy's draft position to the exclusion of on-field performance. Usually the media comments on a guy's on-field performance and tags on something about above or below expectations for his draft position. This is either ignorant or credulous - or again, a classic Trolling tactic. 4. The post contains provocative, over-the top negative comments about Bills personnel that contravene actual comments found in the media. For a guy who claims interest in the media, the post is either woefully ignorant of what the media actually says - or employing the bait-n-switch, provacateur tactics of the troll. 5. The post omits key starters Levitre and Wood...who happen to score highly in the "Draft Round" category that is being used to rate players. Omitting anything that contradicts the theme - classic Troll Tactics. 6. The claim is impression of the media but alleged fan opinion (opinions known on the board to be polarizing and elicit response) is referenced twice. If you're seriously trying to represent your ideas of media opinion, why mix in your impression of fan opinion?. But if you're trying to elicit a response, it's that added little fillip - should I say it - classic Troll. So yeah, I'll say it. I appreciate a viewpoint that tries to be positive and give people the benefit of the doubt, and you and John from Hemet do appear a little naive or credulous in your assessment of this post. One or two of these things might indicate that someone is serious but misguided. All 6 - TROLL.
Wayne Cubed Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 QB ... Tom Brady... A 6th round draft pick who starts, OMG are you kidding me QB ... Brian Hoyer... free agent pickup, most likely cause no one else wanted him, OMG are you kidding QB ... Ryan Mallet... OMG are you kidding?!? RB ... Steven Ridley... A 3rd round pickup who starts.. RB ... Joseph Addai ... A first round pick who has done nothing lately FB.... Spencer Larson .. Didn't touch the ball once last year and only had 4 tackles... TE ... Rob Gronkowski... Another 2nd rd pick... slow WR ... Wes Welker ... A free agent pick considered their #1 receiver WR ... Brandon Lloyd .... a 4th round pick going into his 9th year and has had 1 great year(2010), maybe the #2 receiver WR ... Anthony Gonzalez .... been on IR 2 out of the 4 years in the league WR ... Deion Branch ... Another 2nd round pick WR ... Julian Edelman .... Picked in the 7th round but could have been a free agent OL ... Nate Solder .... A 2nd year LT, who played RT mostly last year OL ... Dan Koppen .. A 5th round pick OL ... Sebastian Vollmer...... Another 2nd rd pick OL ... Brian Waters ... Another free agent See what I did there?
billsfan in n.h Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 The National Media says next to Nothing about the Buffalo Bills Offense... have you noticed? Here is what I believe they see when they look at the leadership and roster.... The head coach and offensive coordinator Chan Gailey... A big time loser with the Bills... His won lost record proves it... He has bounced around from team to team... Even when Ralph Wilson chose him as head coach the Bills fans were not in favor of his hiring... Many wanted Shanahan now with Washington... Gailey has a lot to prove. QB... Ryan Fitzpatrick ... Picked up as a free agent... Bills fans believe he is better as a backup than as a starter... He was a 7th round pick... Bills management is putting to much faith in a losing QB... QB ... Vince Young.. Backup QB...Picked up by the Bills because no one else wanted him... Most likely washed up QB ... Tyler Thigper... OMG are you kidding RB ... Freddy Jackson... Another free agent pickup who starts.. RB ... C.J. Spiller ... A first round pick who has done litte and could be a bust FB.... Corey McIntrey .. Only touched the ball 4 times last year... TE ... Scott Chandler... Another free agent pick up no other team wanted... slow WR ... Stevie Johnson ... A 7th round pick considered their #1 receiver WR ... Marcus Easley .... a 4th round pick going into his 3rd year and never seen the field, maybe the #2 receiver WR ... David Nelson .... Another free agent WR ... Donald Jones ... Another free agent WR ... T.J. Graham .... Picked in the 3rd round but could have been a 7th round pick OL ... Corey Glenn .... A rookie LT OL ... Chris Hairston .. A 4th round pick OL ... Kraig Urbik...... Another free agent OL ... Chad Reinhart ... Another free agent OL ... Eric Pears ...... Another free agent Then we have Brad Smith... What is he a WR, RB, QB, Special teamer? Bills are even not sure... Where is the Talent to get this squad to the playoffs? And we the media are to believe with this motley crew they will make the playoffs ? are you kidding ? But when you ask Bills fans, many believe they are on the right track, as do I and this so called motley crew will preform to playoff standards... Do you? and why do you Believe.......??? hear the Jags are looking for fans
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Look, Rock, I didn't, myself, refer to this guy as a "troll", and responded with the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand, you, John from Hemet, and others who take this guy seriously and rebuke others for calling him a "troll", might consider a few observations. 1. the title of the post says nothing about "media" or the media's opinion. It is the attention-grabbing "Big Problems with Bills Offense". Why is that, if the sincere intent is to put oneself in the shoes of a media pundit and express one's perception of the media viewpoint rather than one's own opinion? However, it is classic "Troll Tactics" 2. There is no reference or links to any media opinions of Chan and the Bills Offense. If you're serious about assessing media opinion, wouldn't you start there? I thought so....but a Troll, of course, wouldn't. 3. The media opinion presented is entirely focused on draft round and how a player was acquired. I have never seen media focus on a guy's draft position to the exclusion of on-field performance. Usually the media comments on a guy's on-field performance and tags on something about above or below expectations for his draft position. This is either ignorant or credulous - or again, a classic Trolling tactic. 4. The post contains provocative, over-the top negative comments about Bills personnel that contravene actual comments found in the media. For a guy who claims interest in the media, the post is either woefully ignorant of what the media actually says - or employing the bait-n-switch, provacateur tactics of the troll. 5. The post omits key starters Levitre and Wood...who happen to score highly in the "Draft Round" category that is being used to rate players. Omitting anything that contradicts the theme - classic Troll Tactics. 6. The claim is impression of the media but alleged fan opinion (opinions known on the board to be polarizing and elicit response) is referenced twice. If you're seriously trying to represent your ideas of media opinion, why mix in your impression of fan opinion?. But if you're trying to elicit a response, it's that added little fillip - should I say it - classic Troll. So yeah, I'll say it. I appreciate a viewpoint that tries to be positive and give people the benefit of the doubt, and you and John from Hemet do appear a little naive or credulous in your assessment of this post. One or two of these things might indicate that someone is serious but misguided. All 6 - TROLL. haha--I love the troll analysis!! You may have swayed my view of the OP.
Bills!Win! Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 The Bills have more talent than Cincinatti. But the Bengals made the playoffs. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
Gray Beard Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) I think people are missing the point. The OP is trying to say that for many of the talking heads in the media, the Buffalo Bills looks like a team of late round picks and cast-offs. Not much to expect out of a team like that. The fans and the people who actually do a little research realize that this team is going to be better on the field than they look on paper. Kind of like the opposite of last year's Eagles "Dream Team". Edited May 28, 2012 by Gray Beard
Just in Atlanta Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Never have seen so many people on this board miss a point. Wow. Love the headline analysis too. Vegas, and much of the sports punditry elite, has this team last or third in the AFC East. Read before you blast. I also believe this motley crew--and it is a motley crew--will perform to playoff standards. Why? They're in the third year of a planned system with little turnover and great additions. It's also our year.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 I think people are missing the point. The OP is trying to say that for many of the talking heads in the media, the Buffalo Bills looks like a team of late round picks and cast-offs. Not much to expect out of a team like that. The fans and the people who actually do a little research realize that this team is going to be better on the field than they look on paper. Kind of like the opposite of last year's Eagles "Dream Team". Except that none of the talking heads in the media are in fact, expressing the views imputed to them by the OP, nor the over-the-top negative comments. If you disagree, kindly share links? The Bills finished slightly above average on offense, and got big production out of some of those late round or UDFA, and the media articles I've seen appear to recognize that. See "troll analysis" posted elsewhere. The Bills have more talent than Cincinatti. But the Bengals made the playoffs. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. Bridge you want, your own to inhabit. Most excellent try. Never have seen so many people on this board miss a point. Wow. Love the headline analysis too. Vegas, and much of the sports punditry elite, has this team last or third in the AFC East. Links to said sports punditry elite showing Bills last or third in the AFC east? Vegas, I grant.
Beerball Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 The Bills have more talent than Cincinatti. But the Bengals made the playoffs. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. So the Bills didn't play hard last season?
Rockinon Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Look, Rock, I didn't, myself, refer to this guy as a "troll", and responded with the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand, you, John from Hemet, and others who take this guy seriously and rebuke others for calling him a "troll", might consider a few observations. 1. the title of the post says nothing about "media" or the media's opinion. It is the attention-grabbing "Big Problems with Bills Offense". Why is that, if the sincere intent is to put oneself in the shoes of a media pundit and express one's perception of the media viewpoint rather than one's own opinion? However, it is classic "Troll Tactics" 2. There is no reference or links to any media opinions of Chan and the Bills Offense. If you're serious about assessing media opinion, wouldn't you start there? I thought so....but a Troll, of course, wouldn't. 3. The media opinion presented is entirely focused on draft round and how a player was acquired. I have never seen media focus on a guy's draft position to the exclusion of on-field performance. Usually the media comments on a guy's on-field performance and tags on something about above or below expectations for his draft position. This is either ignorant or credulous - or again, a classic Trolling tactic. 4. The post contains provocative, over-the top negative comments about Bills personnel that contravene actual comments found in the media. For a guy who claims interest in the media, the post is either woefully ignorant of what the media actually says - or employing the bait-n-switch, provacateur tactics of the troll. 5. The post omits key starters Levitre and Wood...who happen to score highly in the "Draft Round" category that is being used to rate players. Omitting anything that contradicts the theme - classic Troll Tactics. 6. The claim is impression of the media but alleged fan opinion (opinions known on the board to be polarizing and elicit response) is referenced twice. If you're seriously trying to represent your ideas of media opinion, why mix in your impression of fan opinion?. But if you're trying to elicit a response, it's that added little fillip - should I say it - classic Troll. So yeah, I'll say it. I appreciate a viewpoint that tries to be positive and give people the benefit of the doubt, and you and John from Hemet do appear a little naive or credulous in your assessment of this post. One or two of these things might indicate that someone is serious but misguided. All 6 - TROLL. Look, all I have said is that the responses to this guy's original post have been an over reaction and that the criticism has been harsh. The fact that you have put more effort into defending the criticism here than the OP did in his original post just goes to show how hard it is for you to actually give someone the benefit of the doubt. This whole thread doesn't even deserve the amount of attention it has gotten but the determination here to get the last word in is nauseating. You guys are beating a dead horse. The guy hasn't even come back to follow up on his post and remark on what anyone has had to say. I'd say you you are the naive one here. Life is too short to be taking stuff so seriously. That can be said of the OP too. There, I criticized the OP too but I didn't go on to call the guy a troll or try to insult the guys intelligence(not that I actually am saying you personally called him a troll. I don't believe that I did any such thing.) Seriously, it's Memorial Day. I have some things to do today and my time isn't going to be spent here trying to get people to lighten up. I'm going to a Memorial service and read aloud about the meaning of Memorial Day to large gathering. Then I'm going to be a part of cooking up some hamburgers and hotdogs and spend some time with some fellow veterans. Signing off for now. Hope you guys actually take some time to remember what today is all about and get off of this board for a while too. By my reckoning, some of you could use the time off.
Just in Atlanta Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Except that none of the talking heads in the media are in fact, expressing the views imputed to them by the OP, nor the over-the-top negative comments. If you disagree, kindly share links? The Bills finished slightly above average on offense, and got big production out of some of those late round or UDFA, and the media articles I've seen appear to recognize that. See "troll analysis" posted elsewhere. Bridge you want, your own to inhabit. Most excellent try. Links to said sports punditry elite showing Bills last or third in the AFC east? Vegas, I grant. Here. And here for starters. I'll let you Google Vegas odds.
mrags Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Tom Brady 7th round pick Wes Welker undrafted OMG!!!!! Wes Wlker was not only undrafted, he was also a FA pickup by the Pats and he bounced around to other teams as well. The world really is going to end in 2012. Were all DOOMED.........DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!
K-9 Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 OMG!!!!! Wes Wlker was not only undrafted, he was also a FA pickup by the Pats and he bounced around to other teams as well. The world really is going to end in 2012. Were all DOOMED.........DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!! Just as a matter of clarification, the Pats* traded 2nd and 7th round picks to Miami for Welker. But your larger point is a good one. GO BILLS!!!
Just in Atlanta Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Since so many people are piling on this guy, I'd thought I'd join the fray. Owen: Your post, for the most part, is spot on. You are no troll. However, your punctuation--capitalization in particular--needs serious work.
Magox Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 The justifications from your perspective for disqualifying them was because of where they were drafted?
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