Only in America

[3rdnlng]

Ok, you're now on record.

 

That's like reviving a thread with a smiley face. Sure, I really wanted to click on the thread and stroll down and see that there's been one post since I last looked, and its

[BiggieScooby]

Sure, its important, but its not your inalienable right to receive tertiary education. You are free to do so, and even encouraged through tax incentives and corporate policies which promote higher education, but you are by no means entitled to a graduate degree.

 

If someone scores well from an accredited university, and performs well on the entrance exam and they show a financial need than certainly they should be given the loans to graduate. Very few graduate degrees default on their loans.

 

My issue is with the "for profit" businesses like University of Phoenix, & Virginina College. So many of their students are not qualified. Many students are "sold" by their "admissions counselors aka salespeople & taught how to get government student loans. My problem is these university's by and large result in 90% of the federal student loan defaults. So in essence the buck stops with the Federal Student Loans these kids are getting for their "unaccredited" or below merit degree's. Many don't finish and many who do do not have the skills their diplomas claim they have. This is another government institution getting ripped off by greedy private for profit business in the veil of higher education.

Edited May 23, 2012 by BiggieScooby

[3rdnlng]

If someone scores well from an accredited university, and performs well on the entrance exam and they show a financial need than certainly they should be given the loans to graduate. Very few graduate degrees default on their loans.

 

My issue is with the "for profit" businesses like University of Phoenix, & Virginina College. So many of their students are not qualified. Many students are "sold" by their "admissions counselors aka salespeople & taught how to get government student loans. My problem is these university's by and large result in 90% of the federal student loan defaults. So in essence the buck stops with the Federal Student Loans these kids are getting for their "unaccredited" or below merit degree's. Many don't finish and many who do do not have the skills their diplomas claim they have. This is another government institution getting ripped off by greedy private for profit business in the veil of higher education.

 

Any links for statements like 90% of the student loan defaults are caused by "Phoenix" type students? Do you have any clue as to why there are more and more student loan defaults? Do you think that lower interest rates on student loans are a good thing? Have you ever heard of unintended consequences?

[BiggieScooby]

Any links for statements like 90% of the student loan defaults are caused by "Phoenix" type students? Do you have any clue as to why there are more and more student loan defaults? Do you think that lower interest rates on student loans are a good thing? Have you ever heard of unintended consequences?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704709304576124280473684142.html

 

That's a Murdoch outfit reporting on for profit paying off Loans to keep default rates down. Can you say ponzi scheme?

 

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/02/04/142406/for-profits-data/?mobile=wp

Actually for profit students account for 11% of college level education 26% of federal student loans and 44% of the defaults. That's a huge number in any regard.

 

Do you have a clue why there are more student loan defaults? I have my reasons.

 

Lower rates on student loans like lower rates for mortgages can help support an entire sector of our economy from collapse.

 

If you raise rates you run the risk of excerbating defaults.

 

Have you heard of Murphy's law?

Edited May 23, 2012 by BiggieScooby

[Jauronimo]

If someone scores well from an accredited university, and performs well on the entrance exam and they show a financial need than certainly they should be given the loans to graduate. Very few graduate degrees default on their loans.

 

My issue is with the "for profit" businesses like University of Phoenix, & Virginina College. So many of their students are not qualified. Many students are "sold" by their "admissions counselors aka salespeople & taught how to get government student loans. My problem is these university's by and large result in 90% of the federal student loan defaults. So in essence the buck stops with the Federal Student Loans these kids are getting for their "unaccredited" or below merit degree's. Many don't finish and many who do do not have the skills their diplomas claim they have. This is another government institution getting ripped off by greedy private for profit business in the veil of higher education.

What does this have to do with anything that I've posted?

[BiggieScooby]

What does this have to do with anything that I've posted?

 

Since you asked me why folks think they are "entitled" to a graduate degree, I figured I'd bring up higher education information that I feel is relevant. The topic is totally different but I digress.

[Reed83HOF]

What has led you to believe that attending graduate school is a basic human right? Where in the constitution are you guaranteed a certain lifestyle?

 

I hesitate to use the term entitlement, since a questionable PPP participant has adopted the word as his rallying cry, but your post is emblematic of what I view as an entitlement society. When you blur the lines between certain freedoms or government programs and your basic rights as a citizen, where does it end? I believe most of the social programs you listed are pretty good on margin and should be funded as they are in the best interest of the government and its citizens, but you and I have no right to these programs. Education, to a point, is in the best interest of this nation or any nation as it supports long term economic growth, but it is not your inalienable right. Just like home ownership, while posing many benefits to our society, is not your right either, its a freedom. You are free to go to grad school and you are free to own a home. Recent history suggests that viewing the two as rights does not end well.

 

Theres a big distinction between programs our government should support and your basic rights as a citizen. We should focus on whether these social programs will deliver the intended benefits to both government and citizens and are worthy of funding. Our rights were clearly laid out by our founding fathers, and the list is pretty good.

 

I never mentioned a lifestyle.

 

I never said graduate school, by tertiary I was referring to post secondary-education (Vocational training up through up to Bachelors Degree). For graduate school; if you have the smarts and can meet the admissions requirements by all means, it should be provided, but again for those who meet the criteria.

 

Everyone wants to hop on the economy and jobs, jobs, jobs; but the fact is education is required for some of them. It has nothing to do with lifestyle, but yet it has A LOT to do with our ability as a country to compete. Our current education system sucks and honestly, the youth is less and less prepared each passing year. Students are being taught to pass tests instead of to think and reason. In order for this country to be able to compete, we need to have citizens who employ skills at all levels - from janitors to rocket scientists. One of the requisites for attracting businesses is to have qualified individuals for the positions. In order for a country to be able to complete in a global economy for jobs, you need to have a skilled and educated workforce at all levels. There are other countries (IIRC Italy is one - also requires males under 45 to serve on the military) around the globe that cover tuition (although the individual may be required to pay applicable taxes). Again (and obviously), there would have to be requirements to make sure you are making satisfactory progress towards your degree to continue on...

 

My view on the constitution is that yeah it is a good document, but you also have to realize that it was written 200+ years ago; things have changed a lot since then. Where we are as a country/society today is actually kind of sad. Repubs and Dems both have the +'s and -'s; but generally when the two work together, they at least used to make some good progress. I think everyone wants the USA to be the best that it can be; but we aren't the only leader anymore. The rest of the world has caught up to us as saying no to slavery; freedom of religion and etc - core ideals that we were founded on. They have surpassed us in some ways as well. The industrial revolution and the technological revolution has transformed this country into something very different. After spending 13 years of my post bachelors degree life working in various management positions (within Manufacturing and International Trade) - one thing we need to look at as a country is looking at the best practices of other governments around the world and seeing how their programs might be a fit here. See what their pluses and minuses are and model some of our social/entitlement programs after them; there is no need to reinvent the wheel; such as healthcare.

 

My right to these programs is through my taxes. It is also my right to criticize how the government spends my tax revenue and to make my voice heard.

 

I strongly disagree with expanding the budget or even keeping the budget levels for Defense spending. I can't recall the specific number , but it is like the next 15 countries below us combined don't spend what we spend annually on defense. I would say that is overkill. I also have numerous former colleagues and employees working for the Accounting arm of the Defense Department. Come the last 2 months of the fiscal year, all bases scramble to use all budgeted funds otherwise they lose them (this happens in almost every private business as well). The invoices are piles high of flat screen tvs, snow blowing equipment, etc in massive quantities. It all adds up and should be better controlled and the funds should be allocated to more needing programs. The fact is no other country has the military might to overtake us (if you say China, hopefully their military equipment is the same quality as the **** they sell in Walmart). Where we will get killed is on the global marketplace. We need to have a healthy and educated workforce ready and able to go better than our competitors. After you put your time in (your career) you should be taken care of so you can slow down in those later stages of life. There should be a means test for SS as well. No need to pay benefits out to those who were lucky and have pensions or a healthy enough 401K. Welfare and unemployment should be there to catch you when you fall, but not for a crutch to be lazy in life. I also think that funding for the arts is overrated and unnecessary. If people want the symphonies in their area then they should support it through donations - that isn't a right that should be subsidized. Don't even get me started on charitable donations to religious groups. Basic rights as citizens should be the overall welfare of our country and its citizens. We should have free speech and free control over our own bodies and minds, etc.

 

For funding the government and living our lives as citizens, we do have the right to knowing that when we get old and are no longer to work, we are repaid(if you will) for our contributions to this country, that if we are ill we will get taken care of and not have to incur crushing medical bills, we should have access to education to enable us to be as intelligent as we can be to allow for this country to compete in the global marketplace. More educated citizens tend to be more well behaved anyways. The Iraq war was also a crock of **** and waste of taxpayer money. With Afghanistan if we were smart we would have taken lessons from the Russians and stayed the hell out of there as well. To go a bit further, I also am against the government bailing out corporations and if they fail they fail. However, through turning a blind-eye and poor regulation from both sides, banks were allowed to be too big to fail - they should be broken up, regulations should be in place to ensure it doesn't happen again - end of story. GM and Chrysler are interesting, in normal circumstances they should have been allowed to fail; however with the job losses that occurred the ramifications of these companies failing would have really crippled our economy and added even more catastrophic job loss and depression; as it impacts a ton of suppliers as well. While I support and want a national healthcare system; it is dumb to attempt it when we did. To get the true system we should have, would cause the insurance industry to shed numerous jobs and add to deepening the recession.

 

end rant

 

And FYI - Obama is a colossal disappointment.

Edited May 23, 2012 by reed83 4th Rounder

[MARCELL DAREUS POWER]

I never mentioned a lifestyle.

 

I never said graduate school, by tertiary I was referring to post secondary-education (Vocational training up through up to Bachelors Degree). For graduate school; if you have the smarts and can meet the admissions requirements by all means, it should be provided, but again for those who meet the criteria.

 

Everyone wants to hop on the economy and jobs, jobs, jobs; but the fact is education is required for some of them. It has nothing to do with lifestyle, but yet it has A LOT to do with our ability as a country to compete. Our current education system sucks and honestly, the youth is less and less prepared each passing year. Students are being taught to pass tests instead of to think and reason. In order for this country to be able to compete, we need to have citizens who employ skills at all levels - from janitors to rocket scientists. One of the requisites for attracting businesses is to have qualified individuals for the positions. In order for a country to be able to complete in a global economy for jobs, you need to have a skilled and educated workforce at all levels. There are other countries (IIRC Italy is one - also requires males under 45 to serve on the military) around the globe that cover tuition (although the individual may be required to pay applicable taxes). Again (and obviously), there would have to be requirements to make sure you are making satisfactory progress towards your degree to continue on...

 

My view on the constitution is that yeah it is a good document, but you also have to realize that it was written 200+ years ago; things have changed a lot since then. Where we are as a country/society today is actually kind of sad. Repubs and Dems both have the +'s and -'s; but generally when the two work together, they at least used to make some good progress. I think everyone wants the USA to be the best that it can be; but we aren't the only leader anymore. The rest of the world has caught up to us as saying no to slavery; freedom of religion and etc - core ideals that we were founded on. They have surpassed us in some ways as well. The industrial revolution and the technological revolution has transformed this country into something very different. After spending 13 years of my post bachelors degree life working in various management positions (within Manufacturing and International Trade) - one thing we need to look at as a country is looking at the best practices of other governments around the world and seeing how their programs might be a fit here. See what their pluses and minuses are and model some of our social/entitlement programs after them; there is no need to reinvent the wheel; such as healthcare.

 

My right to these programs is through my taxes. It is also my right to criticize how the government spends my tax revenue and to make my voice heard.

 

I strongly disagree with expanding the budget or even keeping the budget levels for Defense spending. I can't recall the specific number , but it is like the next 15 countries below us combined don't spend what we spend annually on defense. I would say that is overkill. I also have numerous former colleagues and employees working for the Accounting arm of the Defense Department. Come the last 2 months of the fiscal year, all bases scramble to use all budgeted funds otherwise they lose them (this happens in almost every private business as well). The invoices are piles high of flat screen tvs, snow blowing equipment, etc in massive quantities. It all adds up and should be better controlled and the funds should be allocated to more needing programs. The fact is no other country has the military might to overtake us (if you say China, hopefully their military equipment is the same quality as the **** they sell in Walmart). Where we will get killed is on the global marketplace. We need to have a healthy and educated workforce ready and able to go better than our competitors. After you put your time in (your career) you should be taken care of so you can slow down in those later stages of life. There should be a means test for SS as well. No need to pay benefits out to those who were lucky and have pensions or a healthy enough 401K. Welfare and unemployment should be there to catch you when you fall, but not for a crutch to be lazy in life. I also think that funding for the arts is overrated and unnecessary. If people want the symphonies in their area then they should support it through donations - that isn't a right that should be subsidized. Don't even get me started on charitable donations to religious groups. Basic rights as citizens should be the overall welfare of our country and its citizens. We should have free speech and free control over our own bodies and minds, etc.

 

For funding the government and living our lives as citizens, we do have the right to knowing that when we get old and are no longer to work, we are repaid(if you will) for our contributions to this country, that if we are ill we will get taken care of and not have to incur crushing medical bills, we should have access to education to enable us to be as intelligent as we can be to allow for this country to compete in the global marketplace. More educated citizens tend to be more well behaved anyways. The Iraq war was also a crock of **** and waste of taxpayer money. With Afghanistan if we were smart we would have taken lessons from the Russians and stayed the hell out of there as well. To go a bit further, I also am against the government bailing out corporations and if they fail they fail. However, through turning a blind-eye and poor regulation from both sides, banks were allowed to be too big to fail - they should be broken up, regulations should be in place to ensure it doesn't happen again - end of story. GM and Chrysler are interesting, in normal circumstances they should have been allowed to fail; however with the job losses that occurred the ramifications of these companies failing would have really crippled our economy and added even more catastrophic job loss and depression; as it impacts a ton of suppliers as well. While I support and want a national healthcare system; it is dumb to attempt it when we did. To get the true system we should have, would cause the insurance industry to shed numerous jobs and add to deepening the recession.

 

end rant

 

And FYI - Obama is a colossal disappointment.

 

 

this is such a great point. you cant tell people to go get a job or move out of your parents house if there is no work or people cant meet the qualifications. on one hand you are telling people to be self-reliant, and then you are not providing education...

 

[3rdnlng]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704709304576124280473684142.html

 

That's a Murdoch outfit reporting on for profit paying off Loans to keep default rates down. Can you say ponzi scheme?

 

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/02/04/142406/for-profits-data/?mobile=wp

Actually for profit students account for 11% of college level education 26% of federal student loans and 44% of the defaults. That's a huge number in any regard.

 

Do you have a clue why there are more student loan defaults? I have my reasons.

 

Lower rates on student loans like lower rates for mortgages can help support an entire sector of our economy from collapse.

 

If you raise rates you run the risk of excerbating defaults.

 

Have you heard of Murphy's law?

 

You cherry-picked info and it still didn't equal your statement that 90% of all defaults are caused by students from "for profit" schools. Regardless, when anyone can get a cheap student loan, more will attend college. That means a lessor percentage of motivated students. Also, colleges and universities won't have the motivation to keep tuition under control. That is the unintended consequences of cheap student loan money available to anyone.