Bain Capital - GST Steel - Obamas Commercial

[IDBillzFan]

Well I guess that's what I am then.

 

Cory Booker was nauseated at the tone of Presidential politics (coming from both sides) IMO and I didn't even think what he said was all that controversial when I watched it live.

What he said was spot on, and he put himself in the GOP crosshairs when he went from being honest and independent to being yet another in a long line of people afraid to do anything other than what Obama's staff tells him to do.

 

He tarnished himself. The GOP story is simply progressives trying to limit the embarrassing truth of how quickly progressives will cave to Obama.

[dayman]

How was it botched?

 

My link

 

Reasonable people can disagree how this will work itself politically. But this is my opinion. As I said above, to me he expressed his general concerns about the toilet bowl that the presidential election is...and specifically mentioned that he didn't like the type tone and manner that ads that have gone after Bain took (nor the Rev. Wright stuff).

 

Now he's come out and really clarified that point (I really didn't think it was that unclear to begin with watching live but I guess the internet [both sides] disagreed). He's also pointed out that he thinks it was an absolute mistake to equate questioning how Romney's experience leading Bain translates into being the POTUS w/ Rev. Wright...I know some here may disagree (sadly) but Rev. Wright stuff is retarded and having that sort of thing somehow equated with Bain is a good thing for the GOP (my opinion).

 

It's sort of transparent the way they are trying to use him and he said himself it pissed him off and he's actually going to work harder for Obama now. So that's not really a positive.

 

Additionally, the whole thing helps the Obama campaign fine-tune/focus/frame his examination of Bain (Romney's main argument for himself since he can't rely on his record as Governor as he had to pivot away from much of that) early on...I think allowing it to remain as sloppy as possible and continue on the path that it may have been on (and the path all the GOP primary candidates took) would have helped him.

[dayman]

Edit: I mean to put it as simply as I can...IMO following this the Obama campaign will have messaging on this subject that is less likely to turn off independent voters. To me, the GOP was better off having them do what they may have otherwise done for a while longer and what countless others have done..they're well prepared to deal with it/IMO independent voters don't like it... etc...

[IDBillzFan]

Additionally, the whole thing helps the Obama campaign fine-tune/focus/frame his examination of Bain (Romney's main argument for himself since he can't rely on his record as Governor as he had to pivot away from much of that) early on...I think allowing it to remain as sloppy as possible and continue on the path that it may have been on (and the path all the GOP primary candidates took) would have helped him.

The irony of the Obama camp pounding on Bain because Romney is unable to run on his record as an elected official is priceless. Thanks for that chuckle.

 

And please...you ensure all progressives far and wide share your enthusiasm for the Obama campaign to make this election about Bain.

 

Best idea ever. Can't fail. Slam dunk.

[WorldTraveller]

Only a left winger could possibly see this fiasco as a positive for the democratic party. The news cycle has been dominated by the fact that some prominent democrats have rejected this line of attack against Bain capital. The Obama administration was hoping that the first couple weeks were going to be about Bain capital, not this.

[1billsfan]

Obama is the worst president in the history of the US. The only reason he's hanging on in the polls is because there's a good portion of moderate democrats who when polled, are too ashamed to admit that they have no intention of voting for Obama.

 

Both the left and right can all agree that Obama has no record to run on in 2012. So he's running it on "fairness"? Unfortunately for the middle class, "fairness" only covers his ideological left wing special interest groups. He's basically giving the middle finger to the middle class and thinks that they're too dumb to figure it out. Home values decline, salaries decline, obamacare attacking their religions, ballooning gas prices, food stamp enrollment explosion, federal debt explosion, horribly stagnant economy. Yeah, the American middle class want them some four more years of THAT kind of "fairness" baby! Everyone was warned about Obama being a far leftist. They were also warned he wasn't nearly qualified enough to handle the job. It's hard to imagine that the middle class, who were duped the first time around, will make the same mistake again. These fake distractions will not work this time around. He was given a huge chance by the American middle class, he failed, he ran the office like the clueless liberal ivy league professor that he is, he proved the doubters right, and it will be the truly qualified Mitt Romney in a landslide.

[dayman]

The irony of the Obama camp pounding on Bain because Romney is unable to run on his record as an elected official is priceless. Thanks for that chuckle.

 

And please...you ensure all progressives far and wide share your enthusiasm for the Obama campaign to make this election about Bain.

 

Best idea ever. Can't fail. Slam dunk.

 

Romney is unable to tout significant parts of his record as an elected official b/c his party is so extreme they dragged him away from it. I'm glad that makes you laugh, it's sad for the country and honestly unfair to Romney IMO. And I don't want the election to be all about Bain...but you can think what you want.

 

Also 1bills fan I'm sorry if you think Obama is an extreme leftist. I don't know what you would think about the actual extreme leftist politicians in this country.

 

Worldtraveler you reveal your news cycle preference lol...no qualms there though not trying to bash.

Edited May 22, 2012 by TheNewBills

[Magox]

So many different areas to pick this a part, apart from the fact that the ads are distortions of the truth. Where to begin, where to begin?

 

First, the original ad was a closing of a plant that was going to bankrupt if Bain had never stepped in, so the fact that they invested and risked capital gave a lease of new life for an additional 9 years. So those misguided workers that were on those ads should be thanking Bain capital for giving them employment for an additional 9 years.

 

Second, the closing of that plant occured in 2001, Romney left Bain capital in 1999, and to make things worse, the person in charge at Bain in 2001 is an Obama campaign money bundler

 

Then there is this: My link

 

Ben LaBolt, an Obama campaign spokesman, can't answer questions about why President Obama will take money from private equity firms while at the same time bash Mitt Romney for his association with Bain Capital.

 

Then there is this:

 

President Obama raised far more cash from hedge fund and private equity donors than any other candidate in the 2008 election cycle.

 

According to an analysis by the nonprofit group Open Secrets, Obama took in nearly $3.5 million from large private-equity donors that year — nearly twice what his general-election rival, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), pocketed.

 

So the message here is, Mitt Romney doesn't share the values that I do, which is we need more "fairness" (code word for wealth distribution) in our economic system, yet I'll happily take the money of those that don't share my views.

 

Yeah, okey dokey.

 

You guys happen to catch Bookers youtube video where he sorta walked back his comments? You know the one where the Obama administration edited the video to fit their narrative, the one where if you would of placed an AL Qaeda banner as a backdrop it would of been a perfect parallel to a forced statement of that of a hostage video.

 

 

 

 

Less than 24 hours after Obama 2012 press secretary Ben LaBolt told CNN that the Obama campaign did not reach out to Cory Booker following his remarks on Meet The Press, the Newark Mayor went on MSNBC to confirm that he had, in fact, had "good conversations" with the Obama campaign before deciding to clarify his remarks in a YouTube video.

 

"I certainly did talk with campaign officials, but they didn't force me to do anything," Booker told Rachel Maddow last night. "They had good conversations with me, and after having good conversations with them... all of those things made me say, you know what, I need to go on and clarify."

 

 

Booker's admission to Maddow, like his initial criticism of the Obama campaign's "nauseating" attack ads against Bain Capital, is once again a departure from the official line. Earlier yesterday, CNN host Brooke Baldwin asked LaBolt whether the campaign (or White House) had reached out to Booker, and La Bolt offered the opposite answer.

 

Ok, so Obamas campaign manager is caught lying. No big deal.

 

 

 

Here is the hostage video btw, it rocks!

 

Edited May 22, 2012 by Magox

[Shoutbox]

at this thread. It's literally one person (TheNewBills) in the Obama corner vs. everyone else. Pretty much sums up PPP these days.

 

I'm glad that this Bain issue has taken center stage at the moment. The country needs to be talking more about these kinds of economic topics leading up to the November election.

 

Overall, I think this is going to turn into a losing issue for Obama. The truth is that Romney has nothing to be ashamed of regarding his Bain background. The particular financial services that Bain provides are an important part of any vibrant capitalist economy. The Obama group is somehow trying to paint Romney's financial background as "immoral," when in reality I would describe it as "amoral." This brand of capitalism demonization that is typical among left-wingers is only going to turn away unemployed/underemployed independent voters who want to start seeing positive macroeconomic results.

 

However, the Obama attack group does pose an interesting question that should be explored: will Romney's venture capitalism experience necessarily translate well to the President's specific responsibilities in growing the U.S. economy? I can see how it would when it comes to trimming government waste, but then again ALL prospective presidents talk about cutting government waste and NONE ever do. I can also see him creating a general political atmosphere where less government regulations lead to greater private industry growth, but will this come at some intolerable expense to the environment and to human rights? What about addressing certain free trade policies that many argue have helped contribute to the collapse of the middle class and to an economy disproportionately focused on services instead of on manufacturing and product innovation? What about proper Wall Street oversight to make sure another 2008 financial crisis doesn't occur? Romney's work at Bain - while successful and impressive - never had to address topics like these and, if anything, at first glance might suggest that he'd continue to prioritize the interests of the small moneyed elite class over the rest of America.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Mark Miller

[Magox]

at this thread. It's literally one person (TheNewBills) in the Obama corner vs. everyone else. Pretty much sums up PPP these days.

 

I'm glad that this Bain issue has taken center stage at the moment. The country needs to be talking more about these kinds of economic topics leading up to the November election.

 

Overall, I think this is going to turn into a losing issue for Obama. The truth is that Romney has nothing to be ashamed of regarding his Bain background. The particular financial services that Bain provides are an important part of any vibrant capitalist economy. The Obama group is somehow trying to paint Romney's particular financial background as "immoral," when in reality I would describe it as "amoral." This particular variation of capitalism demonization that is typical among left-wingers is only going to turn away unemployed/underemployed independent voters who want to start seeing positive macroeconomic results.

 

However, the Obama attack group does pose an interesting question that should be explored: will Romney's venture capitalism executive experience necessarily translate well to the President's specific responsibilities in growing the U.S. economy? I can see how it would when it comes to trimming government waste, but then again ALL prospective presidents talk about cutting government waste and NONE ever do. I can also see him creating a general political atmosphere where less government regulations lead to greater private industry growth, but will this come at some intolerable expense to the environment and to human rights? What about addressing certain free trade policies that many argue have helped contributed to the collapse of the middle class and to an economy disproportionately focused on services instead of on manufacturing and product innovation? What about proper Wall Street oversight to make sure another 2008 financial crisis doesn't occur? Romney's work at Bain - while successful and impressive - never had to address topics like these and, if anything, at first glance might suggest that he'd continue to prioritize the interests of the small moneyed elite class over the rest of America.

I'm guessing you are one of the traditional "swing voters". Liberal on the social issues yet fiscally conservative.

 

I happen to believe it is fair game as well, it is one of Romneys main arguments to why he is better equipped to create a more vibrant economy. My issue, which I don't blame them for trying, are the distortions and cherry picking of his experience.

 

One could do the exact same thing, and interview a Delphi worker and have him come out and say "Obama made a deal to save Union workers in the auto industry, but he left me high and dry".

 

It's silly, it's not representative of an accurate portrayal of the overall record.

 

Obviously this line of attack is going to play well with 75% of the Democratic party, because the hard wingers from both sides of the aisle are a bunch of lemmings, so it riles them up.

 

It will also play well with a segment of independents, because they simply don't know enough about Private equity and will buy into the "vulture capitalism" narrative.

 

However, most swing voter indendents are fiscally conservative and they recognize that not everyone wins in capitalism, and they also don't place nearly as much stock into Obama's theme of this elecion, which is "fairness". Most swing voter independents to not share Obamas ideology of wealth distribution. So Romney will win the independent vote this November, the question is by how much.

 

My guess is he will win it by 10% + which would hand him the elections. If he only wins it by 5%, and Obama gets a good turnout, then Obama wins.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Magox

[Doc]

Barry got his ass kicked over the Bain debacle. You won't see him mentioning it again.

[meazza]

Barry got his ass kicked over the Bain debacle. You won't see him mentioning it again.

 

You sure??

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLatxTzVE4w

[dayman]

It's literally one person (TheNewBills) in the Obama corner

 

....

 

I think this is going to turn into a losing issue for Obama. The truth is that Romney has nothing to be ashamed of regarding his Bain background.

 

...

 

the Obama attack group does pose an interesting question that should be explored: will Romney's venture capitalism executive experience necessarily translate well to the President's specific responsibilities in growing the U.S. economy?

 

Look, his pitch in the primary regarding Bain was that he was a job creator in the private sector.

 

My first substantive post in this thread (made before any of this Cory Booker stuff happened anyway btw)... regardless of what thoughts you mud throwers want to pretend I have:

 

It's a miscalculation to frame Bain and his experience there as a bona fide job creating qualification. Some jobs were created, and some jobs were destroyed. His job was to create superior returns, not create jobs. He should just say that and move on.

 

I never indicted private equity, in fact I specifically said I was not against it and it is !@#$ing retarded to be (go back a few posts I recently quoted myself b/c that's how I do ). My opinion, is not and has never been that Romney should be ashamed of anything. Independent of my leanings towards Obama in this election, as a voter...it's fair to question (not tear down w/ lies) his record at Bain when he uses it to tout himself as a private sector job creator, as well as to question how well the skill set that made him successful in that line of business would translate to the job of being president. As I have also said in this thread already:

 

This isn't an election for the next CEO of a private equity firm.

 

 

B/c I think about this stuff I'm a blind Obama supporter, I hate capitalism/private equity, and I'm an idiot.

[Magox]

Barry got his ass kicked over the Bain debacle. You won't see him mentioning it again.

Well, round 1 didn't go as planned. But he made it quite clear yesterday, that in his words, this will be the issue of the election. Of course, the issue of this election will be a referendum on his lousy stewardship of this economy, but he will go after Romney's record, and the calculations they are making is if they can discredit enough of Romney's strong point, which is the economy and shave off a few independents, than that may be enough for him to win the elections.

 

What Romney should do is not just dodge these haymaker punches, but counterpunch hard. In other words, use these attacks from Obama's campaign as further proof that "he just doesn't understand capitalism", and run with that, and run with it hard.

[dayman]

Barry got his ass kicked over the Bain debacle. You won't see him mentioning it again.

 

LOL. Regardless of how anybody feels...this isn't remotely true.

[Magox]

 

It's a miscalculation to frame Bain and his experience there as a bona fide job creating qualification. Some jobs were created, and some jobs were destroyed. His job was to create superior returns, not create jobs. He should just say that and move on.

 

 

Except they won't listen to your advice, because they did create lots of jobs. So too bad

 

LOL. Regardless of how anybody feels...this isn't remotely true.

Delusional much?

[dayman]

W=the issue of this election will be a referendum on his lousy stewardship of this economy, but he will go after Romney's record, and the calculations they are making is if they can discredit enough of Romney's strong point, which is the economy and shave off a few independents, than that may be enough for him to win the elections.

 

 

So then isn't Bain the issue too then? If Obama's issue is that he didn't do a good enough job w/ the recovery, and Mitt's counter is that he would have and he uses Bain as an example of having been a job creator...then how is this not relevant? Romney doesn't just get credit as having his strong point as the economy automatically ya know...he has to make an argument...being a rich republican contrary to popular belief is not an argument.

 

B/c you see it's not JUST about Obama. It's an election. It's about Obama vs. Romney. I don't understand this whole "referendum" on Obama as idea. I mean I do get that if you think he's the devil you will vote Romney assuming Romney is anyone other than the Devil secretly in disguise. But otherwise...Romney WILL BE PRESIDENT IF HE WINS. This is a pretty important part of this election to me lol

 

 

 

 

Delusional much?

 

 

I was referring to the fact that Obama won't bring it up again there. I realize looking at it now it was ambiguous.

[Magox]

So then isn't Bain the issue too then? If Obama's issue is that he didn't do a good enough job w/ the recovery, and Mitt's counter is that he would have and he uses Bain as an example of having been a job creator...then how is this not relevant? Romney doesn't just get credit as having his strong point as the economy automatically ya know...he has to make an argument...being a rich republican contrary to popular belief is not an argument.

 

B/c you see it's not JUST about Obama. It's an election. It's about Obama vs. Romney. I don't understand this whole "referendum" on Obama as idea. I mean I do get that if you think he's the devil you will vote Romney assuming Romney is anyone other than the Devil secretly in disguise. But otherwise...Romney WILL BE PRESIDENT IF HE WINS. This is a pretty important part of this election to me lol

I said its fair game.

 

Obviousy an issue like this riles up the left wingers like social issues do for the hard right. The question is how many down scale working class whites will buy into this. My guess is some, but on the otherhand, Obama risks alienating people who believe in capitalism. So it's going to be who wins the messaging war?

 

Since Obama doesn't have much of a record to run on, he'll try to have this election focus on his campaigns distortions of Romney's record. Truth is, the totality of Bain Capital did create alot more jobs than were lost, and that doesn't even include all the jobs preserved because of their capital infusions that sustained those companies. Then of course there is the impact that it has done for investors, which include pension funds.

 

Romney just needs to keep touting his job creations, business record and continue messaging things he'd do, such as the ad of the keystone pipeline, taxes and repealing and replacing Obama's signature legislation.

 

He also needs to rip apart Obamas attack on Bain, it's not that hard to do, there are so many easy areas to attack. Such as the hypocrisy of Obama pandering to these Private equity investors for campaign funds, even the ex head of Bain that was the one who actually made the decision to close down the plant

 

Then make strong argument of how Private equity is an important role in the American economy, not just for investors, but for the companies they invest in, and then tout that he was one of the best in the business.

 

This shouldn't be that hard, so much low-hanging fruit to work with.

[Doc]

Well, round 1 didn't go as planned. But he made it quite clear yesterday, that in his words, this will be the issue of the election. Of course, the issue of this election will be a referendum on his lousy stewardship of this economy, but he will go after Romney's record, and the calculations they are making is if they can discredit enough of Romney's strong point, which is the economy and shave off a few independents, than that may be enough for him to win the elections.

 

What Romney should do is not just dodge these haymaker punches, but counterpunch hard. In other words, use these attacks from Obama's campaign as further proof that "he just doesn't understand capitalism", and run with that, and run with it hard.

LOL. Regardless of how anybody feels...this isn't remotely true.

Sorry, my bad. What I should have said is Barry shouldn't mention Bain Capital again. Just like he dropped the "war on women" schtick like a hot potato after Rosen's gaffe. But he likely will, because he has nothing else. So he'll continue to get his ass kicked every time he does.

[dayman]

I said its fair game.

 

Obviousy an issue like this riles up the left wingers like social issues do for the hard right. The question is how many down scale working class whites will buy into this. My guess is some, but on the otherhand, Obama risks alienating people who believe in capitalism. So it's going to be who wins the messaging war?

 

Since Obama doesn't have much of a record to run on, he'll try to have this election focus on his campaigns distortions of Romney's record. Truth is, the totality of Bain Capital did create alot more jobs than were lost, and that doesn't even include all the jobs preserved because of their capital infusions that sustained those companies. Then of course there is the impact that it has done for investors, which include pension funds.

 

Romney just needs to keep touting his job creations, business record and continue messaging things he'd do, such as the ad of the keystone pipeline, taxes and repealing and replacing Obama's signature legislation.

 

He also needs to rip apart Obamas attack on Bain, it's not that hard to do, there are so many easy areas to attack. Such as the hypocrisy of Obama pandering to these Private equity investors for campaign funds, even the ex head of Bain that was the one who actually made the decision to close down the plant

 

Then make strong argument of how Private equity is an important role in the American economy, not just for investors, but for the companies they invest in, and then tout that he was one of the best in the business.

 

This shouldn't be that hard, so much low-hanging fruit to work with.

 

Well I get that he'll want to turn it into a discussion about private equity...and Obama will want to say that it's a discussion about if he was a job creator at Bain. Honestly I need some reliable neutral statistics on that and I haven't really seen them...I would love anybody here to find some (please if you can help me out here...don't quote something that's campaign material/blatant partisan nonsense from either side). The truth is that this is really important to Romney's pitch...b/c as we all know he lost manufacturing jobs as Governor (a position more analogous to President than running Bain) and Mass was the 47th state in job creation.

 

As for why it gets some on the left so worked up it's b/c ... as you implied yourself ... it means that people hate capitalism if they think the president is the president for US citizens (as opposed to US citizens who are economic winners). It's not about about anti-capitalism or wealth redistribution. It's about policy that benefits the American people. And this is the debate we will have over the coming months. If Romney can truly convince me that he actually has the answers for the economy that will get us all moving again...No further questions asked. I hate his asinine budget w/ his defense spending and his antiquated foreign policy and truly believe that repealing the ACA is a step backwards...so he has to show me he has the answers and that he's the guy who can create wealth for the American people. He has every opportunity.

 

Sorry, my bad. What I should have said is Barry shouldn't mention Bain Capital again. Just like he dropped the "war on women" schtick like a hot potato after Rosen's gaffe. But he likely will, because he has nothing else. So he'll continue to get his ass kicked every time he does.

 

For reasons stated above I disagree with that. But to each his own.

Edited May 22, 2012 by TheNewBills