Bain Capital - GST Steel - Obamas Commercial

[DC Tom]

It's a miscalculation to frame Bain and his experience there as a bona fide job creating qualification. Some jobs were created, and some jobs were destroyed. His job was to create superior returns, not create jobs. He should just say that and move on.

 

Private equity investment is meant to create superior returns on equity, which requires growth in business value. Which requires either growth in business operations or trimming back waste.

 

But in no sense is it cut-and-run "vulture capitalism" attempting to build up cash. If it were, Staples wouldn't exist.

[Chef Jim]

Private equity investment is meant to create superior returns on equity, which requires growth in business value. Which requires either growth in business operations or trimming back waste.

 

But in no sense is it cut-and-run "vulture capitalism" attempting to build up cash. If it were, Staples wouldn't exist.

 

And if it were Bain wouldn't exist because no one would have hired them.

[dayman]

I don't need to be lectured on private equity or capitalism first off (Magox...what a blow-hard post that was I mean MY GOD lol). I don't oppose private equity, period...b/c I'm not a !@#$ing retard.

 

The point meazza/Magox (as I see it anyway), is that there are practices which are shady (from an employee "common man" stand point) and the idea that Bain wasn't guilty of it (both on Romney's watch, and certainly after) is a blatant lie. The image that this was their standard business model, is also a blatant lie....and most of what is in that Gingrich ad I posted (which I posted ONLY to remind people this narrative was used in the primary and in basically every election Romney has ever had) is absolutely false.

 

Bain capital DID make money by mortgaging companies having them take on a bunch of debt, raising earnings temporarily, taking out dividends by starving the company of operating/human capital and then these companies often collapsed. This is NOT every company...this is NOT the majority of companies. This is NOT illegal. But this is ****ty, from the perspective of the workers of that company.

 

About 4 or 5 of Bain's biggest investments while he was there went bankrupt and they weren't all "turn around" jobs ... campanies like Dominos Pizza, Sealy Mattress, etc. As for the idea that it's not bad to go bankrupt if they come out and prosper...well they prosper b/c they are able to restructure and shed the debt Bain loads up on them! Being successful after that shows it was a company that could be saved to begin with and succeeded despite of the overloaded debt they incurred.

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/03/nation/la-na-romney-bain-20111204

 

Bain managers said their mission was clear. "I never thought of what I do for a living as job creation," said Marc B. Walpow, a former managing partner at Bain who worked closely with Romney for nine years before forming his own firm. "The primary goal of private equity is to create wealth for your investors."

Bain's top 10 dollar investments under Romney — averaging $53 million — spanned a number of sectors, including healthcare, entertainment and manufacturing. The firm's largest investment was its 1999 buyout of Domino's Pizza, into which Bain put $188.8 million, eventually reaping a fivefold return.

Four of the 10 companies Bain acquired declared bankruptcy within a few years, shedding thousands of jobs. The prospectus shows that Bain investors profited in eight of the 10 deals, including three of the four that ended in bankruptcy.

Edited May 19, 2012 by TheNewBills

[3rdnlng]

I don't need to be lectured on private equity or capitalism first off (Magox...what a blow-hard post that was I mean MY GOD lol). I don't oppose private equity, period...b/c I'm not a !@#$ing retard.

 

The point meazza/Magox (as I see it anyway), is that there are practices which are shady (from an employee "common man" stand point) and the idea that Bain wasn't guilty of it (both on Romney's watch, and certainly after) is a blatant lie. The image that this was their standard business model, is also a blatant lie....and most of what is in that Gingrich ad I posted (which I posted ONLY to remind people this narrative was used in the primary and in basically every election Romney has ever had) is absolutely false.

 

Bain capital DID make money by mortgaging companies having them take on a bunch of debt, raising earnings temporarily, taking out dividends by starving the company of operating/human capital and then these companies often collapsed. This is NOT every company...this is NOT the majority of companies. This is NOT illegal. But this is ****ty, from the perspective of the workers of that company.

 

About 4 or 5 of Bain's biggest investments while he was there went bankrupt and they weren't all "turn around" jobs ... campanies like Dominos Pizza, Sealy Mattress, etc. As for the idea that it's not bad to go bankrupt if they come out and prosper...well they prosper b/c they are able to restructure and shed the debt Bain loads up on them! Being successful after that shows it was a company that could be saved to begin with and succeeded despite of the overloaded debt they incurred.

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/03/nation/la-na-romney-bain-20111204

 

Bain managers said their mission was clear. "I never thought of what I do for a living as job creation," said Marc B. Walpow, a former managing partner at Bain who worked closely with Romney for nine years before forming his own firm. "The primary goal of private equity is to create wealth for your investors."

Bain's top 10 dollar investments under Romney — averaging $53 million — spanned a number of sectors, including healthcare, entertainment and manufacturing. The firm's largest investment was its 1999 buyout of Domino's Pizza, into which Bain put $188.8 million, eventually reaping a fivefold return.

Four of the 10 companies Bain acquired declared bankruptcy within a few years, shedding thousands of jobs. The prospectus shows that Bain investors profited in eight of the 10 deals, including three of the four that ended in bankruptcy.

 

 

From that same article:

 

 

"In 1994 Bain invested $18.2 million in the start-up of a new steel manufacturing company in Fort Wayne, Ind., called Steel Dynamics that is one of the industry leaders in revenue growth. Today that firm reports $6.3 billion in revenue, nearly 25 times the $252.6 million reported when the company went public in 1996, according to Fred Warner, its the company's investor relations manager. The company now employs more than 6,000 workers, and its sales growth has made it an industry star."

 

 

I'd call that job creation.

[dayman]

From that same article:

 

 

"In 1994 Bain invested $18.2 million in the start-up of a new steel manufacturing company in Fort Wayne, Ind., called Steel Dynamics that is one of the industry leaders in revenue growth. Today that firm reports $6.3 billion in revenue, nearly 25 times the $252.6 million reported when the company went public in 1996, according to Fred Warner, its the company's investor relations manager. The company now employs more than 6,000 workers, and its sales growth has made it an industry star."

 

 

I'd call that job creation.

 

Yes 3rdnlng...good job. That's the point, there are some jobs created and jobs destroyed. Intelligent, neutral economists have debate about whether the activities of Bain are on net, positive or negative for the overall economy and certainly for workers. That's the point. To go around championing Bain like Magox appeared to be doing though....that's is !@#$ing ridiculous. However, to defend it from unfair attacks is equally valid. And once again, it's not about general capitalism or the concept of private equity overall. It's about the activities of Bain and how they ultimately were so profitable...and I got news for all of you it's not just identifying an opportunity and investing money and helping manage a plan and growing out business like some lemonade stand acquiring more customers and hiring more employees. There is a lot more to it, some of which is far from the type of thing the "common man" would look at and bow down to as a job creating God. Some of it is exactly what I described above. And for workers of those companies...it's insulting that people would suggest that it was somehow good for America what happened (in their case).

 

EDIT: And btw, Bain aside there absolutely ARE companies out there that are classic slash and burn vulture capitalists...to just look at people who have money and are involved in business putting money in and whatnot and call them the basis of all that is sacred for AMerican Capitalism is naive.

Edited May 19, 2012 by TheNewBills

[Magox]

I don't need to be lectured on private equity or capitalism first off (Magox...what a blow-hard post that was I mean MY GOD lol). I don't oppose private equity, period...b/c I'm not a !@#$ing retard.

 

The point meazza/Magox (as I see it anyway), is that there are practices which are shady (from an employee "common man" stand point) and the idea that Bain wasn't guilty of it (both on Romney's watch, and certainly after) is a blatant lie. The image that this was their standard business model, is also a blatant lie....and most of what is in that Gingrich ad I posted (which I posted ONLY to remind people this narrative was used in the primary and in basically every election Romney has ever had) is absolutely false.

 

Bain capital DID make money by mortgaging companies having them take on a bunch of debt, raising earnings temporarily, taking out dividends by starving the company of operating/human capital and then these companies often collapsed. This is NOT every company...this is NOT the majority of companies. This is NOT illegal. But this is ****ty, from the perspective of the workers of that company.

 

About 4 or 5 of Bain's biggest investments while he was there went bankrupt and they weren't all "turn around" jobs ... campanies like Dominos Pizza, Sealy Mattress, etc. As for the idea that it's not bad to go bankrupt if they come out and prosper...well they prosper b/c they are able to restructure and shed the debt Bain loads up on them! Being successful after that shows it was a company that could be saved to begin with and succeeded despite of the overloaded debt they incurred.

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/03/nation/la-na-romney-bain-20111204

 

Bain managers said their mission was clear. "I never thought of what I do for a living as job creation," said Marc B. Walpow, a former managing partner at Bain who worked closely with Romney for nine years before forming his own firm. "The primary goal of private equity is to create wealth for your investors."

Bain's top 10 dollar investments under Romney — averaging $53 million — spanned a number of sectors, including healthcare, entertainment and manufacturing. The firm's largest investment was its 1999 buyout of Domino's Pizza, into which Bain put $188.8 million, eventually reaping a fivefold return.

Four of the 10 companies Bain acquired declared bankruptcy within a few years, shedding thousands of jobs. The prospectus shows that Bain investors profited in eight of the 10 deals, including three of the four that ended in bankruptcy.

Nevermind the fact that you have no idea what Private equity is about and that you are woefully misinformed when it comes to this subject, but relax, no need to get upset. He created lots of money and jobs and he's not gonna take your left wing advice and just ignore the thousands of jobs that were created under his superb management. It was because of his tremendous success that the Salt Lake City Olympics entrusted him to turn around what was about to be a national embarrassment riddled with inefficiences into a smoothly run event.

 

Most people who don't have a political agenda and reside in the middle don't buy into your characterization of events, that stuff is for the loons.

 

"I never thought of what I do for a living as job creation,"

 

And name me one business who's main goal is to create jobs?

 

 

 

So again, relax bro, no need to get all whiny

Edited May 19, 2012 by Magox

[dayman]

Nevermind the fact that you have no idea what Private equity is about and that you are woefully misinformed when it comes to this subject, but relax, no need to get upset. He created lots of money and jobs and he's not gonna take your left wing advice and just ignore the thousands of jobs that were created under his superb management. It was because of his tremendous success that the Salt Lake City Olympics entrusted him to turn around what was about to be a national embarrassment riddled with inefficiences into a smoothly run event.

 

Most people who don't have a political agenda and reside in the middle don't buy into your characterization of events, that stuff is for the loons.

 

So again, relax bro, no need to get all whiny

 

Not whiny. Glad you love Bain and Romney. Bow down.

[Magox]

Not whiny. Glad you love Bain and Romney. Bow down.

Oh yes, whiny as hell. And psss, it's not me bowing down, thats Obama.

 

Oh and btw,

 

Bain managers said their mission was clear. "I never thought of what I do for a living as job creation," said Marc B. Walpow, a former managing partner at Bain who worked closely with Romney for nine years before forming his own firm. "The primary goal of private equity is to create wealth for your investors."

 

Name me a business who's main goal is to create jobs.

[dayman]

Oh yes, whiny as hell. And psss, it's not me bowing down, thats Obama.

 

Oh and btw,

 

 

 

Name me a business who's main goal is to create jobs.

 

LOL. Look it's retardation to parrot the misinformation and unfair attacks that target Bain. It's also pretty retarded brainwashed-behavior to worship Bain as you do. The President of the United States is in the business of creating job.

[Magox]

LOL. Look it's retardation to parrot the misinformation and unfair attacks that target Bain. It's also pretty retarded brainwashed-behavior to worship Bain as you do. The President of the United States is in the business of creating job.

Yes, I am a finance guy, thats my field and I admire Bain capital, and it's not retardation, it's defending untruths from nitwits who have little to offer other than mistruths. Oh, and lets not forget you characterized it as "destroyed" jobs, by your own words, not mine, I guess that makes you a retard.

 

The President of the United States is in the business of creating job.

 

So that's your response to my question. Then why did you even quote it? I mean there is only one president.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Magox

[Nanker]

Wonder what Bruce would say about this.

Or Jon Runyan - don't care that he's a Repub.

This year, Runyan paid $61,627.28 in property taxes on the three acres that include his house. For the remaining 20 acres, he paid $123.80.

[dayman]

Yes, I am a finance guy, thats my field and I admire Bain capital, and it's not retardation, it's defending untruths from nitwits who have little to offer other than mistruths. Oh, and lets not forget you characterized it as "destroyed" jobs, by your own words, not mine, I guess that makes you a retard.

 

 

 

So that's your response to my question. Then why did you even quote it? I mean there is only one president.

 

Look you can admire Bain as a finance guy, I'm not saying you shouldn't they made a boatload they were profitable. This isn't an election for the next CEO of a private equity firm. And what mistruths am I propagating anywhere in my posts? As for "destroyed jobs" pull your panties out of your vag for Christ's sake. What would you call it when a job was there, and now it isn't?

Edited May 19, 2012 by TheNewBills

[Magox]

Look you can admire Bain as a finance guy, I'm not saying you shouldn't they made a boatload they were profitable. This isn't an election for the next CEO of a private equity firm. And what mistruths am I propagating anywhere in my posts? As for "destroyed jobs" pull your panties out of your vag for Christ's sake. What would you call it when a job was there, and now it isn't?

Again, you miss the point. Obama use to be a community organizer and he used those skills to get where he is. I happen to believe that a CEO of a private equity firm fits perfectly for being the President. CEOs of private equity firms are "turn around guys", they recognize waste, areas of potential demand, then streamline them and then execute.

 

And yes, the term "destroyed" means

 

1.Put an end to the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it.

2.Completely ruin or spoil (something).

 

Did Bain capital damage these companies? Did Bain capital ruin them? Nope, they were lost, thats the term, lost because the business model no longer work. So to answer your question, you spoke a mistruth by characterizing it as "destroyed".

 

 

 

Bain managers said their mission was clear. "I never thought of what I do for a living as job creation," said Marc B. Walpow, a former managing partner at Bain who worked closely with Romney for nine years before forming his own firm. "The primary goal of private equity is to create wealth for your investors."

 

And the fact that you quoted this, just shows that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how capitalism works. People don't create businesses so that they can create jobs, they create businesses so that they can profit. It is as a result of profits and growth that allows for job creation to occur.

 

You should really quit while you are way behind, I have thoroughly debunked every point you made.

[meazza]

LOL. Look it's retardation to parrot the misinformation and unfair attacks that target Bain. It's also pretty retarded brainwashed-behavior to worship Bain as you do. The President of the United States is in the business of creating job.

 

Milton Friedman must be rolling in his grave.

[Magox]

Milton Friedman must be rolling in his grave.

How did I not catch that? Only a liberal believes that the job of the president is to "create jobs"

 

That right there just shows that NewBills is ill-equipped to discuss this topic with substance.

 

The presidents job is not to create jobs, it is to create an enviroment that allows job creation to thrive.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Magox

[dayman]

Again, you miss the point. Obama use to be a community organizer and he used those skills to get where he is. I happen to believe that a CEO of a private equity firm fits perfectly for being the President. CEOs of private equity firms are "turn around guys", they recognize waste, areas of potential demand, then streamline them and then execute.

 

And yes, the term "destroyed" means

 

1.Put an end to the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it.

2.Completely ruin or spoil (something).

 

Did Bain capital damage these companies? Did Bain capital ruin them? Nope, they were lost, thats the term, lost because the business model no longer work. So to answer your question, you spoke a mistruth by characterizing it as "destroyed".

 

 

 

 

 

And the fact that you quoted this, just shows that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how capitalism works. People don't create businesses so that they can create jobs, they create businesses so that they can profit. It is as a result of profits and growth that allows for job creation to occur.

 

You should really quit while you are way behind, I have thoroughly debunked every point you made.

 

Get over the destroyed term. I'll use the term "loss" from now on when talking with you if you prefer b/c I'm just a nice guy.

 

Also c'mon man read the damn thread. I don't know if it was you or someone else I quoted that part at the bottom in response to someone challenging me when I literally SAID that they weren't creating jobs rather they were creating greater returns...someone said that wasn't true or something and that traders do that...obviously private equity firms do that as well.

 

EDIT: Ok so you two right now are on record saying you do NOT think it's the president's job to create jobs? So neither of you will EVER knock Obama on the economy then right? And don't give me some semantics about creating an environment for jobs/not getting the way as opposed to direct jobs b/c obviously that's what I mean and no I don't mean literally create a bunch of federal jobs. So stop being retarded.

 

How did I not catch that? Only a liberal believes that the job of the president is to "create jobs"

 

That right there just shows that NewBills is ill-equipped to discuss this topic with substance.

 

The presidents job is not to create jobs, it is to create an enviroment that allows job creation to thrive.

 

No !@#$ing **** that's what I meant. Thank you for educating me on that though. For a minute there I thought it was his job to hire everyone in AMerica and pay them w/ tax dollars but now I'm corrected thank you.

 

/sarcasm.

Edited May 19, 2012 by TheNewBills

[Magox]

Get over the destroyed term. I'll use the term "loss" from now on when talking with you if you prefer b/c I'm just a nice guy.

 

Also c'mon man read the damn thread. I don't know if it was you or someone else I quoted that part at the bottom in response to someone challenging me when I literally SAID that they weren't creating jobs rather they were creating greater returns...someone said that wasn't true or something and that traders do that...obviously private equity firms do that as well.

 

EDIT: Ok so you two right now are on record saying you do NOT think it's the president's job to create jobs? So neither of you will EVER knock Obama no the economy then right? And don't give me some semantics about creating an environment for jobs as opposed to direct jobs b/c obviously that's what I mean and no I don't mean literally create a bunch of federal jobs. So stop being retarded.

No, I will knock him because the environment he has created includes an overzealous EPA that has created tons of regulations at the expense of drilling and coal jobs. Also, I lost my job because of Dodd Frank and I know many others that have as well, and there are alot of businesses that arent creating jobs because of regulations. So yes, the president gets a failing mark in not creating a proper environment for job creation.

 

And no, he was creating jobs and lots of them. You can keep saying that as many times that you like, it's not going to change the fact that they created thousands of jobs.

[meazza]

How did I not catch that? Only a liberal believes that the job of the president is to "create jobs"

 

That right there just shows that NewBills is ill-equipped to discuss this topic with substance.

 

The presidents job is not to create jobs, it is to create an enviroment that allows job creation to thrive.

 

I actually recently watched Friedman's PBS special, "free to choose" and I wish he were still alive today.

 

His points of view will always be valid and he'd put this president to shame.

[3rdnlng]

Get over the destroyed term. I'll use the term "loss" from now on when talking with you if you prefer b/c I'm just a nice guy.

 

Also c'mon man read the damn thread. I don't know if it was you or someone else I quoted that part at the bottom in response to someone challenging me when I literally SAID that they weren't creating jobs rather they were creating greater returns...someone said that wasn't true or something and that traders do that...obviously private equity firms do that as well.

 

EDIT: Ok so you two right now are on record saying you do NOT think it's the president's job to create jobs? So neither of you will EVER knock Obama on the economy then right? And don't give me some semantics about creating an environment for jobs/not getting the way as opposed to direct jobs b/c obviously that's what I mean and no I don't mean literally create a bunch of federal jobs. So stop being retarded.

 

No !@#$ing **** that's what I meant. Thank you for educating me on that though. For a minute there I thought it was his job to hire everyone in AMerica and pay them w/ tax dollars but now I'm corrected thank you.

 

/sarcasm.

 

It's a giant difference.

[dayman]

No, I will knock him because the environment he has created includes an overzealous EPA that has created tons of regulations at the expense of drilling and coal jobs. Also, I lost my job because of Dodd Frank and I know many others that have as well, and there are alot of businesses that arent creating jobs because of regulations. So yes, the president gets a failing mark in not creating a proper environment for job creation.

 

And no, he was creating jobs and lots of them. You can keep saying that as many times that you like, it's not going to change the fact that they created thousands of jobs.

 

Boo hooo I lost my job b/c of Dodd Frank...boohoo I am under the false impression the EPA going to far is somehow a new thing Obama did that hasn't been going on since the 70s...boohooo dey took mah job! I just want to drill like no one can see me, trade like nobody is looking, etc etc....

 

Edit: And btw I'm just going to put this out there before someone makes some retarded comment and trys to drag me down the rabbit hole defending everything Obama does...I don't really agree w/ all of Obama's energy policy nor do I back every decision the guy makes. I just support him over Romney, b/c that's the choice I have.