tomdayfan Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) The Ft. Lauderdale Sun Sentinel ranked the Dolphins' all-time 10 best quarterbacks. Obviously Marino is #1 and Griese is #2....but how about Chad Pennington as #3? And it gets a lot worse after that. Dolphins top 10 QB's So I got to thinking....Kelly vs. Marino is a pretty even competition at #1. Kemp vs. Griese at #2: slight advantage Dolphins? Ferguson #3: clear advantage Bills. Where do we go from there? Here's my list: 4) Flutie 5) Reich 6) Bledsoe 7) Fitz 8) Lamonica 9) Dennis Shaw 10)James Harris I left off Edwards, Collins, Van Pelt....and of course JP & Rob Johnson. Discuss. Edited May 16, 2012 by tomdayfan
NoSaint Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 The Ft. Lauderdale Sun Sentinel ranked the Dolphins' all-time 10 best quarterbacks. Obviously Marino is #1 and Griese is #2....but how about Chad Pennington as #3? And it gets a lot worse after that. Dolphins top 10 QB's So I got to thinking....Kelly vs. Marino is a pretty even competition at #1. Kemp vs. Griese at #2: slight advantage Dolphins? Ferguson #3: clear advantage Bills. Where do we go from there? Here's my list: 4) Flutie 5) Reich 6) Bledsoe 7) Fitz 8) Lamonica 9) Dennis Shaw 10)James Harris I left off Edwards, Collins, Van Pelt....and of course JP & Rob Johnson. Discuss. With us? Career? How do you normalize across eras? I find reich feeling too high, but I didn't really get to watch a lot of those guys.
Best Player Available Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 The Ft. Lauderdale Sun Sentinel ranked the Dolphins' all-time 10 best quarterbacks. Obviously Marino is #1 and Griese is #2....but how about Chad Pennington as #3? And it gets a lot worse after that. Dolphins top 10 QB's So I got to thinking....Kelly vs. Marino is a pretty even competition at #1. Kemp vs. Griese at #2: slight advantage Dolphins? Ferguson #3: clear advantage Bills. Where do we go from there? Here's my list: 4) Flutie 5) Reich 6) Bledsoe 7) Fitz 8) Lamonica 9) Dennis Shaw 10)James Harris I left off Edwards, Collins, Van Pelt....and of course JP & Rob Johnson. Discuss. If your talking head to head competition. Kelly owns Marino's ass.
Canks Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) I don't know. all those guys did great with linemen who arguably had shorter arms than any of the current linemen after them. I'd say that in itself is enough to give some extra cheddar points to the older generation qb's. Although Hamdan still goes 2nd. Dude makes great shirts trust me Edited May 16, 2012 by Canks
Buftex Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) The Ft. Lauderdale Sun Sentinel ranked the Dolphins' all-time 10 best quarterbacks. Obviously Marino is #1 and Griese is #2....but how about Chad Pennington as #3? And it gets a lot worse after that. Dolphins top 10 QB's So I got to thinking....Kelly vs. Marino is a pretty even competition at #1. Kemp vs. Griese at #2: slight advantage Dolphins? Ferguson #3: clear advantage Bills. Where do we go from there? Here's my list: 4) Flutie 5) Reich 6) Bledsoe 7) Fitz 8) Lamonica 9) Dennis Shaw 10)James Harris I left off Edwards, Collins, Van Pelt....and of course JP & Rob Johnson. Discuss. When I first read your list, I was thinking "that's it? He has to be forgetting somebody" But, no that is it. Of course, I would probably put RJ over Shaw and Harris...but that is just me! I would probably rank Lamonica a little higher on the list, at least above Fitz at this point...of course, I am too young to have seen him play in Buffalo, and only vaguely remember him as a Raider...probably more from football cards than anything. But, his reputation as a Buffalo Bill was pretty high...my godfather (a die hard Notre Dame guy) would swear to this day, the Bills made a huge mistake in getting rid of Lamonica, and sticking with Kemp. The Bills first QB controversy! If you base it solely on what these guys did as Bills, it is a pretty short list, isn't it? Of course, when you think about it, much older teams, like the Bears and Lions would have a hard time coming up with 10 guys any better than the Bills had to offer. I will say, the first half of the 2002 season, Bledsoe's first 8 games, was probably the highest extended level of play I can recall from any Bills QB, including Kelly and Fergy...not saying he was better than either guy, but that was a great first half of a season, offensively...of course games 9-16 kind of canceled it out! Edited May 16, 2012 by Buftex
Dragonborn10 Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 How do you even put Reich on the list? He had one amazing less than half of a game.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 How do you even put Reich on the list? He had one amazing less than half of a game. Bills career passing… sortable database: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/career-passing.htm Reich is 13th all-time in pass attempts… look who's above him on the list.
ganesh Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 How do you even put Reich on the list? He had one amazing less than half of a game. And he sucked with the Expansion Panthers
billsintaiwan Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) Bills career passing… sortable database: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/career-passing.htm Reich is 13th all-time in pass attempts… look who's above him on the list. good link. flutie 21-9. near the bottom in sack percentage. flutie used to be tough to watch sometimes, but i'll bet he had one of the lowest "3 and out" percentages of bills qbs as well. always seemed like he moved the chains a bit. big factor in our d being so good during that period. Edited May 16, 2012 by billsintaiwan
Coach55 Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 I can make a very good argument why Fergy is not the 3rd best QB in Bills history. Although he played for a long time, the team did nothing and other than handing the ball to Simpson, he did nothing. I am not saying he was a horrible QB, but if given the choice, I would take Flutie hands down. 21-9 for a career record is pretty good all things considered. Lamonica is probably the 3rd best QB (if not 2nd) on the list, however just like Bledsoe his performance came elsewhere. good link. flutie 21-9. near the bottom in sack percentage. flutie used to be tough to watch sometimes, but i'll bet he had one of the lowest "3 and out" percentages of bills qbs as well. always seemed like he moved the chains a bit. big factor in our d being so good during that period. Of the 194 QBs All-time that Qualify, Flutie ranks 16th in Sack%.... Rob Johnson 194th... http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_sacked_perc_career.htm
tennesseeboy Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 Are we ranking them as quarterbacks for their career or for their time with the Bills? Harris, Lamonica and Bledsoe would rank a bit higher taking their entire career into consideration. I LOVE Kemp and don't get me wrong, but I would have to put him at a draw with Griese or (God forbid) give Griese a slight edge. Good list though...although I don't see Hobert the playbook guy anywhere...or Dan Darragh...or Gary Marangi...or Richie Lucas..or Warren Rabb?
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) good link. flutie 21-9. near the bottom in sack percentage. flutie used to be tough to watch sometimes, but i'll bet he had one of the lowest "3 and out" percentages of bills qbs as well. always seemed like he moved the chains a bit. big factor in our d being so good during that period. Of the 194 QBs All-time that Qualify, Flutie ranks 16th in Sack%.... Rob Johnson 194th... http://www.pro-footb...perc_career.htm Yep. There are people here who still think it was all about the defense, even though Johnson had a losing record with that same defense. That extra 2-3 first downs each game… the extra 5 minutes of possession time… all those things effect the outcome of football games. Flutie had lots of intangibles… Johnson had zero. Flutie also had 7 4th quarter comebacks in his 30 starts in Buffalo. He always seemed to have a trick or two up his sleeve for the end. How do you even put Reich on the list? He had one amazing less than half of a game. Bills career passing… sortable database: http://www.pro-footb...eer-passing.htm Reich is 13th all-time in pass attempts… look who's above him on the list. And he sucked with the Expansion Panthers So as I was saying to you guys, 13th overall in career pass attempts with the Bills behind such luminaries as Dennis Shaw, JP Losman, Trent Edwards, Todd Collins, and Alex Van Pelt. Not only did Frank Reich command the Bills in the Greatest Comeback game but he was also (along with Gary Kubiak) considered the best backup quarterback of his era. That's why he is on the list. Have a little respect for the guy. Edited May 16, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan
OCinBuffalo Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 If your talking head to head competition. Kelly owns Marino's ass. That's why when I heard Colin Cowherd trying to say that Tony Romo is a top 5 QB yesterday, and even an all time great, and using Dan Marino as evidence, I scoffed. As if Eli Manning is anywhere near being Tony Romo's Jim Kelly. Ridiculous. Half the Giant fans wanted Eli gone before last year, and they could make a good case. Kelly, and Bruce Smith, etc. are the ONLY reason Marino didn't go to, or win, SBs. Who is stopping Romo from going to/winning playoff games? Answer: Tony Romo All time Buffalo QBs: I'd move Bledsoe ahead of Flutie. Here's hoping that Fitz ends up #3 on this list by the end of the year.
DDD Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 If your talking head to head competition. Kelly owns Marino's ass. That was a function of the Bills having superior talent around Kelly. This won't be popular but given the choice of Marino or Kelly, I'd take Marino in a heartbeat.
OCinBuffalo Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 That was a function of the Bills having superior talent around Kelly. This won't be popular but given the choice of Marino or Kelly, I'd take Marino in a heartbeat. We all "knew" that pound for pound, and on paper, Marino was probably better in terms of pure pocket passing skill. But, there other kinds of pounds. Like the pounding Jim Kelly would give you if you intercepted his pass. Like the pounding that Kelly could take, and that Marino couldn't. The pounding Marino routinely got from the Bills being what turned him into Trent Dilfer in the 4th quarter of playoff games. Sure this is probably right, if we look at it from a Madden score perspective. But that's my issue with Madden. What is the Madden score of Dan Marino, who has been sacked 4 times already, one a crushing hit from both Bruce and Talley, and is playing in 30 mph winds in Buffalo, in the 4th quarter? What is Kelly's under the same set of conditions? What will be Tom Brady's/Tony Romo's madden score....if they have to play our new defense...under the same set of conditions?
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 If your talking head to head competition. Kelly owns Marino's ass. True, but it is more the Bills' team owned the Dolphins' team. I can't stand him (unpopular opinion alert) but if Kelly and Marino switched teams, would there be any dropoff? I hate to say it, but I won't be surprised if we won one of those SBs with redfaced Dan. The Bills had a much better team than the Fins. And since they retired, have any 2 teams had worse groups of QBs than both teams?
KD in CA Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 Regarding the Dolphin list, Chad Pennington ahead of Earl Morrall and Don Strock?
Buftex Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 This thread is so full of crazy assumptions and jumps in logic, it would be difficult to respond to them all...but this thread, as fun as it is, is a perfect example why you can't compare eras, and you have to put a players career in perspective, his role on the team, etc into some sort of perspective. To say that "all Frank did was have one half of a great game" is not accurate at all. He was the consumate back-up QB, and performed at a very high level, whenever he was called upon. Don't forget, it wasn't just the "Comeback" game...Reich stepped in for Kelly a few times during those Super Bowl runs, and came up big, virtually every time. Don't forget a huge game against the Dolphins that iced the division for us, or his first start, with the dramatic come from behind final moments victory on Monday Night against the Rams...that win was the difference between, not only the Bills winning their divison in 1989, but making the playoffs at all, with their 9-7 record. If I recall, Reich started three consecutive games, (Rams, Jets and Phins) all victories, for the Bickering Bills that year...not to say Kelly wouldn't have won some, or all, of them...but Reich answered the bell, time and again. Other than a season ending OT loss to the Lions the one season (Kelly was rested, as were many starters, in preperation for the playoffs) that tarnished the Bills perfect home record that year, Reichs contributions were the differences in winnig the AFC East, and ending up with the Conferences' best record, a few times...he wasn't as dynamic on the field as Kelly, but he got the job done, most any time he was called upon. Reich wasn't particularly good as a starter in Carolina, or with the Jets, but as a QB for the Bills, his contributions were very significant in conrtributing to what is, the "golden era" of the post-merger era of Bills football. True, but it is more the Bills' team owned the Dolphins' team. I can't stand him (unpopular opinion alert) but if Kelly and Marino switched teams, would there be any dropoff? I hate to say it, but I won't be surprised if we won one of those SBs with redfaced Dan. The Bills had a much better team than the Fins. And since they retired, have any 2 teams had worse groups of QBs than both teams? As I mentioned in another post in this thread, go look at the history of the Bears and Lions QB position...the Bills and Dolphins don't look so pathetic, with shorter histories.
thr_wedge Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 That's why when I heard Colin Cowherd trying to say that Tony Romo is a top 5 QB yesterday, and even an all time great, and using Dan Marino as evidence, I scoffed. As if Eli Manning is anywhere near being Tony Romo's Jim Kelly. Ridiculous. Half the Giant fans wanted Eli gone before last year, and they could make a good case. Kelly, and Bruce Smith, etc. are the ONLY reason Marino didn't go to, or win, SBs. Who is stopping Romo from going to/winning playoff games? Answer: Tony Romo All time Buffalo QBs: I'd move Bledsoe ahead of Flutie. Here's hoping that Fitz ends up #3 on this list by the end of the year. I'm hoping Fitz moves to #1 by the end of this year.
Billsrhody Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 GB Packers top 5: Favre Starr Rodgers Hasselbeck Flynn (I dont know any of the old timers but one of them is probably better than Flynn / Hasselbeck. How many teams even have 1 QB that is better than the top 3 guys on their list? That team has been blessed..
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