Beerball Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Aw, poor WEO. Gets his panties in a bunch and starts hurling the insults when someone has the temerity to bust Kraft's balls. GO BILLS!!! Insults have been hurled in both directions for quite some time now. I'm not against exapnding the market. Far from it. The best way to do that is having a winning and entertaining team. Ralph Wilson squandered a tremendous marketing opportunity with his first Toronto series exposure when he presented a dud product. The Toronto media and public response to his dullard team was tepid at best. Instead of solidifying and incorporating the canadian market for the franchise he is now trying to salvage it. The Bills have been bad for nearly a generation. It is an understatement to say that for a very long time the franchise was run in a very second rate manner. Now it seems that the people running the football operation know how to build a quality team. My point is simply that the best approach to expand and energize a market is to not lose sight that it is mostly about the quality of the product. Say what you want about Ralph, but he didn't put a dud product on the field on purpose (& I'm not saying that you think this). Unfortunately his biggest blunders have been about control of the team. Saban. Knox. Polian. Then when he decided to cede power (Mort will tell you he still meddled daily) he hired Donahoe, another huge blunder. Ralph does care about the team/city, unfortunately he's had too many swings & misses.
JohnC Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Insults have been hurled in both directions for quite some time now. Say what you want about Ralph, but he didn't put a dud product on the field on purpose (& I'm not saying that you think this). Unfortunately his biggest blunders have been about control of the team. Saban. Knox. Polian. Then when he decided to cede power (Mort will tell you he still meddled daily) he hired Donahoe, another huge blunder. Ralph does care about the team/city, unfortunately he's had too many swings & misses. You are making my point about who is primarily responsible for the long-term struggling franchise. The decisions, especially over staffing, are the decisions that he himself made. The irony is that as the owner gets less involved with the football operation the greater the chance that the team will be successful. I'm very satisfied with the way the franchise is being operated by Nix. There is a coherency and direction in the way the franchise is being run instead of the erratic way it was done prior to his installation.
PromoTheRobot Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Insults have been hurled in both directions for quite some time now. Say what you want about Ralph, but he didn't put a dud product on the field on purpose (& I'm not saying that you think this). Unfortunately his biggest blunders have been about control of the team. Saban. Knox. Polian. Then when he decided to cede power (Mort will tell you he still meddled daily) he hired Donahoe, another huge blunder. Ralph does care about the team/city, unfortunately he's had too many swings & misses. +1. I think Ralph has things right now. PTR
K-9 Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 You are making my point about who is primarily responsible for the long-term struggling franchise. The decisions, especially over staffing, are the decisions that he himself made. The irony is that as the owner gets less involved with the football operation the greater the chance that the team will be successful. I'm very satisfied with the way the franchise is being operated by Nix. There is a coherency and direction in the way the franchise is being run instead of the erratic way it was done prior to his installation. Mr. Wilson himself has never refuted this claim and has on several occasions publicly placed the blame on his own shoulders. I'm not sure what the argument is then. RW himself agrees that a better owner would have yielded better results. But he's genuinely tried over his tenure to put a competitive team on the field. Perhaps not over the entirety of it, but certainly for most of it. He's in one of his up cycles now, it seems. GO BILLS!!!
Beerball Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 You are making my point about who is primarily responsible for the long-term struggling franchise. The decisions, especially over staffing, are the decisions that he himself made. The irony is that as the owner gets less involved with the football operation the greater the chance that the team will be successful. I'm very satisfied with the way the franchise is being operated by Nix. There is a coherency and direction in the way the franchise is being run instead of the erratic way it was done prior to his installation. I wasn't trying to argue with you.
JohnC Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) I wasn't trying to argue with you. I didn't consider it an argument. Simply a discussion. Edited May 28, 2012 by JohnC
Homey D. Clown Posted June 5, 2012 Author Posted June 5, 2012 I knew that stuff. I thought that maybe GB gave season ticket holders foot rubs during games, the way you were talking. PTR There is all kinds of proof. You just choose to ignore it. You don't even offer any evidence to support your argument. As for Buffalo being a big as Pittsburgh, Cleveland, etc. if you add Rochester, that's a game you can play with every market. (add Youngstown, Canton and Columbus to Cleveland and, poof, it's top 5!) The point is Neilsen ratings are the bible of TV advertising and officially Buffalo is #51, 2nd smallest in the NFL. And we keep dropping as other markets grow. PTR I do believe if you read through my original post, and following posts, you would find plenty of proof, NFL profit-sharing.... etc? You know, those cold hard facts you are blindly ignoring? But since you have bought into the fear-based BS that says the area can't support the team financially, you have been easily swayed into believing this will help keep the team in WNY. So, once all fans accept that their area can't afford the team any longer, there will be less pushback and backlash when they do pull the trucks out of Orchard Park. So keep drinking the cool-aid Russ Brandon is force feeding you, and get a front row seat ready to watch the moving trucks in the near future. I am not blind to the REAL facts, like WNY's population, the team's almost non existent operating costs when it comes to state based funding to maintain the stadium, and until just recently, one of the highest attendance metrics measured at the turnstyle, and please, PLEASE explain this toronto abomination to me, with facts, actual FACTS, that the team NEEDS to play a game in Toronto for anything OTHER than prepping that market for an NFL franchise. I am all ears... and let's not use the Mario Williams signing as a benefit to this garbage series, because the Bills as a franchise are not in the bottom half of the league when it comes to actual revenue, so that could have happened 3 times over.
PromoTheRobot Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 I do believe if you read through my original post, and following posts, you would find plenty of proof, NFL profit-sharing.... etc? You know, those cold hard facts you are blindly ignoring? But since you have bought into the fear-based BS that says the area can't support the team financially, you have been easily swayed into believing this will help keep the team in WNY. So, once all fans accept that their area can't afford the team any longer, there will be less pushback and backlash when they do pull the trucks out of Orchard Park. So keep drinking the cool-aid Russ Brandon is force feeding you, and get a front row seat ready to watch the moving trucks in the near future. I am not blind to the REAL facts, like WNY's population, the team's almost non existent operating costs when it comes to state based funding to maintain the stadium, and until just recently, one of the highest attendance metrics measured at the turnstyle, and please, PLEASE explain this toronto abomination to me, with facts, actual FACTS, that the team NEEDS to play a game in Toronto for anything OTHER than prepping that market for an NFL franchise. I am all ears... and let's not use the Mario Williams signing as a benefit to this garbage series, because the Bills as a franchise are not in the bottom half of the league when it comes to actual revenue, so that could have happened 3 times over. Facts. That's a good one. PTR
apuszczalowski Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 I do believe if you read through my original post, and following posts, you would find plenty of proof, NFL profit-sharing.... etc? You know, those cold hard facts you are blindly ignoring? But since you have bought into the fear-based BS that says the area can't support the team financially, you have been easily swayed into believing this will help keep the team in WNY. So, once all fans accept that their area can't afford the team any longer, there will be less pushback and backlash when they do pull the trucks out of Orchard Park. So keep drinking the cool-aid Russ Brandon is force feeding you, and get a front row seat ready to watch the moving trucks in the near future. I am not blind to the REAL facts, like WNY's population, the team's almost non existent operating costs when it comes to state based funding to maintain the stadium, and until just recently, one of the highest attendance metrics measured at the turnstyle, and please, PLEASE explain this toronto abomination to me, with facts, actual FACTS, that the team NEEDS to play a game in Toronto for anything OTHER than prepping that market for an NFL franchise. I am all ears... and let's not use the Mario Williams signing as a benefit to this garbage series, because the Bills as a franchise are not in the bottom half of the league when it comes to actual revenue, so that could have happened 3 times over. You do realise that the reason why they have an almost non existent operating cost is because RALPH WILSON HAS NOT DEBT WITH THIS TEAM BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN OWNER THE ENTIRE TIME THIS TEAM HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE AND THE TEAMS VALUE HAS INCREASED FROM THOUSANDS TO ALMOST A BILLION? Now I know that Buffalo and WNY is just overflowing with billionaires that are just looking to invest in NFL franchises that they can buy in cash and not have to take out debt for. You also realise that the NFL and its teams don't make much profit from the gate attendance, that money is part of the revenue sharing pool, the money is made in the sale of luxury suites to businesses and company sponsors. Of course none of this is based in facts, well facts that would support your theory that Buffalo is a booming economy that most NFL teams would be envious of and don't need to try and expand the market to include those lower class dirty Canadians that just want to steal the team away. I just wish that I didn't have to live in Reality and could live in the world were your "facts" come from
Lurker Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 You do realise that the reason why they have an almost non existent operating cost is because RALPH WILSON HAS NOT DEBT WITH THIS TEAM BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN OWNER THE ENTIRE TIME THIS TEAM HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE AND THE TEAMS VALUE HAS INCREASED FROM THOUSANDS TO ALMOST A BILLION? Now I know that Buffalo and WNY is just overflowing with billionaires that are just looking to invest in NFL franchises that they can buy in cash and not have to take out debt for. You also realise that the NFL and its teams don't make much profit from the gate attendance, that money is part of the revenue sharing pool, the money is made in the sale of luxury suites to businesses and company sponsors. Of course none of this is based in facts, well facts that would support your theory that Buffalo is a booming economy that most NFL teams would be envious of and don't need to try and expand the market to include those lower class dirty Canadians that just want to steal the team away. I just wish that I didn't have to live in Reality and could live in the world were your "facts" come from Pretty easy to smack down that guy's rant...
BillnutinHouston Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) please, PLEASE explain this toronto abomination to me, with facts, actual FACTS, that the team NEEDS to play a game in Toronto for anything OTHER than prepping that market for an NFL franchise. I am all ears... and let's not use the Mario Williams signing as a benefit to this garbage series, because the Bills as a franchise are not in the bottom half of the league when it comes to actual revenue, so that could have happened 3 times over. McKinley, did you see that a poster here, "Offsides Number 76" reported in the lease thread that he heard Poloncarz speak to a group on Monday, and that Poloncarz publicly stated "Ralph Wilson is absolutely committed to a lease that will keep the Bills in Buffalo long-term, no matter who the future owner may be. According to Poloncarz, RW is very passionate about that particular point." Thoughts? If Ralph was not committed to WNY, why would he consistently seek only MODEST stadium upgrades from Erie County? Why not go for the whole enchilada? If Ralph was not committed to WNY, why would he continue to fight for small market teams in his 90's? I have to wonder how many posters here come from heavily unionized backgrounds with deeply imbedded mistrust for "the man" and don't get outside of WNY very much to appreciate how small the WNY market is compared to most of the rest of the country. If you're going to look for patterns in Ralph's behavior, look at ALL the behavior. An honest discussion requires that you don't ignore the facts that differ with your misconceptions. And finally, I was looking forward to your response to my post on the previous page. Edited June 6, 2012 by BillnutinHouston
BRAWNDO Posted June 8, 2012 Posted June 8, 2012 McKinley, did you see that a poster here, "Offsides Number 76" reported in the lease thread that he heard Poloncarz speak to a group on Monday, and that Poloncarz publicly stated "Ralph Wilson is absolutely committed to a lease that will keep the Bills in Buffalo long-term, no matter who the future owner may be. According to Poloncarz, RW is very passionate about that particular point." Thoughts? If Ralph was not committed to WNY, why would he consistently seek only MODEST stadium upgrades from Erie County? Why not go for the whole enchilada? If Ralph was not committed to WNY, why would he continue to fight for small market teams in his 90's? I have to wonder how many posters here come from heavily unionized backgrounds with deeply imbedded mistrust for "the man" and don't get outside of WNY very much to appreciate how small the WNY market is compared to most of the rest of the country. If you're going to look for patterns in Ralph's behavior, look at ALL the behavior. An honest discussion requires that you don't ignore the facts that differ with your misconceptions. And finally, I was looking forward to your response to my post on the previous page. These are good points.
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