A specific question about squeezing more productivity from Young

[caracara]

I never knew Young suffered depression.

 

Nobody knew VY suffered from depression until it was publicly diagnosed/discussed by a very concerned Jeff Fisher, his chums in the Nashville PD and the Titans front office. Not even VY. He was quite shocked and surprised to hear that he was suicidal and suffered from depression. But it was confirmed again today by Fisher's pal Merril Hoge. Vince is a fragile, basket case. Stay tuned for more revelations from the same trustworthy sources.

[jumbalaya]

bills fans against VY -- football is a team sport, he only won because of the team around him.

 

average bills fans -- football is a team sport, Fitz lost because he is average and the team around him sucked.

 

most football gurus -- you can not win consistently without a great QB.

I think this means that VY has to be good because he won consistently. Number don't lie.

 

Big questions for Buffalo QBs - can Fitz win with a good team around him? We will know soon as this team is as loaded as its been in years. Can VY emerge - Fitz will have to fail early or get hurt for us to find out.

 

Pressure and the wrong coach will make anyone a loser.

Pressure and the right coach can make anyone a winner.

Chan seems like the right kind of coach for VY and for Fitz. Let each guy play to his strengths, mix the run and pass, set up plays with previous plays, keep the defense guessing.

 

Personally I think this is the year to put the money on the long-shot Bills to make the Super Bowl. Time to toss $100 on it.

[Cynical]

Nobody knew VY suffered from depression until it was publicly diagnosed/discussed by a very concerned Jeff Fisher, his chums in the Nashville PD and the Titans front office. Not even VY. He was quite shocked and surprised to hear that he was suicidal and suffered from depression. But it was confirmed again today by Fisher's pal Merril Hoge. Vince is a fragile, basket case. Stay tuned for more revelations from the same trustworthy sources.

 

Yep. One gigantic conspiracy.

Who do we have now:

 

Jeff Fisher

Jeff Fisher's coaching staff

The Titans front office

Merrill Hoge (Is ESPN in on this also, or just Hoge?)

The Nashville PD

Almost forgot, you did mention the Mayor's office. For clarification, was the mayor himself a part of the conspiracy? Or just his staff?

 

You may have to supply us a score card so we can keep track of all these people who were out to get/smear Vince Young.

 

Secondly, you might want to do some research on male depression. Depression is not like a cold. You do not wake up one day and say "Wow, I am suffering from depression."

 

It is quite common for the depressed person to not even realize it. So it will be a "shock" to them when they do find out.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Cynical

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Nobody knew VY suffered from depression until it was publicly diagnosed/discussed by a very concerned Jeff Fisher, his chums in the Nashville PD and the Titans front office. Not even VY. He was quite shocked and surprised to hear that he was suicidal and suffered from depression. But it was confirmed again today by Fisher's pal Merril Hoge. Vince is a fragile, basket case. Stay tuned for more revelations from the same trustworthy sources.

 

Sorry, no interest. This very topic of conversation - Vince's past and who should the fingers point at - is the sort of distraction many of us were concerned about when the signing was announced.

 

That was then, this is now. I don't care what VY suffered from in the past and whether it was real or a creation of the head coach.

 

I care about 3 things:

1) is he healthy now - mentally and physically - and investing whatever part of his $2 million plus bennies salary to ensure that he stays that way through the season?

2) will he "take care of business" this year - buckle down and accept and work hard at his assigned role on the team, which is to compete for the #2 slot?

3) is he toting around bales of baggage, such as concern to "set the record straight" as to what really happened 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 years ago, or is he ready to check that luggage at the station and focus on now?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Secondly, you might want to do some research on male depression. Depression is not like a cold. You do not wake up one day and say "Wow, I am suffering from depression."

It is quite common for the depressed person to not even realize it. So it will be a "shock" to them when they do find out.

 

This Pay attention please TBD peeps.

 

Depressed people in general, but men especially, will try to "put a good face on" with their friends and fam. A guy's friends will often "jolly over" the warning signs too, and if the guy says something indicating he's struggling, they'll try to buck him up with "oh, everyone gets down sometimes, you'll get through it".

 

Depression is often a fatal disease for young men because they tend to use firearms rather than pills. Pills generally allow more time to counteract the effects than well-aimed ballistics.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Hopeful

[Sisyphean Bills]

Sorry, no interest. This very topic of conversation - Vince's past and who should the fingers point at - is the sort of distraction many of us were concerned about when the signing was announced.

 

That was then, this is now. I don't care what VY suffered from in the past and whether it was real or a creation of the head coach.

 

I care about 3 things:

1) is he healthy now - mentally and physically - and investing whatever part of his $2 million plus bennies salary to ensure that he stays that way through the season?

2) will he "take care of business" this year - buckle down and accept and work hard at his assigned role on the team, which is to compete for the #2 slot?

3) is he toting around bales of baggage, such as concern to "set the record straight" as to what really happened 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 years ago, or is he ready to check that luggage at the station and focus on now?

 

The "born leader" angle is refuted a bit here.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81d86a08/article/titans-had-to-cut-young-who-now-has-soulsearching-to-do

 

It is also worth noting that Bud Adams released Young before he evaluated the coaching situation of his team, so the idea that the owner supported Young completely against a coach that was determined to ruin an otherwise innocent bystander is obvious specious. Not to mention that Fisher's motives, that he didn't want Young on draft day, are purely speculative versus a body of evidence that Young simply was unreliable and unmotivated in honing his craft as a QB.

 

But as far as Young in Buffalo, you are exactly right, Hopeful. The real question is has Young matured any from his past flame out? Or does he still have that Ryan Leaf cockiness, the attitude that had him assuring the media that he's the franchise savior and doesn't need to look at the playbook cause he's got it all figured out?

 

The contrast between the Bills QBs in night and day. We now have a guy that is a student of the game but has some physical limitations and a guy with off the charts physical ability that refused to put in the effort and apply himself. Too bad Chan isn't a Frankenstein surgeon who could take the best parts and reassemble himself a great QB...

[Hplarrm]

What Chan does well is assess the strengths of a player and put them in situations to maximize their talents. He did this with Kordell, he allowed Kordell to play to his own strengths, run the ball when required etc. I also thought at the time he had simplified the offense to the point where Yancey Thigpen was the primary read and if it wasn't there progress to check down or start running. When Thigpen got hurt productivity went down. It didn't help that the other receivers were dropping balls either. Over time Kordell did not improve his accuracy or his decision making and the Steelers let him go.

I think it is a good sign when qb's under a coach have career years, it says the coach can bring out the best in a player. I think Chan has that track record, and I look forward to what he can do with VY. I think OBD are probably looking at VY as a poor man's Cam Newton; if they can make him into something in a year great, if not they move on.

That's another nice feature of our good ol' boys north; if you can't play you're not going to hang around.

Many thanks for providing me with some insight and information in response to my specific question! its great for this Bills fan that TSWprovides such wonderful access to folks who share the same affection for the Bills but have a different set of experiences and focus on other football points which can be drawn upon!

 

It does simply come with the territory that in order to access these nuggets of wisdom and different experiences than I had, one also prompts a bit of off topic conversation about who was to blame in regard to the psychodrama played out in TN between Fisher and VY.

 

The good news for Bills fans is not only is the situation for VY with the Bills totally different than his situation with the Titans but even better by agreeing to a one year deal this not only simplifies but makes all the inputs for VY point to flying right and not being a team irritant in his "last" chance FA deal, but also if he proves to be a miscreant, the Bills can cut him without any bad cap hit,

 

The Bills will likely have choice between showing him the money if he performs or aimply cutting him if he does not or is a cancer.

 

The "born leader" angle is refuted a bit here.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81d86a08/article/titans-had-to-cut-young-who-now-has-soulsearching-to-do

 

It is also worth noting that Bud Adams released Young before he evaluated the coaching situation of his team, so the idea that the owner supported Young completely against a coach that was determined to ruin an otherwise innocent bystander is obvious specious. Not to mention that Fisher's motives, that he didn't want Young on draft day, are purely speculative versus a body of evidence that Young simply was unreliable and unmotivated in honing his craft as a QB.

 

But as far as Young in Buffalo, you are exactly right, Hopeful. The real question is has Young matured any from his past flame out? Or does he still have that Ryan Leaf cockiness, the attitude that had him assuring the media that he's the franchise savior and doesn't need to look at the playbook cause he's got it all figured out?

 

The contrast between the Bills QBs in night and day. We now have a guy that is a student of the game but has some physical limitations and a guy with off the charts physical ability that refused to put in the effort and apply himself. Too bad Chan isn't a Frankenstein surgeon who could take the best parts and reassemble himself a great QB...

But the relatively small one yeat contract simply make it as easy as possible to cut Young if he does not perform well or if he performs well but is a cancer. I actually have little worries that VY is going to a good scout because if the Bills cut him for being an idiot his market value goes way down. We are in the drivers seat on this one.

[MyHorseAteTheKid]

Vince Young's horribly low score on the Wonderlic intelligence test — reportedly 6 of a possible 50 — makes it hard for me to believe he will ever be more than a bench warmer in Buffalo - Do you think Fitz will have him over to discuss world financial matters?

[K-9]

The "born leader" angle is refuted a bit here.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81d86a08/article/titans-had-to-cut-young-who-now-has-soulsearching-to-do

...

 

Well. This just confirms my suspicion that Mike Lombardi and NFL.com are part of the conspiracy against Vince Young.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Sisyphean Bills]

But the relatively small one yeat contract simply make it as easy as possible to cut Young if he does not perform well or if he performs well but is a cancer. I actually have little worries that VY is going to a good scout because if the Bills cut him for being an idiot his market value goes way down. We are in the drivers seat on this one.

It's human nature to be a little cautious in new situations. Our ancestors that weren't were most likely eaten by big lions.

 

Anyway, I'm not convinced that VY is going to be any better at learning the offense here than he was last year, etc. We'll see, but I don't expect miracles to happen just because its Buffalo.

 

...

 

Well. This just confirms my suspicion that Mike Lombardi and NFL.com are part of the conspiracy against Vince Young.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Yep, he's an innocent bystander. Add Andy Reid to the list of co-conspirators!

[eball]

It's human nature to be a little cautious in new situations. Our ancestors that weren't were most likely eaten by big lions.

 

Anyway, I'm not convinced that VY is going to be any better at learning the offense here than he was last year, etc. We'll see, but I don't expect miracles to happen just because its Buffalo.

I expect if VY beats out Pigpen, we'll see a dumbed-down playbook for VY if/when he needs to enter a game. Similar to what Denver did for Tebow.

[Sisyphean Bills]

I expect if VY beats out Pigpen, we'll see a dumbed-down playbook for VY if/when he needs to enter a game. Similar to what Denver did for Tebow.

And of course it looks like they are giving him a press conference ... sigh.

[K-9]

... Yep, he's an innocent bystander. Add Andy Reid to the list of co-conspirators!

 

Right. Like Andy Reid knows anything about offensive schemes and molding QBs to play them.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Hplarrm]

It's human nature to be a little cautious in new situations. Our ancestors that weren't were most likely eaten by big lions.

 

Anyway, I'm not convinced that VY is going to be any better at learning the offense here than he was last year, etc. We'll see, but I don't expect miracles to happen just because its Buffalo.

 

 

 

 

The key to this situation is that with the Titans VY was living in a situation where TN had chosen to invest a huge draft pick (and pay him a salary commesurate with his pick) and all signs point to VY not being able to deal well with this pressure.

 

In his situation with the Bills, not only does he not bear the weight of having the franchises' future resting on his narrow shoulders, but heck he ain't even the starter.

 

To make matters double cool for the Bills, if VY fails to perform (no history of that) or performs on the field but is a cancer off of it then the Bills can easilt cut him. VY not only is not being subjected to the same outside pressure, but all the internal pressure demands he fly right first of all.

 

Many folks (the mainstream media primary amongst them) paniced when TO was signed predicting immediate doom. They forget that part of being a cancer is that first you have to perform well to be loved by half the team and fans.

 

All ibjective signs point to this being a smooth year for VY. If folks are right that he will be an immediate cancer or meltdown it simply makes it easier to cut him. If VY is a problem it will not happen til next offseason.

[Sisyphean Bills]

The key to this situation is that with the Titans VY was living in a situation where TN had chosen to invest a huge draft pick (and pay him a salary commesurate with his pick) and all signs point to VY not being able to deal well with this pressure.

 

In his situation with the Bills, not only does he not bear the weight of having the franchises' future resting on his narrow shoulders, but heck he ain't even the starter.

 

To make matters double cool for the Bills, if VY fails to perform (no history of that) or performs on the field but is a cancer off of it then the Bills can easilt cut him. VY not only is not being subjected to the same outside pressure, but all the internal pressure demands he fly right first of all.

 

Many folks (the mainstream media primary amongst them) paniced when TO was signed predicting immediate doom. They forget that part of being a cancer is that first you have to perform well to be loved by half the team and fans.

 

All ibjective signs point to this being a smooth year for VY. If folks are right that he will be an immediate cancer or meltdown it simply makes it easier to cut him. If VY is a problem it will not happen til next offseason.

Dude, I have an issue with defending bringing players in because the contract makes them "easy to cut". This is the Chris Kelsay argument all over again. CK's extension was "great" to some, not because he brought anything to the team, but because the financials let the team "dump him at any time" and not get stung too bad.

 

WTF. Don't you like winning football games?

 

There are no "ibjective signs" yet. The guy hasn't even had his press conference (did they have one for Thigpen?) for crying out loud.

[Smears]

Gailey has demonstrated in the past that he was able to take a tremendous athletically gifted but raw unconventional QB Kordell Stewart and alter his play style and massage his offense to get unprecedented solid production out of Kordell (actually less production from this slash player in terms of his individual stats but better production from him in terms of his teams W/L which actually is the most meaningful stat).

 

What did Gailey do to achieve this result?

 

There is an obvious though in the end fairly meaningless racial similarity between the two, but I am curious if there are more relevant issues which deal with the game.

 

Overall, I am pretty unconcerned about the VY as an idiot cancer, since quite frankly this 1 year deal puts the cards in the Bills hands as the general possibilities are that if he is an idiot he is easy to cut and a positive for the Bills management as they get a chance to discipline a player who is more interested in himself than the team.

 

On the other hand, if VY were to reverse his past personality (doubtful though possible in this sport) then the Bills can make a judgement whether he is worth the huge amount that the market demands for a successful starting QB.

 

If there is ever a VY issue it will be next year and not this one as all the dynamics push VY toward the same situation TO had in his one season as a Bill, despite the immediate whining of some that he was poisonm back here in reality TO realized that he needed to be productive on the field and generally fly right his first year.

 

There are simply few ways for VY to become a cancer as this strongly implies winning the hearts of some teammates and fans so the team becomes divided. VY has to both productive on the field and a good guy in the locker room before he could actually divide the team.

 

Those who whine the loudest about him are merely providing proof if they are right that he is such an idiot he will never earn enough respect from any fans or teammates to divide us.

 

What I am interested in is a football question of whether there is anything to be learned from Gailey's handling of Kordell (which I never studied so please correcr me with some numbers if his work was not successful) for handling a player like VY.

Id like to believe that his attitude wont be a factor because he is walking into a locker room where alot of these guys have bonds from 3 or 4 years now. You always hear the Bills say how close these guys are.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

The Bills will likely have choice between showing him the money if he performs or aimply cutting him if he does not or is a cancer.

 

 

But the relatively small one yeat contract simply make it as easy as possible to cut Young if he does not perform well or if he performs well but is a cancer. I actually have little worries that VY is going to a good scout because if the Bills cut him for being an idiot his market value goes way down. We are in the drivers seat on this one.

I guess I don't see it quite that way. VY is here to compete and win the backup qb job. OBD feels they can win games with him running the offense in that capacity. With the oline not quite there yet and obviously thigpen is not seen as the answer (or we wouldn't be having this conversation), VY is an insurance policy against injury. I don't think he's going anywhere this year because of the one year deal, and I'd be surprised if they keep him for longer even if he does well unless he can run something more than a gimmick or watered down offense.

 

OBD seems like they are going all in on making the playoffs, and getting a decent veteran Qb who can win a few games was on the to-do list. Hopefully Chan and the coaching staff can make Buddy and his OBD elves look like geniuses.