jjamie12 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 this is the same concept of freedom slave owners gave or how feudal societies tried to justify their position. you see, you count initial capital as ownership, but you dont let actual people and their own bodies/mind have freedom. capitalism was the labor movement of the agrarian age, a man and his family worked their farm and had a justified right to their labor as it was sold on the market. industry is now entirely collaborative, and now capitalism has created non-labor income class simply because you start something with a little money and then take from others the rest of the way. never mind tons of big business gets made up money through the fed or the fractional reserve system... imagine if i started a lemonade company with literally 50$, and then it turns into a massive billion dollar company. this means i used 50$ to take billions through a !@#$ing retarded definition of private property. this is the equivalent of me giving you a tool belt, i build 10 houses, and now you own the houses. and then you sell the houses buy a million tool belts, and then those people build a whole city, and so on. this literally means through capitalism you can own a whole city hypothetically because you gave one person a tool belt. the classic example of risk also ignores that risk is relative to your wealth. when walmart starts a new restaurant, that is not the risk relative to the empathy driven example of good ole bob in the middle class taking out a major loan. not to mention, big business gets free tax money to cover loss and even profit. e.g. oil subsidies. given this example, there is literally no risk, or all the risk belongs to labor. you can now see why i want to punch fox business news anchors in the face. they spew propaganda... risk takers my ass! but even bobs example of risk is bound by math too. eventually, this risk is outdone by new and larger risk because of the contribution from labor. this happens very quickly. of course all of this obfuscates that many times big business just takes from labor and starts new business, creating even further alienation and stolen wealth. ie walmart starting a bank, or a bar, w/e... in short, all capitalism really comes down to is trying to justify non-labor income, or income through hierarchy and power, and not a real sense of the old capitalism where the farmer sold his goods he worked for. owning initial capital does not mean you own every facet of people and their labor after initial capital. just like owning land does not justify owning people and their labor. this is applying private property to yourself, but not other people. it has nothing to do with skill, or talent, but rather pure power and structuralism. Yes, this awful construct of capitalism has only decreased the living standards of people around the world! We need to shift away from capitalism so we can move back toward the good-old days of 1850. LET'S DO THIS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Yes, this awful construct of capitalism has only decreased the living standards of people around the world! We need to shift away from capitalism so we can move back toward the good-old days of 1850. LET'S DO THIS!!!! Cue the "Communism/Socialism is a really good idea, it just hasn't been done right" argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Yes, this awful construct of capitalism has only decreased the living standards of people around the world! We need to shift away from capitalism so we can move back toward the good-old days of 1850. LET'S DO THIS!!!! We're in a car about a mile behind the EU. They're driving towards a cliff and are flying off that cliff one car at a time. In our car the driver is saying "but that won't happen to us." Quick question........why?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Why would this happen? Any thoughts? Risk? http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/16/us-facebook-ipo-order-close-idUSBRE84F1A120120516 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Cue the "Communism/Socialism is a really good idea, it just hasn't been done right" argument. I'm sure socialism will be a huge success just as soon as they remove humans from the job of implementing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Why would this happen? Any thoughts? Risk? http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/16/us-facebook-ipo-order-close-idUSBRE84F1A120120516 From quick blurbs I've seen, FB has already reached peak subscription, and is now declining. The IPO will likely get driven up to absurd prices as everyone tries to get in on the action, but if growth does not pick up again the bottom will fall out. From that article, sounds like Street is pretty wary of Facebook. They should have gone public 5 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Facebook IPO is going to be on helluva bubble before it bursts Some people are going to get very rich very fast while most investors will lose money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 From quick blurbs I've seen, FB has already reached peak subscription, and is now declining. The IPO will likely get driven up to absurd prices as everyone tries to get in on the action, but if growth does not pick up again the bottom will fall out. From that article, sounds like Street is pretty wary of Facebook. They should have gone public 5 years ago. I also heard this morning that FB is having trouble getting ads on hand held devices. How many people surf FB with a hand held? I know I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Yes, this awful construct of capitalism has only decreased the living standards of people around the world! We need to shift away from capitalism so we can move back toward the good-old days of 1850. LET'S DO THIS!!!! it has. read john perkins confession of an economic hitman... the reason america has a great living standard is because we are built on slave labor and extortion overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 it has. read john perkins confession of an economic hitman... the reason america has a great living standard is because we are built on slave labor and extortion overseas. Actually, to say America is built on slave labour and overseas extortion is to belittle the efforts of millions who rolled up their sleeves and went to work to make America a power. However I suppose because someone wrote it, it must be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 the reason america has a great living standard is because we are built on slave labor and extortion overseas. Your knowledge of economics is matched by your knowledge of history. That is completely asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjamie12 Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) it has. read john perkins confession of an economic hitman... the reason america has a great living standard is because we are built on slave labor and extortion overseas. Totally agreed! There is no doubt that it was way better to live in Russia when they were the USSR and that living standards in China have only decreased since the so-called Communist gov't decided to introduce some capitalistic reforms -- those sellouts. You're totally right about the slave labor and extortion, too. People in Singapore, Korea, Brazil, India, China ... you name it! They'd all be better off without us as a trading partner. (Edit: I did read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" already. Thanks for the suggestion, though! I'm convinced that John Perkins is NOT a megalomaniac like other people said and that his book is a completely factual account of his time as a 'consultant' (yeah right -- more like a Weapon of Mass Consultancy -- I'd bet anything that Bain Capital had something to do with what was described as happening in Panama.) Edited May 18, 2012 by jjamie12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Interesting read someone posted at Zerohedge It seems so bizarre that a country once regarded as the freest, most economically enviable in the world would treat its productive citizens with such hostility. This is where Eduardo Saverin comes in. The Facebook co-founder, who finds himself a few billion dollars richer this week, recently renounced his US citizenship. And, to the intelligentsia, it’s not ‘fair’. ‘Saverin needs to pay his fair share! He owes America more,’ they whine, completely ignorant that the 30-year old is already forking over a $500+ million exit tax (which may end up in the billions). Apparently it’s not good enough that the company Saverin co-founded has created tens of thousands of jobs, spawned entire industries, and produced oodles of new millionaires. Oh yeah, it’s also made things damn easy for the CIA, NSA, and FBI. You’d think Uncle Sam would pin a medal on his chest. But no. Saverin left behind a lot of value and decided to move on to greener pastures in Singapore. Now the do-gooders in Congress are cooking up new legislation (the EX-PATRIOT Act) designed to permanently bar ‘renunciants’ like Saverin from re-entering the United States. It’s interesting that, rather than change their ways of doing business and introducing legislation that provides incentives for productive people to come here and stay here, they maintain policies that chase people away, and introduce new ones to lock the door after they’re gone. The lesson here (especially for natural-born citizens) is this: simply by accident of birth, you are born with a lifelong obligation that you never signed up for to finance the corrupt misdealings of the political class. And if you choose to abandon this obligation, they will bar you from ever entering your homeland again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Totally agreed! There is no doubt that it was way better to live in Russia when they were the USSR and that living standards in China have only decreased since the so-called Communist gov't decided to introduce some capitalistic reforms -- those sellouts. You're totally right about the slave labor and extortion, too. People in Singapore, Korea, Brazil, India, China ... you name it! They'd all be better off without us as a trading partner. (Edit: I did read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" already. Thanks for the suggestion, though! I'm convinced that John Perkins is NOT a megalomaniac like other people said and that his book is a completely factual account of his time as a 'consultant' (yeah right -- more like a Weapon of Mass Consultancy -- I'd bet anything that Bain Capital had something to do with what was described as happening in Panama.) Is this satire?? Interesting read someone posted at Zerohedge I bought a house up here earlier this month and am in escrow right now. What timing. The stories about how the houses are already jumping up in price here are all over the place. Now we bought in the East Bay not on the Peninsula but a high tide raises all ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Is this satire?? I bought a house up here earlier this month and am in escrow right now. What timing. The stories about how the houses are already jumping up in price here are all over the place. Now we bought in the East Bay not on the Peninsula but a high tide raises all ships. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Your knowledge of economics is matched by your knowledge of history. That is completely asinine. You say that because PPP is just a right wing gang bang. Marcell's ideas would make more sense if there was greater communist participation at PPP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Yes. I sometimes can't keep the players straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I sometimes can't keep the players straight. It helps if they have an avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 It helps if they have an avatar. I had him confused with fjl2nd who I could absolutely imagine saying something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I had him confused with fjl2nd who I could absolutely imagine saying something like that. I've confused them momentarily too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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