DC Tom Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 any loan can get a profit, the incentive is there. whether a business fails, free cash flow, low wages have nothing to do with this example because they cant diminish use value dummy , you cant preserve principal value when exploiting labor... what is so ironic, you !@#$tards are arguing against loans with interest... a major tenet in capitalism. Actually, you're the one that argued for loans without interest...that whole "capital can't recover more than the initial outlay of capital before it starts exploiting labor" and "capital has no risk, only labor." We're arguing just the opposite. yes, thats a major part of our current banking system, the fractional reserve system and the fed supplying free money.... Ah...so it's not capital per se, or loans per se, but the central banking system that you find enslaving. Which is why, when I loan you a hammer, I'm entitled to nothing in return. Care to explain how the Federal Reserve makes up imaginary money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 what is so ironic, you !@#$tards are arguing against loans with interest... a major tenet in capitalism. No, I'm making fun of you, and you're incapable of any type of financial or economic comprehension. Thats the only way you could have arrived at that conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 No, I'm making fun of you, and you're incapable of any type of financial or economic comprehension. Thats the only way you could have arrived at that conclusion. He's close to the breaking point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 He's close to the breaking point. close to? To quote the sage Ron White, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 To quote the sage Ron White, No, but you can poke at it with a pointy stick until it goes and loses its **** on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 No, but you can poke at it with a pointy stick until it goes and loses its **** on the internet. Please give it the Coo de graw. It's your cat toy, and the last thing I want is to interfere, but if you have any sense of decency, do him in. I don't want to steal your toy and do it myself. Probably because I refuse to read his novel length comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Please give it the Coo de graw. It's your cat toy, and the last thing I want is to interfere, but if you have any sense of decency, do him in. I don't want to steal your toy and do it myself. Probably because I refuse to read his novel length comments. I don't think you could. He's completely oblivious to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) I don't think you could. He's completely oblivious to reality. You have a point, but there are ways. Idiots always have a weakness. Edited June 9, 2012 by 3rdnlng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 You have a point, but there are ways. Idiots always have a weakness. Sometimes they aren't smart enough to recognize it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Actually, you're the one that argued for loans without interest...that whole "capital can't recover more than the initial outlay of capital before it starts exploiting labor" and "capital has no risk, only labor." We're arguing just the opposite. You enjoy making things up? i said profits are fine. loans with interest are fine. i said capital has different forms of risk, some of which have none... you have a reading comprehension problem.... what you are arguing for is a welfare system... Ah...so it's not capital per se, or loans per se, but the central banking system that you find enslaving. Which is why, when I loan you a hammer, I'm entitled to nothing in return. i never said you should get nothing, i said you get the value of your hammer plus interest. not a 10% claim on what i build forever..... once i pay back the 60 dollars, 50 plus 10$ interest, thats it... youre done... Care to explain how the Federal Reserve makes up imaginary money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 You enjoy making things up? i said profits are fine. loans with interest are fine. i said capital has different forms of risk, some of which have none... you have a reading comprehension problem.... what you are arguing for is a welfare system... No, that's not what you said. You said capital has no risk, all the risk is with labor: the idea of risk here makes no sense since the initial value of capital is nothing compared to the end result. in other words you are ignoring the larger risk from labor. you first need to show capital is productive in order to say risk, which we already proved capital is not productive, its simply an object separate from labor. [...] fundamentally initial loans from banks carry no risk,( one reason being there is no consideration as this money is created out of thin air), 1- the loan from the bank- the real source is no risk. the money is made up... actual risk belongs to labor because that work can never be gained back. whereas, the person taking out the loan has not done anything except take out fake money. i never said you should get nothing, i said you get the value of your hammer plus interest. not a 10% claim on what i build forever..... once i pay back the 60 dollars, 50 plus 10$ interest, thats it... youre done... No, you said I should get nothing for loaning you a hammer, because I already received a benefit from making the hammer: namely, a hammer. You said that if I expected anything in return for lending you my hammer, that I would be exploiting you. No, my reward for creating the hammer is: I have a !@#$ing hammer. What's my reward for letting you borrow my !@#$ing hammer? since you are not working, nothing. i simply give the hammer back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Parents & Children: Please do not feed the trolls. No. Because... No, but you can poke at it with a pointy stick until it goes and loses its **** on the internet. this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) No, that's not what you said. You said capital has no risk, all the risk is with labor: No, you said I should get nothing for loaning you a hammer, because I already received a benefit from making the hammer: namely, a hammer. You said that if I expected anything in return for lending you my hammer, that I would be exploiting you. all the other quotes refer to our banking system, which yes, have no risk. they create money out of thin air and are bailed out by the state or fed with more fake money... capital is inherently unproducitve after surplus value surpasses capital... labor is facutally and objectively creating new capital, wages, profits, and overhead by themselves... that is what i said. without labor it just sits there... you must have use value... yes capital has no risk in this process because labor is creating everything... this is like me giving joe blow 100$ and then you claim risk, wtf??? Edited June 9, 2012 by MARCELL DAREUS POWER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 all the other quotes refer to our banking system, which yes, have no risk. they create money out of thin air and are bailed out by the state or fed with more fake money... No, you specifically referred to me loaning you my hammer and having no claim above and beyond having my hammer returned. You were extremely specific and clear about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 DC Tom's correct on that assertion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 No, you specifically referred to me loaning you my hammer and having no claim above and beyond having my hammer returned. You were extremely specific and clear about that. tom, if i pay you back the value of your hammer plus 10$.... thats what i mean. sry for the miscommunication. i guess im an idiot. go ahead and say it... christ...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 tom, if i pay you back the value of your hammer plus 10$.... thats what i mean. sry for the miscommunication. i guess im an idiot. go ahead and say it... christ...! It wasn't a "miscommunication". You were excruciatingly clear on it. Now you're backtracking, in a feeble attempt to avoid looking like an ass. When, in truth, you're making yourself look like an even bigger ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 It wasn't a "miscommunication". You were excruciatingly clear on it. Now you're backtracking, in a feeble attempt to avoid looking like an ass. When, in truth, you're making yourself look like an even bigger ass. tom, in your feeble attempt, you are looking like an ass. i never said no profits, i said they cant go on forever, pointing out surplus value, ie unpaid labor towards capital... im simply advocating loans with interest, and once paid off, labor should own the means of production and compete in a market. what you want is a welfare system, supported by labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 tom, in your feeble attempt, you are looking like an ass. i never said no profits, i said they cant go on forever, pointing out surplus value, ie unpaid labor towards capital... im simply advocating loans with interest, and once paid off, labor should own the means of production and compete in a market. what you want is a welfare system, supported by labor. No, that's not what you said. I actually linked to your post earlier, so you could see exactly what you said. You said, exactly, "since you are not working, nothing. i simply give the hammer back." You specifically stated that I should not profit from loaning you the hammer. Keep denying it. You'll just make yourself look like an even bigger ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) No, that's not what you said. I actually linked to your post earlier, so you could see exactly what you said. You said, exactly, "since you are not working, nothing. i simply give the hammer back." You specifically stated that I should not profit from loaning you the hammer. Keep denying it. You'll just make yourself look like an even bigger ass. tom, when i said i give you the hammer back, i assumed you were smart enough to understand implied interest. even when it was not mentioned, i said this.... i kept saying loans are fine with interest, ive only been saying it now for over 2 weeks.... this is why i said your reward is nothing, nothing as far as use value... i never said, you should not get your hammer back... Edited June 10, 2012 by MARCELL DAREUS POWER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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