San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 No, no one needs to take up any causes. Keep the over-parenting out of these sports. These are grown men making their own decisions, fully aware of the brutality of the sport. If the thought bothers you that much, stop watching all sports. Every time a player in any sport steps on the field/court, they are lining themselves up for a potentially devastating injury. Dont mean to sound like Im attacking you, but this is getting ridiculous with the over-sensitivity, and the sentiment that we have to protect everyone from everything, even though they are choosing to do it. If NFL players were that concerned with brain damage, they would wear the more protective helmet. They, as grown men, choose not to. Be glad that the players enjoy the sport, and enjoy it yourself. Strongly disagree with your take, Doc. The NFL and pro football is developing an image problem. The concerns and perceptions of these concerns are very significant to the point where some are predicting the demise of the sport. The NFL can become proactive or like other sports before them (MLB, NBA, Boxing) pretend that there's no public consternation and let their market decline. The cause needs to be taken up for this reason (market protection/business) in addition to the very fact that avoiding head injuries with good, common sense measures is the right thing to do. The fact that coal miners go underground every day does not mean that they don't want better working conditions or that the industry shouldn't provide for better working conditions. Your reasoning is way off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Number 76 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 No, no one needs to take up any causes. Keep the over-parenting out of these sports. These are grown men making their own decisions, fully aware of the brutality of the sport. If the thought bothers you that much, stop watching all sports. Every time a player in any sport steps on the field/court, they are lining themselves up for a potentially devastating injury. Dont mean to sound like Im attacking you, but this is getting ridiculous with the over-sensitivity, and the sentiment that we have to protect everyone from everything, even though they are choosing to do it. If NFL players were that concerned with brain damage, they would wear the more protective helmet. They, as grown men, choose not to. Be glad that the players enjoy the sport, and enjoy it yourself. This position is unreasonable and ignores the middle ground. Just because the activity is voluntary doesn't mean that the league shouldn't do what is possible to minimize the risk of injury. That's the "cause." Of course there's a risk of injury, and of concussions specifically, in every sport. Even soccer, which is not known for a ton of physical contact. Rules are in place in that sport, and in considerably more violent sports like lacrosse, to minimize the chance of contact to the head and to minimize the damage that will occur if it happens. No hard padding would be a good idea to investigate; maybe some rules changes, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Former Bill Ross Tucker writing on Peter King's MMQB: Has the "Concussion Crisis" peaked? I've gotten a positive vibe from many of you when I turn over a few paragraphs of the column to players -- Eric Winston on being a free agent, Matt Light on retiring in recent weeks -- and I'll continue to do so when I think the time is right, or the topic good. The other day, I was on a SiriusXM NFL Radio show with Ross Tucker, the former NFL guard and special-teamer, and he had an interesting perspective on the topic of head trauma in the NFL, and I asked him to share his thoughts with you. His words: "The concussion issue in football, which has been such a hot topic in recent weeks, is one I take very seriously. Because I have a big head (literally, and hopefully not figuratively), I used it often throughout my football career, especially in the NFL ... sometimes even as a weapon. As a result, I read the latest concussion information, get the updates on the progress of the Sports Legacy Institute via email, and in fact have agreed to donate my brain to the Center for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy at Boston University School of Medicine upon my death. "That said, barring something totally unforeseen coming out of the research, I can't help but think that the issue is only going to get better from here, and that the worst of it is behind us at the NFL level. The 'crisis,' I believe, is likely overblown. It is my contention that the guys who played in the last four decades are the ones who are likely to suffer the most, whatever that ends up meaning to each individual. "Future players should be in much better shape, for a number of reasons. "For one, there is an awareness now about the issue of brain trauma and concussions that didn't exist during the years of smelling salts and 'seeing stars' or getting your 'bell rung.' A lot of positives have come out of that awareness, such as a protocol for how to handle concussions or even possible concussions, a new CBA that drastically limits the amount of overall hitting, new rules that protect defenseless players from hits to the head, a push for better equipment, and a dramatic culture change among the players and coaches regarding concussions that should only be enhanced as we move forward. "The net result of all of those positives combined at the NFL level should be a diminishing of overall contact, fewer defenseless players like quarterbacks and wide receivers taking dangerous shots to the head, fewer players either hiding or being unaware of the fact that they suffered a concussion, and hopefully zero players returning to action without being cleared medically following a concussion. And all of this while wearing better equipment as the league continues to make strides in that area as well. "I'm not minimizing concussions or brain trauma at all. Far from it. It just seems a logical conclusion that the NFL players who play in the 2010s, 2020s, and 2030s should be in better shape, at least cognitively, than the guys like me who played over the last 40 years before the awareness about head trauma increased with all the alarm bells of the last couple of years.'' <br style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/05/14/mmqb/index.html#ixzz1v6PoACfk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) Strongly disagree with your take, Doc. The NFL and pro football is developing an image problem. The concerns and perceptions of these concerns are very significant to the point where some are predicting the demise of the sport. The NFL can become proactive or like other sports before them (MLB, NBA, Boxing) pretend that there's no public consternation and let their market decline. The cause needs to be taken up for this reason (market protection/business) in addition to the very fact that avoiding head injuries with good, common sense measures is the right thing to do. The fact that coal miners go underground every day does not mean that they don't want better working conditions or that the industry shouldn't provide for better working conditions. Your reasoning is way off. This position is unreasonable and ignores the middle ground. Just because the activity is voluntary doesn't mean that the league shouldn't do what is possible to minimize the risk of injury. That's the "cause." Of course there's a risk of injury, and of concussions specifically, in every sport. Even soccer, which is not known for a ton of physical contact. Rules are in place in that sport, and in considerably more violent sports like lacrosse, to minimize the chance of contact to the head and to minimize the damage that will occur if it happens. No hard padding would be a good idea to investigate; maybe some rules changes, too. I should clarify that I agree the NFL should do what it can to protect it's players. I have a slight problem with the NFL, in that I believe any action taken is first and foremost to protect itself from future litigation under the guise of being concerned for the players. Even to the detriment of the game. My issue is with the prevailing thought through the first couple pages here, that the fans need to be concerned and not let their children play, and the idea that our culture will change and the sport will die. Let the NFL and more importantly the NFLPA deal with the issue. They will set the tone, and innovate the solution to make the game safer. In the meantime, keep your kids in sports and enjoy every minute of it. Additionally, the post you guys responded to was regarding the idea that people need to start a concussion controversy in other sports. If those players dont have a problem, keep our "civilian" noses out of it. Edited May 17, 2012 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I have a son and there is no way I will allow him to play football, at least as it exists in its present format. There's plenty of other sports/team activities that he can engage in that don't carry the same risk of devastating injury. As a fan, I used to love the big hits in football. But with what we've learned over the past few years with regards to CTE, I'm finding the idea of being a fan of the game less and less enjoyable. I think football, as it is currently constituted, is fundamentally flawed and will ultimately become a marginalized sport over the next twenty years. There's more than just the helmet issue too. For instance, the repetitive, seemingly innocuous, line-of-scrimmage impacts between linemen are also showing to be a contributing factor to CTE. Remove the big guys and you're left with a professional flag football passing league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I have a son and there is no way I will allow him to play football, at least as it exists in its present format. There's plenty of other sports/team activities that he can engage in that don't carry the same risk of devastating injury. As a fan, I used to love the big hits in football. But with what we've learned over the past few years with regards to CTE, I'm finding the idea of being a fan of the game less and less enjoyable. I think football, as it is currently constituted, is fundamentally flawed and will ultimately become a marginalized sport over the next twenty years. There's more than just the helmet issue too. For instance, the repetitive, seemingly innocuous, line-of-scrimmage impacts between linemen are also showing to be a contributing factor to CTE. Remove the big guys and you're left with a professional flag football passing league. I think this speaks volumes. And I think millions of parents are going to realize the same concerns as these findings become more publicized. The VAST majority of concussions occur at LOW impacts. Like those you describe between linemen. When you suffer one, the potential to suffer the next one is exponentially greater. Children with developing brains are EXTREMELY vulnerable to the effects of concussions on brain development. The most insidious thing about concussions, is that you may get one and not even be aware of it or, because the symptoms aren't severe enough to be readily observable. You "shake it off" and get back in the huddle. Most worrisome is the idea that it may take years before any adverse effects are realized. Worrisome stuff for any parent. The idea of football waning in popularity gets pooh-poohed a lot but like the long term effects of concussions, it may take a few decades before the cultural shift away from the game manifests. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Anyone have any experience with rugby? I watched a few matches on TV when I worked in England a couple of times. Those guys are big and powerful and as I recall helmet-less and dressed in sweaters and shorts. Do they wear any padding under their clothes? I wonder what the incidence of brain damage is among those athletes. This has been a very interesting exploration of the issue, thanks for all the comments. My son loves Rugby. It's all wrap and tackle, no big hits like in football. Because you don't have any shoulder pads or helmets. Maybe that's what they need to do in football. No shoulder pads or helmets, the big hits will go away right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 My son loves Rugby. It's all wrap and tackle, no big hits like in football. Because you don't have any shoulder pads or helmets. Maybe that's what they need to do in football. No shoulder pads or helmets, the big hits will go away right away. It ain't the big hits. It's the low impact hits. Particularly the repetitive low impact hits. Good point about helmets and pads. But as long as lineman are firing off the ball at the LOS, there will be concussions with or without them. Maybe if they started off in a scrum it would be different. But I don't see how that's practical. Great point about good tackling technique as well. That has saved a lot of broken necks over the years. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 No, no one needs to take up any causes. Keep the over-parenting out of these sports. These are grown men making their own decisions, fully aware of the brutality of the sport. If the thought bothers you that much, stop watching all sports. Every time a player in any sport steps on the field/court, they are lining themselves up for a potentially devastating injury. Dont mean to sound like Im attacking you, but this is getting ridiculous with the over-sensitivity, and the sentiment that we have to protect everyone from everything, even though they are choosing to do it. If NFL players were that concerned with brain damage, they would wear the more protective helmet. They, as grown men, choose not to. Be glad that the players enjoy the sport, and enjoy it yourself. Im leaning towards this. It seems that the effort is to not towards injury prevention, but injury elimination. And if thats your objective, then it really is a zero sum game where the end of the sport is the only thing that will meet that objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Im just going to leave this here for some of you... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_parent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) My son loves Rugby. It's all wrap and tackle, no big hits like in football. Because you don't have any shoulder pads or helmets. Maybe that's what they need to do in football. No shoulder pads or helmets, the big hits will go away right away. Wrap and tackle is how football players are supposed to be doing it to. It's the "Human Missile" technique, which has grown in popularity over the last 20 years, that is knocking guys out. If proper tackling technique was coached and enforced, there would be significantly less injuries. That is something I do believe should be policed, and I have sided with Gooddell on his punishments of offenders like Harrison and Merriweather. Outside of that one technique, the risk for injury in Rugby is even greater than American Football. Edited May 17, 2012 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) Im just going to leave this here for some of you... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_parent I'll preface my response by saying I like you as a poster, regardless of our disagreement on certain things. I also assume you've never been a parent. If I'm wrong on that, my apologies. That said, this is one of the most condescending posts I've seen around here. Also one of the most ignorant. Perhaps you need to better acquaint yourself with brain injuries. Particularly their effects on small, developing brains before you spout off about 'helicopter parents.' Whether you think it's a legitimate concern or not, there is no need to insult parents who do. Ever speak to a parent who's child suffered severe brain trauma as a result of playing little-league? As a result of a voluntary activity they thought was harmless outside of an occasional broken bone or sprain? I'm sure in your mind, it's just parents contributing to the 'p*ssification of America.' Fine. But until you've walked a mile in the shoes I've described above, you can't know WTF you're talking about on the subject of 'helicopter parents.' GO BILLS!!! Edited May 17, 2012 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Wrap and tackle is how football players are supposed to be doing it to. It's the "Human Missile" technique, which has grown in popularity over the last 20 years, that is knocking guys out. If proper tackling technique was coached and enforced, there would be significantly less injuries. That is something I do believe should be policed, and I have sided with Gooddell on his punishments of offenders like Harrison and Merriweather. Outside of that one technique, the risk for injury in Rugby is even greater than American Football. I disagree with you about the risk of injury is greater in Rugby than American Football. Every sport has some risk. Hell even walking has risk. If you don't want any risk then don't play any sports. Here is where I am different from probably many parents on this board. I think America is ridiculous with how they try to make everything sanitized and risk free. I personally like a little risk, it makes life more exciting. Life is risky, life on this planet always ends in death so no matter how safe you are, your going to die one day anyways. No exceptions. So I have always let my kids play sports that they chose. My daughter rode horses and got thrown off a few times. My son played soccer, football and lacrosse and didn't get injured at all. The only concussion my son received was when a mentally challenged kid who didn't know his own strength and size hit my son over the head with a stick. So if you want to live life in a sterile vacuum let society continue the way it is. Pretty soon everyone will be vacuum sealed in their livingroom living life via machines. Kinda like a few movies and books that have been written on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) I disagree with you about the risk of injury is greater in Rugby than American Football. Every sport has some risk. Hell even walking has risk. If you don't want any risk then don't play any sports. Here is where I am different from probably many parents on this board. I think America is ridiculous with how they try to make everything sanitized and risk free. I personally like a little risk, it makes life more exciting. Life is risky, life on this planet always ends in death so no matter how safe you are, your going to die one day anyways. No exceptions. So I have always let my kids play sports that they chose. My daughter rode horses and got thrown off a few times. My son played soccer, football and lacrosse and didn't get injured at all. The only concussion my son received was when a mentally challenged kid who didn't know his own strength and size hit my son over the head with a stick. So if you want to live life in a sterile vacuum let society continue the way it is. Pretty soon everyone will be vacuum sealed in their livingroom living life via machines. Kinda like a few movies and books that have been written on the topic. It's not about the random risks that are associated with any activity. The problem with football is that, due to the repetitive contact that is inherent in the sport, there really is no way to educate people about the risks in a way that they can prevent or limit their risk of suffering these head injuries. The game itself must be changed to eliminate these kind of collisions. Maybe this can be done by eliminating helmets and having the linemen stand at the line of scrimmage...I don't know. As far as the ethical questions and/or helicopter parenting, I frankly don't care what grown men choose to do with their bodies/minds. Once you are an adult you can make the choice to inflict the type of punishment upon yourself that football brings with it. But, with the scientific knowledge that is now available to us with regards to football and CTE, I don't see how in good conscience you can allow your child to be exposed to that environment. Edited May 18, 2012 by TheBrownBear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 It's not about the random risks that are associated with any activity. The problem with football is that, due to the repetitive contact that is inherent in the sport, there really is no way to educate people about the risks in a way that they can prevent or limit their risk of suffering these head injuries. The game itself must be changed to eliminate these kind of collisions. Maybe this can be done by eliminating helmets and having the linemen stand at the line of scrimmage...I don't know. As far as the ethical questions and/or helicopter parenting, I frankly don't care what grown men choose to do with their bodies/minds. Once you are an adult you can make the choice to inflict the type of punishment upon yourself that football brings with it. But, with the scientific knowledge that is now available to us with regards to football and CTE, I don't see how in good conscience you can allow your child to be exposed to that environment. Thing is, changes like that change the game to the point where it might not have the appeal it does now. Tackle football is a very violent game. If you take the violence out of it, would there be enough left to the game to have fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) Here's the bottom line in my opinion. 1) These players are fully aware of the risks of playing football at this point, and are more than fairly compensated for that risk. As others have pointed out, jobs like firefighters, miners, construction workers all have far more serious risks and consequences. 2) The NFL is and has been doing everything it can to try and prevent concussions. Major rule changes, seeking safer helmets, doctors, ect... 3) Sports of any kind, not just the NFL have serious risks of concussion. That will ALWAYS be the case, it's not something that can be eliminated just because we want to. Hockey has had SERIOUS concussion issues the last few years, even "non contact" sports like baseball and basketball have their share of concussions. So sure, do you your best to prevent and treat them, but to act like they can be stopped all together is ridiculous. Concussions are a risk of the sport, just like blown tendons and broken bones. It is what it is, and the conversation is far overblown IMO. 4) While I'm not denying there is the possibility of long term damage, it's not like a concussion is a guaranteed death sentence. I'm sure many of us here have experienced one in our sports playing days. Guys known for serious repetitive concussion problems like Steve Young and Troy Aikman have successful public announcing jobs and show no signs of long term damage. It's an injury, and like any other injury has the potential for long term damage. And come on, it's not like these guys are geniuses anyway.... Edited May 18, 2012 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 My son loves Rugby. It's all wrap and tackle, no big hits like in football. Because you don't have any shoulder pads or helmets. Maybe that's what they need to do in football. No shoulder pads or helmets, the big hits will go away right away. I watch a good amount of Rugby over here(UK) and I don't agree that their isn't big hits. Well, I should say it depends on the which Rugby you are playing, is it Rugby Union or League? I'm not sure what they play in the states. Internatinally, Union is what is generally played and this is where big hits DO happen. Also in Union, the Scrums are more important and can be brutal. I've witnessed them. Late hits happen A LOT, especially in the Ruck, players will dive in to go for the ball. League Rugby is more about scoring/speed. There's less players so the game is more spread out. Scrums and big hits don't happen as much. Generally, wrap in tackle is encouraged in all of Rugby. That doesn't mean a 6'8" Scotsman isn't going to lower his shoulder when a smaller winger or fullback is trying to tackle him. His shoulder will most certainly do some damage to the head. Not to mention, Rugby players are the definition of "tough guys." It's almost frowned upon when you come out of the game for an injury. So their isn't nearly as many safety measures in place like the modern NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I should clarify that I agree the NFL should do what it can to protect it's players. I have a slight problem with the NFL, in that I believe any action taken is first and foremost to protect itself from future litigation under the guise of being concerned for the players. Even to the detriment of the game. My issue is with the prevailing thought through the first couple pages here, that the fans need to be concerned and not let their children play, and the idea that our culture will change and the sport will die. Let the NFL and more importantly the NFLPA deal with the issue. They will set the tone, and innovate the solution to make the game safer. In the meantime, keep your kids in sports and enjoy every minute of it. Additionally, the post you guys responded to was regarding the idea that people need to start a concussion controversy in other sports. If those players dont have a problem, keep our "civilian" noses out of it. Agree Dr. While parents obviously have the final say over what their kid can or cannot do, to prevent your kind from playing sports because you are afraid of injury is selfish and not in the best interest of the child IMO. Had my parents tried to prevent me from playing sports I would have never forgiven them. Also, there is a HUGE difference in most grade school football with normal sized human beings, and the NFL with the abnormal freaks of nature that play today. Kids are far more likely to be seriously hurt driving cars at that age than playing high school football. Sports carry risks, driving cars carry risks, climbing stairs carry risks....Perhaps you can stick your kids in a bubble until they are 18 then let them loose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 one word: gazoo helmets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 one word: gazoo helmets I did the math like 3 times, I'm fairly certain that's two words... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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