Jim in Anchorage Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 This is why American football will ultimately come to end - a lot sooner than anyone thinks. Say what you want about retired NFL players suing the league, it is the death of the feeder system that will do the NFL in. When are the lawsuits against schools going to start? Does anyone think that schools are going to weather that storm? Does anyone think schools aren't going to buckle to the steady drumbeat of parents wanting to shut down the football program and forbidding their kids to play? Texas high schools can supply the entire NFL with players. Uh Huh. And NASCAR will die because parents don't want their kids in car crash's Really think about what you are saying. Can you imagine Ohio state shuting down it's football program because some pink faced new lawyer thinks he's got something new on the hazards of football? And how are you aware of this steady drumbeat of parents wanting to shut down the football program? I never hear that.
Tcali Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Anyone have any experience with rugby? I watched a few matches on TV when I worked in England a couple of times. Those guys are big and powerful and as I recall helmet-less and dressed in sweaters and shorts. Do they wear any padding under their clothes? I wonder what the incidence of brain damage is among those athletes. This has been a very interesting exploration of the issue, thanks for all the comments. rugby is a lot like playing football in the park or backyard as a kid.the guy doing the tackling knows hes gonna suffer just as much as the tacklee. spearing almost non-existent.and-- probbly the old time leather football helmet guys were in better shape after retirement than the modern football players.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Uh Huh. And NASCAR will die because parents don't want their kids in car crash's Really think about what you are saying. Can you imagine Ohio state shuting down it's football program because some pink faced new lawyer thinks he's got something new on the hazards of football? And how are you aware of this steady drumbeat of parents wanting to shut down the football program? I never hear that. Exactly. He's neglecting to include the vast amount of parents that re-live their glory days through their kids and push them into sports. And then the level headed ones that know that anything can kill you, so you might as well live. Go to a football game at a serious big time High School program and talk to some parents. The NFL is in no danger of losing it's feeders.
Alaska Darin Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 I think if every level of football got serious about steroids and HGH that the issue would be minimized quite a bit. These freakin' players today are huge and it's not because of nature. That said, I wouldn't allow my kid to play football now. It's no longer a contact sport, it's a collision sport. The size of the players at the high school level is unbelievable. There was some study recently that showed high school kids were basically involved in about 30 low speed car-accident level collisions at each practice. There's no way that doesn't take a toll on your long term well being. Go to a football game at a serious big time High School program and talk to some parents. The NFL is in no danger of losing it's feeders. Wait until high schools can't get insurance.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Wait until high schools can't get insurance. That is a much better argument than "parents wont allow it". We'll see. But if that is the way we're trending, then all organized sports will eventually die out. There is risk for major injury in every sport. Whether it's baseball, field hockey, even track. Cant wait until the entire country is hiding in their homes, only playing video games...
Alaska Darin Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Cant wait until the entire country is hiding in their homes, only playing video games... Drones in their homes. Protect us, government.
Mango Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Uh Huh. And NASCAR will die because parents don't want their kids in car crash's Really think about what you are saying. Can you imagine Ohio state shuting down it's football program because some pink faced new lawyer thinks he's got something new on the hazards of football? And how are you aware of this steady drumbeat of parents wanting to shut down the football program? I never hear that. Yup because every highschool has 3 stock car racing teams. And kids go to the park and race Toyota Camry's. These aren't similar. Would you let you 14 year old jump in a car with a restricter plate that tops it off at 150 and in the passenger seat is a guy holding his leg to the floor. It's ok there is a cage. I would however let my hs kid play football. I don't think the ge moves fast enough to create the issues we see in the NCAA or NFL Wait until high schools can't get insurance. This^^^^^^ Also I foresee state regulations at some point. Ie no organized football at Massachusetts public schools unti jr year or no organized football in the state until x age. The economics of the game at an early age will dwindle. Insurance companies stop insuring schools. A few generations go by and boom. No more nfl Again I would let my kid play ball. I am also a really Aerbobic athlete so soccer running and other fitness sports are my interest. I assume my kids will eventually be similar.
Alaska Darin Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 I would however let my hs kid play football. I don't think the ge moves fast enough to create the issues we see in the NCAA or NFL NCBI "The number of impacts per 14-week season varied by playing position and starting status, with the average player sustaining 652 impacts." 18 Year Old HS Football Player's Brain Already Showing Signs of CTE
Jim in Anchorage Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Exactly. He's neglecting to include the vast amount of parents that re-live their glory days through their kids and push them into sports. And then the level headed ones that know that anything can kill you, so you might as well live. Go to a football game at a serious big time High School program and talk to some parents. The NFL is in no danger of losing it's feeders. Very true. HS football- "My little Joey won the game!"[As they shove the local bee newspaper in your face to prove it.] " oh and Crystal made the cheerleading squad!" I think HS football will survive just fine. Some NFL player sucking the gas pipe is not going to change that.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 NCBI "The number of impacts per 14-week season varied by playing position and starting status, with the average player sustaining 652 impacts." Using rough numbers, 650 impacts x 8 years of Football... I'd take those 5200 hits over the chance to erase my injuries. Some of my favorite memories are lining up friends for huge hits during drills, and bringing the hammer down during games. Guess I should enjoy those memories while I have them.
Reed83HOF Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Not for nothing but think of all the stories every draft about X player growing up in the ghetto with his grandmother raising him and his 10 siblings in tiny house or it's their mom because their dad skipped town or is in jail... Those players will always be there - they feel it is their way out and their way to care for their family regardless of the sacrifice.
Alaska Darin Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Using rough numbers, 650 impacts x 8 years of Football... I'd take those 5200 hits over the chance to erase my injuries. Some of my favorite memories are lining up friends for huge hits during drills, and bringing the hammer down during games. Guess I should enjoy those memories while I have them. I don't have a problem with people continuing to play as long as I don't have to pay for them when they're 45 and drooling on themselves. Assume the risk, reap the rewards (positive and negative). I like being entertained.
nick in* england Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 The NFL is going nowhere. Injuries are a part of sport. There are a ton of sports anyone could name where injuries are rife and yet the sports endure. Rugby, Hockey, Horse Racing, Motor Racing, Soccer, Downhill Skiing, etc etc etc etc etc. Head injuries will not cause the end of the NFL but might dilute the talent pool in c50 years.
BringBackFlutie Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 True, but even soccer has concussion-related issues: http://www.soccernation.com/concussions-how-do-we-protect-our-soccer-players--cms-2349 I don't know how expensive or readily available it is for high school athletes, but I keep reading about how baseline testing is an important tool for improving player safety. One of my only two sport-related concussions came during a soccer practice in high school where I was goal-keeping on breakaways. I threw myself out there in front of the kick, and got kneed in the temple. All contact sports CAN be dangerous. Also, head injuries in football really could be drastically reduced if players would just follow the rules.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 I have to disagree with SDS. My view is that football will weather this storm because of: 1) improvements in equipment 2) increased protocols/precautions (ie-baseline testing) 3) rule changes many of which have already been instituted (deal with it people… consider the alternative) 4) a re-evaluation of football fundamentals such as tackling accompanied by a de-emphasis on the use of the head (helmet) as a weapon As I've stated numerous times, there are aspects to football where the violence is gratuitous… Warren Sapp's hit on Chad Clifton… the hit on Kurt Warner during the interception return, and numerous spearing and "excessive force" infractions. If you can't enjoy football without these elements, I would suggest that you're the person who can't watch auto racing without the crashes… or hockey games without the fights. I'll be perfectly happy watching a slightly less savage form of american football. It'll still be plenty brutal even with some of the changes. You'll still have great, hard-hitting games. You'll still have teams "imposing their will." What you'll lose is the criminally violent aspect which didn't even exist in the game until fairly recently.
Homer Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 For those that dont know, a concussion is a brain bruise,the brain is approximately the consistancy of a stiff custard pudding, think of the brain as a peanut in a shell, when you rattle it you get a bruise on one side but you also get a bruise on the opposite side causing twice the damage as most people think. Continuous concussions cause tearing and stretching of the neurons making thought (electrical and chemical)transmition difficult.
Russ Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 Millions of people die in car crashes every year, should they never be allowed in a car? Yes. I would say a couple more times for sure.
Wayne Cubed Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 All I can do is speak from personal experience, which I unfortunately have a lot of in this matter. Started playing football around 9 years old and had plenty of stingers and "bell rungs" in that time. Ive also had 6 fairly severe concussions in my life (which must explain a lot to many of you, haha). 2 in High School Football, 2 in High School Lacrosse, and 2 in College Rugby. The last one I had in college knocked me blind for about 45 minutes. I haven't played any sports since (11 years ago). And I can't really say which sport was "safest". I cant say I've ever noticed any major lingering issues. I completed my Chemistry, Calc, etc courses just fine, and currently hold a position with a technical firm that requires a large amount of memory and constant learning. Depression runs strong in one side of my family, yet Im not suicidal or even sad. Maybe something will develop later in life, but I'll cross that bridge if/when I come to it. I have a few friends that play soccer, and they've dealt with all sorts of issues as well. Concussions being one of them, with no helmet all it takes is catching an elbow or knee the right way. I would let my kids play any sport they want, knowing the risks. Millions of people die in car crashes every year, should they never be allowed in a car? How fearful of a society can we really evolve into? When does the fear become so great, that in guaranteeing your survival, you actually stop living? This. People have to also consider, Football is "top-dog" in American sports. It gets vast amounts of media coverage because of how popular it is. And of course with that extensive coverage, Football is constantly under a microscope. This is why the concussion issue is so big in Football, because of how popular the sport has gotten. You'd be a fool not to believe that concussions don't happen in other sports, but ask yourselves why those sports haven't fallen under the microscope? Media coverage and $$$.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 This is why American football will ultimately come to end - a lot sooner than anyone thinks. Say what you want about retired NFL players suing the league, it is the death of the feeder system that will do the NFL in. When are the lawsuits against schools going to start? Does anyone think that schools are going to weather that storm? Does anyone think schools aren't going to buckle to the steady drumbeat of parents wanting to shut down the football program and forbidding their kids to play? Texas high schools can supply the entire NFL with players. You could be right Scott, but I'm not sure where this steady drumbeat of parents is going to be coming from. I think Charlie the Tuna hears a soundbite on cognitive problems in retired players and thinks "aw, hell, lots of older guys get dementia anyway, how do they know it was football?" There's a very smart, good athlete in my daughter's school. He's about the size of a peanut and has played linebacker and QB on a tackle FB team since something like 3rd grade. He's had a concussion and a skull fracture as well as a bunch of other injuries. Doesn't seem to worry his parents at all. I think if every level of football got serious about steroids and HGH that the issue would be minimized quite a bit. These freakin' players today are huge and it's not because of nature. That said, I wouldn't allow my kid to play football now. It's no longer a contact sport, it's a collision sport. The size of the players at the high school level is unbelievable. There was some study recently that showed high school kids were basically involved in about 30 low speed car-accident level collisions at each practice. There's no way that doesn't take a toll on your long term well being. Wait until high schools can't get insurance. Dude, all these small town HS that are feeding the SEC and ACC....you think they have insurance now? All I can do is speak from personal experience, which I unfortunately have a lot of in this matter. Started playing football around 9 years old and had plenty of stingers and "bell rungs" in that time. Ive also had 6 fairly severe concussions in my life (which must explain a lot to many of you, haha). 2 in High School Football, 2 in High School Lacrosse, and 2 in College Rugby. The last one I had in college knocked me blind for about 45 minutes. I haven't played any sports since (11 years ago). And I can't really say which sport was "safest". I cant say I've ever noticed any major lingering issues. I completed my Chemistry, Calc, etc courses just fine, and currently hold a position with a technical firm that requires a large amount of memory and constant learning. Depression runs strong in one side of my family, yet Im not suicidal or even sad. Maybe something will develop later in life, but I'll cross that bridge if/when I come to it. I have a few friends that play soccer, and they've dealt with all sorts of issues as well. Concussions being one of them, with no helmet all it takes is catching an elbow or knee the right way. I would let my kids play any sport they want, knowing the risks. Millions of people die in car crashes every year, should they never be allowed in a car? How fearful of a society can we really evolve into? When does the fear become so great, that in guaranteeing your survival, you actually stop living? Very interesting, thoughtful post DrD. Question for you: you mention equal #s of injuries in 3 sports. Do you feel there's any merit to the argument that rugby has less concussions because of the lessened protective equipment? My friend's son played WR in football and Wing in rugby in HS and I have to say the rugby was scary to watch.
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