School 62 Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 I am caught in a hard dilemma. I love football on every level. I am a life-time Bills fan and I admit that I admire these athletes and have followed many of them over the years. Having played lots of football as a kid and high schooler, I am aware of the violence of the game and the courage and skill it takes to play it. I assume I am like most fans in that I don't want to see anyone hurt, but at the same time I know at any moment that a serious injury may occur that well might disable a player for life. I believe in fitness, rigorous training and whatever safety procedures and equipment is required to protect players from injury. At the same time, I am beginning to realize just how damaging the game is to its players and especially the frequency of head injuries which have long-term deleterious impacts on players and their families. I think the fact that this topic has become more openly talked about at the same time that we are seeing a huge increase in head injuries among our troops returning from Iraq and Afganistan has made us all more conscious of this problem and its human dimensions: young men (mostly) doing something we applaud and in the process experiencing devastating harm. My two sons both passed on football and played soccer in high school and college. According to their parents none of my four grandkids, will ever be allowed to play football. Soccer seems much less threatening to a player's long time health. I find soccer interesting but it just does not keep my attention. How do you think about with this dilemma of being a fan of a sport which has many positive features, but has this fly in the ointment that these talented young people may end up terribly wounded and worse?
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 . . . Soccer seems much less threatening to a player's long time health. . . . True, but even soccer has concussion-related issues: http://www.soccernation.com/concussions-how-do-we-protect-our-soccer-players--cms-2349 I don't know how expensive or readily available it is for high school athletes, but I keep reading about how baseline testing is an important tool for improving player safety.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) I am caught in a hard dilemma. I love football on every level. I am a life-time Bills fan and I admit that I admire these athletes and have followed many of them over the years. Having played lots of football as a kid and high schooler, I am aware of the violence of the game and the courage and skill it takes to play it. I assume I am like most fans in that I don't want to see anyone hurt, but at the same time I know at any moment that a serious injury may occur that well might disable a player for life. I believe in fitness, rigorous training and whatever safety procedures and equipment is required to protect players from injury. At the same time, I am beginning to realize just how damaging the game is to its players and especially the frequency of head injuries which have long-term deleterious impacts on players and their families. I think the fact that this topic has become more openly talked about at the same time that we are seeing a huge increase in head injuries among our troops returning from Iraq and Afganistan has made us all more conscious of this problem and its human dimensions: young men (mostly) doing something we applaud and in the process experiencing devastating harm. My two sons both passed on football and played soccer in high school and college. According to their parents none of my four grandkids, will ever be allowed to play football. Soccer seems much less threatening to a player's long time health. I find soccer interesting but it just does not keep my attention. How do you think about with this dilemma of being a fan of a sport which has many positive features, but has this fly in the ointment that these talented young people may end up terribly wounded and worse? There's been stuff about soccer causing brain injury in players who do a lot of headers This is just my opinion and I could be off base but I think the violence of the game has changed. It used to be all about "wrap and tackle" - hit with the shoulder, wrap with the arms. That's not as spectacular as a hit where you throw your body into the play, head first. Those make the big hits that wind up in the highlight reels. So a lot more players have been going for the "head first" hit instead of the "wrap and tackle", right down to the HS level. (Of course, if you miss the big hit, the body shot results in a missed tackle and more yards, where as the wrap-and-tackle usually at least slows the guy down to where other players can get there) One thing I like about the Bills rebuilding is they seem to be coaching fundamental sound tackling now Edited May 10, 2012 by Hopeful
Chandemonium Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 True, but even soccer has concussion-related issues: http://www.soccernation.com/concussions-how-do-we-protect-our-soccer-players--cms-2349 I don't know how expensive or readily available it is for high school athletes, but I keep reading about how baseline testing is an important tool for improving player safety. Don't know about other schools, but I played hockey and lacrosse in high school and we did baseline testing at the beginning of the season for both sports starting in my senior year. I graduated in 2006 so it's been available at the high school level for at least 6 years. The test itself was a bunch of simple puzzles and other problems done on the computer to test speed and accuracy of different cognitive processes. If you were suspected of having a head injury, you did the test again and couldn't play until you did as well as you did on your baseline test.
Toshiero Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 I have no issues. Don't intentionally hit guys in the head. You can make massive, Sportscenter making hits without going to the head. Also toughness is one thing, stupidty is the another. Many Highschool coaches are morons and need to wake up.
CodeMonkey Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) There was a segment on the evening news last night about soccer and concussions. It is apparently a big problem with girls because their necks are not strong enough and they tend to be borderline reckless going for 50/50 balls. Not as big of a problem with boys. Certainly nowhere near tackle football. My wife is a nurse and we have neighbors who are doctors, one is a head trauma specialist. Neither of my boys were allowed to play tackle football, only flag when they were very young. Simply not worth the risks. I am not really a football fan, I am a Bills fan strictly. I have no guilt watching the players hurt themselves and each other. They are adults making a conscious decision to play a game for big money they know is likely to decrease the quality of their lives later in life. I do, however, not like it when I see kids playing full contact tackle football. 99% of them are not going on to the NFL and big $$$. They are risking the rest of their lives for nothing. Edited May 10, 2012 by CodeMonkey
SDS Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 According to their parents none of my four grandkids, will ever be allowed to play football. This is why American football will ultimately come to end - a lot sooner than anyone thinks. Say what you want about retired NFL players suing the league, it is the death of the feeder system that will do the NFL in. When are the lawsuits against schools going to start? Does anyone think that schools are going to weather that storm? Does anyone think schools aren't going to buckle to the steady drumbeat of parents wanting to shut down the football program and forbidding their kids to play? Texas high schools can supply the entire NFL with players.
Mr. WEO Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 This is why American football will ultimately come to end - a lot sooner than anyone thinks. Say what you want about retired NFL players suing the league, it is the death of the feeder system that will do the NFL in. When are the lawsuits against schools going to start? Does anyone think that schools are going to weather that storm? Does anyone think schools aren't going to buckle to the steady drumbeat of parents wanting to shut down the football program and forbidding their kids to play? Texas high schools can supply the entire NFL with players. Texas, Georgia, Alabama, Florida....same as today. By week 2 (allowing for some Junior Seau moments of silence in week 1), this topic will be forgotten by the football loving public.
CodeMonkey Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) This is why American football will ultimately come to end - a lot sooner than anyone thinks. Say what you want about retired NFL players suing the league, it is the death of the feeder system that will do the NFL in. When are the lawsuits against schools going to start? Does anyone think that schools are going to weather that storm? Does anyone think schools aren't going to buckle to the steady drumbeat of parents wanting to shut down the football program and forbidding their kids to play? Texas high schools can supply the entire NFL with players. I never looked at it from the feeder perspective, but I cannot disagree. Not just a shortage of future players either, but future fans as well. With fewer kids playing that could mean fewer following the game as adults. Edited May 10, 2012 by CodeMonkey
MDH Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 This is why American football will ultimately come to end - a lot sooner than anyone thinks. Say what you want about retired NFL players suing the league, it is the death of the feeder system that will do the NFL in. When are the lawsuits against schools going to start? Does anyone think that schools are going to weather that storm? Does anyone think schools aren't going to buckle to the steady drumbeat of parents wanting to shut down the football program and forbidding their kids to play? Texas high schools can supply the entire NFL with players. You might be right. I've been a big football fan my entire life but my son won't be allowed to play football either. There are just so many other sports he can play that are a lot safer for his long term health. From talking to other parents this seems to be a pretty common thought process nowadays at least in my area.
CodeMonkey Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 By week 2 (allowing for some Junior Seau moments of silence in week 1), this topic will be forgotten by the football loving public. But not by parents.
shrader Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 This is why American football will ultimately come to end - a lot sooner than anyone thinks. Say what you want about retired NFL players suing the league, it is the death of the feeder system that will do the NFL in. When are the lawsuits against schools going to start? Does anyone think that schools are going to weather that storm? Does anyone think schools aren't going to buckle to the steady drumbeat of parents wanting to shut down the football program and forbidding their kids to play? Texas high schools can supply the entire NFL with players. We're definitely standing at the edge, very close to a point where there are going to be broad changes across professional sports. Some will eventually die but I don't think it will be the NFL. They're going to figure out what they need to change.
Chandemonium Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 I understand where you guys who think this is the beginning of the end for football are coming from, but I don't see it happening. 100 years ago players were literally dying on the field and football didn't go anywhere. Keeping in mind that back then football was essentially a niche sport compared to what it is today, I just can't see how the end of football is upon us. If it could survive player deaths when it didn't have widespread popularity, I don't see how it will collapse now that it is the country's most popular sport by far. The game will adjust and continue to thrive, just like it did then. I'm not saying it won't look drastically different in 50 or 100 years, but American tackle football in some form will always be around IMO.
K-9 Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) We're definitely standing at the edge, very close to a point where there are going to be broad changes across professional sports. Some will eventually die but I don't think it will be the NFL. They're going to figure out what they need to change. There is nothing the NFL can change short of disallowing tackling and blocking that will have any more than a minimal impact on brain trauma injuries. GO BILLS!!! Edited May 10, 2012 by K-9
Mango Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Go to wrestling head gear. Eliminate the shoulder pads. Substitute something like the under armor you wear under hockey pads. Watch the injuries dissipate. I agree it may not be in my generation but my great grand kids most likely won't see the nfl. It will be sad but it is the reality of the situation
Jerry Jone's Toupee Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 The romans used to love watch gladiators fight to the death as entertainment and was finally found socially un-acceptable. I can see pro football as we know it extinct by the turn of the century.
School 62 Posted May 10, 2012 Author Posted May 10, 2012 Go to wrestling head gear. Eliminate the shoulder pads. Substitute something like the under armor you wear under hockey pads. Watch the injuries dissipate. I agree it may not be in my generation but my great grand kids most likely won't see the nfl. It will be sad but it is the reality of the situation Anyone have any experience with rugby? I watched a few matches on TV when I worked in England a couple of times. Those guys are big and powerful and as I recall helmet-less and dressed in sweaters and shorts. Do they wear any padding under their clothes? I wonder what the incidence of brain damage is among those athletes. This has been a very interesting exploration of the issue, thanks for all the comments.
Offside Number 76 Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Go to wrestling head gear. Eliminate the shoulder pads. Substitute something like the under armor you wear under hockey pads. Watch the injuries dissipate. Works for rugby. Sure, there still are injuries, some of them severe, but there's nowhere near the head trauma. I don't see how the forward pass necessitates such drastically different equipment.
NoSaint Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Works for rugby. Sure, there still are injuries, some of them severe, but there's nowhere near the head trauma. I don't see how the forward pass necessitates such drastically different equipment. are the long term effects actually different on the head? i know its a popular talking point, but i havent seen data really. i understand the idea behind it though. not trying to call you into question, as much as an actual curiousity.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) All I can do is speak from personal experience, which I unfortunately have a lot of in this matter. Started playing football around 9 years old and had plenty of stingers and "bell rungs" in that time. Ive also had 6 fairly severe concussions in my life (which must explain a lot to many of you, haha). 2 in High School Football, 2 in High School Lacrosse, and 2 in College Rugby. The last one I had in college knocked me blind for about 45 minutes. I haven't played any sports since (11 years ago). And I can't really say which sport was "safest". I cant say I've ever noticed any major lingering issues. I completed my Chemistry, Calc, etc courses just fine, and currently hold a position with a technical firm that requires a large amount of memory and constant learning. Depression runs strong in one side of my family, yet Im not suicidal or even sad. Maybe something will develop later in life, but I'll cross that bridge if/when I come to it. I have a few friends that play soccer, and they've dealt with all sorts of issues as well. Concussions being one of them, with no helmet all it takes is catching an elbow or knee the right way. I would let my kids play any sport they want, knowing the risks. Millions of people die in car crashes every year, should they never be allowed in a car? How fearful of a society can we really evolve into? When does the fear become so great, that in guaranteeing your survival, you actually stop living? Edited May 10, 2012 by DrDareustein
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