Can Someone on the Left Explain

[DC Tom]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_bottom#Political_theory

 

Wikiwarrior, ho!

[fjl2nd]

I don't know how to quoute people on my phone but it's intended for OC. I apologize for not readng your initial post more throughly.

 

There is the problem that government won't use the money efficiently. It doesn't change the fact we have the world's biggest economy and love to consume goods.

 

How is the 15% killing us? Do you have some numbers to back this claim? Investment dropping? Foreigners LOVE to invest here.

[Bigfatbillsfan]

look up the coal wars in w virginia in the 20's....private armies masquerading as detective agencies. just one example.

 

and this relates to the felon garnering votes in wv. it was mostly to protest obama's coal positions.

 

 

Or how about the draft card riots. It got to the point where the Navy had to shell the city to put them down.

 

 

 

 

Yeah you're right. Hard things suck.

 

Come on then. Let's here your plan. How are we going to get those people off cash assistance? You must have a plan to fix it if you brought it up right?

[OCinBuffalo]

I don't know how to quoute people on my phone but it's intended for OC. I apologize for not readng your initial post more throughly.

 

There is the problem that government won't use the money efficiently. It doesn't change the fact we have the world's biggest economy and love to consume goods.

 

How is the 15% killing us? Do you have some numbers to back this claim? Investment dropping? Foreigners LOVED to invest here.

 

Fixed

 

Foreigners are well on their way to loving investing elsewhere...and not for nothing, so are our investors.

 

Bottom line: it's nearly impossible to raise money right now....and you want to make it harder?

[fjl2nd]

I don't really want to raise the rate right now. I was pointing out that 20% is not out of the question given a stronger economy.

 

People still invest more money here than anywhere else. Don't believe the hype.

[OCinBuffalo]

I don't really want to raise the rate right now. I was pointing out that 20% is not out of the question given a stronger economy.

 

People still invest more money here than anywhere else. Don't believe the hype.

 

ahh...so it's back to "longitudinal stupidity" rather than "immediate stupidity" huh?

[GG]

When looking at the United States, why do you only look at tax rates? Countries have more to offer than just tax rates. Just because a tax rate is lower in one country does not mean you will go invest there. People still love the United States! You want to punish our beloved country by lowering their tax revenue for no reason.

 

You're right, it's not just tax rates. It's the overall attitude towards private enterprise and the recognition that the private sector creates the wealth & capital formation that our esteemed TPS makes fun of. Because then you have to wonder why the US with a small fraction of the global population still accounts for about 1/4 of output. Wonder if we can rest on our laurels, join the sclerotic Euro classes, or fight for the future.

 

Maybe this will send somebody a strong message:

 

"Procter & Gamble Co. [/url]is relocating its global skin, cosmetics and personal-care unit from its Cincinnati headquarters to Singapore, following a decision to base the business in the fast-growing Asia beauty market.

....

Deb Henretta, currently group president for Asia, will succeed Ms. Drosos. P&G's vice president for Japan, Hatsunori Kiriyama, will succeed Ms. Henretta, marking the first time P&G has put an Asian leader in charge of the Asian business. "

 

While the total jobs moving (20) are rather small, the symbolism is huge. Rest of the story

 

Nothing to see here folks, move along.

[fjl2nd]

You're right, it's not just tax rates. It's the overall attitude towards private enterprise and the recognition that the private sector creates the wealth & capital formation that our esteemed TPS makes fun of. Because then you have to wonder why the US with a small fraction of the global population still accounts for about 1/4 of output. Wonder if we can rest on our laurels, join the sclerotic Euro classes, or fight for the future.

 

Maybe this will send somebody a strong message:

 

"Procter & Gamble Co. [/url]is relocating its global skin, cosmetics and personal-care unit from its Cincinnati headquarters to Singapore, following a decision to base the business in the fast-growing Asia beauty market.

....

Deb Henretta, currently group president for Asia, will succeed Ms. Drosos. P&G's vice president for Japan, Hatsunori Kiriyama, will succeed Ms. Henretta, marking the first time P&G has put an Asian leader in charge of the Asian business. "

 

While the total jobs moving (20) are rather small, the symbolism is huge. Rest of the story

 

Nothing to see here folks, move along.

 

So, Asia has a better and faster-growing beauty market. Thanks for the information.

[Nanker]

Are you sure about the impact on 401ks and pensions? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but those entities don't pay any taxes on retirees' funds, so the capital gains tax is irrelevant for those funds. Income taxes are paid once someone starts collecting on pensions and 401ks at retirement.

 

 

And "capital formation"? That term is so 1990s.

 

As for this entire welfare debate, I thought Clinton and the Republicans "ended welfare as we know it?" There are limits on eligibility and there are work requirements now. Since it's been pushed down to the states, there are some differences by state, but didn't the notion of permanent welfare queens die in 1996?

 

WTF are you talking about? Of course those funds pay taxes - and a huge part of it is capital gains/loss taxes/credits - both long term and short term. Those are made up in large part of mutual funds - the manager of which continually buys and sells shares of stocks and other securities. Each transaction gets taxed at the appropriate rate long or short term. You do know what the short term capital gains tax is - don't you? You want to raise that too? Well, it is "capital gains" after all! You increase the capital gains rates and EVERY mutual fund - whether it's in a qualified plan or not will lose NAV. Furthermore it'll just suck money out of the economy to fund an out-of-control federal government that can't keep itself from building bridges to Asshatville.

[Juror#8]

Not really seeing I said in my post that they're not being used as they were designed. I meant by many people, not all. See I used them for exactly what they were designed for. See the difference. I said that there were many, many people that got little or no support from their families. $6,000 is a little support.

 

But regarless good job explaining why these short term temporary support programs have became lifetime lifestyles.

 

That's the point (bolded statement above). Most use the system for what it's indended for - short term sustenance until opportunity or serendipity happens. Many take advantage of the system. But then again, many take advantage of good will, charity, pregnant cows, and double-tips on already instated 15% gratuity for parties of 6 or more.

 

Doesn't mean we should get rid of those things. Maybe a tweak; maybe reformation - but abandonment of a program that has accomplished it's stated objective (for good folks like yourself and your wife) more than it has served as a conduit though which JaQuita, Big Debo and Little Minus Sign can replenish their 40 oz. stash, is both strong medicine and over-reach.

 

You and your family are both the proof and the pudding.

 

BTW...haven't voted for a Dem since Clinton (well there was that Steny Hoyer mistake in 2000...but anyway...) so I'm definitely not "on the left" but I do agree with managed social programs so I thought that I'd opine...

[uncle flap]

So where was all that social unrest prior to the social programs?

 

Right here:

 

Or if you'd prefer to read about it, here: Great Depression Articles via the University of Michigan

[Chef Jim]

Or how about the draft card riots. It got to the point where the Navy had to shell the city to put them down.

 

 

 

Come on then. Let's here your plan. How are we going to get those people off cash assistance? You must have a plan to fix it if you brought it up right?

 

Not get people off the plan. Crack down on the fraud though audit and needs analysis.

[Jauronimo]

So, Asia has a better and faster-growing beauty market. Thanks for the information.

That's what a complete dolt could discern from those articles. Since you fancy yourself as some type of budding economist, you may want to read deeper and see that demand is skyrocketing in China and much of Southeast Asia for luxury goods, not just cosmetics. The growing middle class and wealthy classes are looking to join the game and desire the same creature comforts that their American and European counterparts enjoy. The auto industry is paying particularly close attention to China, where millions of licensed drivers are waiting for the chance to own a car.

 

According to a few reputable sources, private equity investment in China and SEA surpassed investment in the US. Its not just China driving PE investment either. Indonesia is the hot market in 2012.

 

Shrug it off if you'd like, but American and European investors are looking East right now.

[WorldTraveller]

That's what a complete dolt could discern from those articles. Since you fancy yourself as some type of budding economist, you may want to read deeper and see that demand is skyrocketing in China and much of Southeast Asia for luxury goods, not just cosmetics. The growing middle class and wealthy classes are looking to join the game and desire the same creature comforts that their American and European counterparts enjoy. The auto industry is paying particularly close attention to China, where millions of licensed drivers are waiting for the chance to own a car.

 

According to a few reputable sources, private equity investment in China and SEA surpassed investment in the US. Its not just China driving PE investment either. Indonesia is the hot market in 2012.

 

Shrug it off if you'd like, but American and European investors are looking East right now.

Based off of the body of work he has provided, not by any stretch of the imagination could any sound thinking person possibly consider him to be "a budding economist".

[fjl2nd]

That's what a complete dolt could discern from those articles. Since you fancy yourself as some type of budding economist, you may want to read deeper and see that demand is skyrocketing in China and much of Southeast Asia for luxury goods, not just cosmetics. The growing middle class and wealthy classes are looking to join the game and desire the same creature comforts that their American and European counterparts enjoy. The auto industry is paying particularly close attention to China, where millions of licensed drivers are waiting for the chance to own a car.

 

According to a few reputable sources, private equity investment in China and SEA surpassed investment in the US. Its not just China driving PE investment either. Indonesia is the hot market in 2012.

 

Shrug it off if you'd like, but American and European investors are looking East right now.

 

That is one of our main problems here and I don't think anybody has an actual solution to the problem. The Republicans have came up with nothing here. Lowering taxes I guess? And the Democrats approach of just taxing the wealthy isn't going to work. We need more income equality here or wages needs to go up. They have been stagnant for years.

 

China is going to be a player in the coming years as their economy grows. They still have a way to go to get the reputation of the U.S. We are going to have to get better at things we are good at - higher education, energy policy, tourism, etc.

 

Based off of the body of work he has provided, not by any stretch of the imagination could any sound thinking person possibly consider him to be "a budding economist".

 

I love this place. Haha. I don't consider myself a "budding economist" by any means. I do enjoy researching and talking about it though. I start my Masters in Applied Economics in the fall!

[WorldTraveller]

That is one of our main problems here and I don't think anybody has an actual solution to the problem. The Republicans have came up with nothing here. Lowering taxes I guess? And the Democrats approach of just taxing the wealthy isn't going to work. We need more income equality here or wages needs to go up. They have been stagnant for years.

 

China is going to be a player in the coming years as their economy grows. They still have a way to go to get the reputation of the U.S. We are going to have to get better at things we are good at - higher education, energy policy, tourism, etc.

 

 

 

I love this place. Haha. I don't consider myself a "budding economist" by any means. I do enjoy researching and talking about it though. I start my Masters in Applied Economics in the fall!

I didn't say that you did, just merely making an observation.

 

[GG]

That is one of our main problems here and I don't think anybody has an actual solution to the problem. The Republicans have came up with nothing here. Lowering taxes I guess? And the Democrats approach of just taxing the wealthy isn't going to work. We need more income equality here or wages needs to go up. They have been stagnant for years.

 

China is going to be a player in the coming years as their economy grows. They still have a way to go to get the reputation of the U.S. We are going to have to get better at things we are good at - higher education, energy policy, tourism, etc.

 

 

 

I love this place. Haha. I don't consider myself a "budding economist" by any means. I do enjoy researching and talking about it though. I start my Masters in Applied Economics in the fall!

 

GOP has focused on more than taxes. But all you read about the GOP platform is taxes. Wonder why that is?

 

The issue remains that if US is to take a disproportionate share of global output and wealth creation (there's that word again), you cannot have a government in place and regulations that are hostile to private enterprise. Between the two parties, which one is more friendly to investing and private sector growth?

[poo]

Why is it if the social programs that you hold so dear are there to temporarily support those who cannot support themselves until they can get on their feet is used by these folks for years, decades or even generations while many others who have made a very nice life for themselves did so with little or no support of said social programs? To me that just points to the failure of those programs and they're not being used as they were designed. And don't give me that crap that those that made it didn't need the government because they had support of their families. That may be true for some but there are many, many, many others who got no or little support from their family but made it on their own and made it quite well. Me for example. I needed $12k to go to Culinary School. Dad gave me $6k and I took a loan for the other $6k. I've relied on very little of those social programs. Maybe a few months when I and my wife was unemployed but that was it. I think we'd find many others here with similar stories.

 

So explain how these programs work??

 

As a contrary example, my parents were dirty hippies and divorced in my 19th year. I had no money to go to college, I was on my own so I took a job working as a dishwasher. I got **** flung on me for two years until I was promoted to a slightly better **** job position. During all this time I continued to study history on the side, reading textbooks for fun and to keep my mind sharp. After some few years of working I was able to go back to college when my grandparents decided to pay for my community college. They cut me off after four semesters as an A student. I didn't blame them or think less of them, it was their money. I did have to take out loans though and get TAP and Pell support for my tuition and housing in order to finish my education. I am now an award winning historian in my program and am on track to graduate with an MA in American History in the next year or two.

 

I am a person who used these state and national offerings (Tap and Pell Grants) to make myself better. I feel that they are very useful, as might be expected given my experience. I am a little surprised to hear you say you got little support from your family when $6k is quite a bit of support, I got a similar amount for two years of community college and there are certainly some who have gotten less from their families. I am not here to cast aspersion, even though you'll notice I received a similar amount but came to a different conclusion about the necessity of state support. I believe in social programs and I make no apologies for believing in them, they have assisted me to be better then a permanent suds monkey.

[Shamrock]

Please don't ask me to explain what's going on in Australia, the Union of Socialist States, Australa... USSA.

[OCinBuffalo]

As a contrary example, my parents were dirty hippies and divorced in my 19th year. I had no money to go to college, I was on my own so I took a job working as a dishwasher. I got **** flung on me for two years until I was promoted to a slightly better **** job position. During all this time I continued to study history on the side, reading textbooks for fun and to keep my mind sharp. After some few years of working I was able to go back to college when my grandparents decided to pay for my community college. They cut me off after four semesters as an A student. I didn't blame them or think less of them, it was their money. I did have to take out loans though and get TAP and Pell support for my tuition and housing in order to finish my education. I am now an award winning historian in my program and am on track to graduate with an MA in American History in the next year or two.

 

I am a person who used these state and national offerings (Tap and Pell Grants) to make myself better. I feel that they are very useful, as might be expected given my experience. I am a little surprised to hear you say you got little support from your family when $6k is quite a bit of support, I got a similar amount for two years of community college and there are certainly some who have gotten less from their families. I am not here to cast aspersion, even though you'll notice I received a similar amount but came to a different conclusion about the necessity of state support. I believe in social programs and I make no apologies for believing in them, they have assisted me to be better then a permanent suds monkey.

The question you have to ask yourself: how many others are willing to work as a dish washer to get where they need to go?

 

Per the premise of this thread: you helped yourself with these programs. Chef wants to know about those who won't.

 

 

I want to know about why we are loaning big money to 32-year old students, who have never worked in their field. I also want to know why we are loaning money to "identity-studies" people who have 0 chance of getting a job anywhere, other than race-hustling, NOW, or another identity-based government/business fleecing organization.

 

Why should we give these people tax money, so that they can spend their lives demanding more tax money?

Edited May 16, 2012 by OCinBuffalo