Would you trade Fitz for ....

[billsfan89]

If I had to do the NFC

 

Eli Manning- Yes (The guy is clutch)

RGIII- Yes (Tons of potential)

Vick- No (I don't think the guy is durable enough)

Romo- Maybe (Guy fits really well in Gailey's system)

 

Stafford- Yes (Questions about health but the guy is a stud)

Ponder- No (Could be something someday but just hasn't shown enough)

Rodgers- Yes (Top 5 NFL QB duh)

Cutler- Maybe (Cannon arm and somewhat mobile but can he work within Gailey's system)

 

Newton- Yes (While I think he is a tad bit overrated I think what he will develop into is special)

Freeman- No (Flashes potential but just not consistent)

Brees- Yes (Top 5 NFL QB duh)

Ryan- Yes (I think he is a very good QB and young enough to improve)

 

Smith- No (Prototypical average NFL QB who needs a lot of talent and the right system)

Bradford- Maybe (Too injury prone never been a fan of the guy but the potential is there)

Kolb- No (Hasn't shown much)

Flynn- No (Lots of speculation but not a lot of substance)

 

7- Yes

3- Maybe

6- No's

 

I had similar 50/50 numbers in the AFC. All this did was prove that Fitz is a mid level QB with a ceiling to be a lower top 10 guy (First 7 games of last season you can't tell me he wasn't playing at a top 10 level) and a basement of being a bottom tier QB.

 

Surround the guy with talent and the right system and he will have success. If Fitz is successful this season we then have a two year window to draft a QB and develop him under Fitz. If he isn't than we have to go in another direction.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Flynn is a no, but otherwise that's about right.

 

Is this a revelation? I think most fans who take off the homer blinders acknowledge that Fitz is somewhere in the 3d quartile of NFL QBs.

 

Yeah, I guess it is a revelation. My reaction is "you gotta be kiddin' me" to far more than Flynn.

 

I don't think I have blinders - where Fitz is depends on what parameters you look at, but it's solidly middle of the pack. Top middle by some measures, bottom middle by other measures.

 

What puzzles the heck out of me is why people think a QB like Carson Palmer, who is 32 and has all of the swipes against him that Fitz has over the last 3 years, would be better. Better by what measure? Games won? Ints per game played this past year? Ints per game played last year? YPA? Completion percentage? Yards? It seems like "reverse homer blinders", as if any QB the Bills regard well must automatically be worse than everyone else. Ditto for totally unproven rookies who weren't regarded as "sure bets", who have limited college game experience or something else against them. Ditto for a guy like Bradford who came in as a #1 prospect. I still think he's potentially a good QB and has suffered from revolving OCs, but right now he has most of the swipes against him that Fitz has. He has upside Fitz lacks-he has a great arm, but downside too - he was sacked an awful lot last year, and some of that was just hanging on to the ball too long, gotta ask why. Can he read and react at NFL speeds?

 

It almost seems as though many (not intended as a poke at you specifically, KD, speaking generally) who complains about "homer blinder" has reverse blinders themselves and can't see that by most rational criteria, Fitz is what he is until he (or rookies, or other QBs) prove otherwise - a solid, middle of the pack NFL starter, not elite, and not "only 3 QB I wouldn't trade for him including unproven rookies, struggling former 1st round draft choices, and Carson Palmer".

 

OK I'm done now.

 

7- Yes

3- Maybe

6- No's

 

I had similar 50/50 numbers in the AFC. All this did was prove that Fitz is a mid level QB with a ceiling to be a lower top 10 guy (First 7 games of last season you can't tell me he wasn't playing at a top 10 level) and a basement of being a bottom tier QB.

 

Surround the guy with talent and the right system and he will have success. If Fitz is successful this season we then have a two year window to draft a QB and develop him under Fitz. If he isn't than we have to go in another direction.

 

Pretty much this, but you said it so much better than I did

Edited May 6, 2012 by Hopeful

[BobChalmers]

I doubt you're high (note spelling), just insane. Fitz is a career backup QB.

 

That's just silly hating.

 

Obviously, by definition, Fitz is not a "backup" QB. He's a well-paid starter. You can say you wish he wasn't one, or you don't think he should be one, but to argue he isn't a starter is to argue with reality. (something one tends to associate with people who are "high", btw... )

 

By stats, he's basically an average starter. We absolutely should be looking for chances to upgrade, but he's better than plenty of QB's out there. Again - he's pretty average.

 

Last year he put up some pretty nice numbers for a guy with busted ribs half the season, and although it's fair to say Gailey runs a QB-friendly offense, given how many people were convinced the Bills needed to add a 3-time alcohol offender WR from Notre Dame with the 10th overall pick, I doubt you want to argue Fitz was aided by an elite receiving corps.

Edited May 6, 2012 by BobChalmers

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I love this place. People claiming they would not trade Fitz straight up for Luck or RG3 or even some of the proven top QBs in the league.

Nothing wrong with being a homer I guess

 

I have never said "I'm through with this team" before. But if Indy offered the Bills a Fitz for Luck trade straight up and the Bills declined, I would be through with the team.

 

Can't disagree with this. I would trade straight up for Luck, RGIII, and a number of other QB on that list. About half of them.

[Bronc24]

That's just silly hating.

 

Obviously, by definition, Fitz is not a "backup" QB. He's a well-paid starter. You can say you wish he wasn't one, or you don't think he should be one, but to argue he isn't a starter is to argue with reality. (something one tends to associate with people who are "high", btw... )

 

By stats, he's basically an average starter. We absolutely should be looking for chances to upgrade, but he's better than plenty of QB's out there. Again - he's pretty average.

 

Last year he put up some pretty nice numbers for a guy with busted ribs half the season, and although it's fair to say Gailey runs a QB-friendly offense, given how many people were convinced the Bills needed to add a 3-time alcohol offender WR from Notre Dame with the 10th overall pick, I doubt you want to argue Fitz was aided by an elite receiving corps.

 

Hating means I hate and wish no success. I want him to win a SB. I just don't think he can do it, regardless of who is around him. Do you think if you plugged Fitz into the Pats, they go to the SB last year?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I would trade Fitz for a fried baloney sandwich. I have ZERO feelings for the guy.

 

Good luck with that fried baloney sandwich calling signals for your team, bub.

[Bronc24]

Can't disagree with this. I would trade straight up for Luck, RGIII, and a number of other QB on that list. About half of them.

 

Exactly. Just because we can look objectively and wish we were better at a position doesn't mean we wish no success on the current player. I'd like to do better. Pure and simple.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Exactly. Just because we can look objectively and wish we were better at a position doesn't mean we wish no success on the current player. I'd like to do better. Pure and simple.

 

I agree with you, Marauder, until we have pro-bowlers at every position we should be looking at "how can we do better?"

 

Being fair, I think the response to you may have been directed at "Fitz is a career backup". That's factually false at this point. He's now been an NFL starter for 2 years, going into his third.

He's had moderate success as an NFL starter - middle of the pack.

 

That's a better career as a starter than many a high-round draft choiceat this point, including (up until last year) the guy who went #1 overall in Fitz's draft class.

So while one might like to do better, really, it's time to put the "career backup" thing in a drawer. He may not be the starter you want, but he IS an NFL starting QB. I think that was the point.

[Bronc24]

I agree with you, Marauder, until we have pro-bowlers at every position we should be looking at "how can we do better?"

 

Being fair, I think the response to you may have been directed at "Fitz is a career backup". That's factually false at this point. He's now been an NFL starter for 2 years, going into his third.

He's had moderate success as an NFL starter - middle of the pack.

 

That's a better career as a starter than many a high-round draft choiceat this point, including (up until last year) the guy who went #1 overall in Fitz's draft class.

So while one might like to do better, really, it's time to put the "career backup" thing in a drawer. He may not be the starter you want, but he IS an NFL starting QB. I think that was the point.

 

Point taken. He SHOULD be a career back up.

[Bruce]

I would gladly trade Vanek/ Roy and a 1st Round pick for the LA Kings Dustin Brown...

[iinii]

Brady yes

Sanchez no

Tannehill yes

Weeden yes

Flacco yes

Big Ben yes

Dalton yes

Schaub yes

Luck yes

Hasselback no

Gabbert no

Manning yes

Palmer yes

Rivers yes

Cassell no

 

a little premature on Tannehill, Weeden, Flacco has fallen mightily from his freshman year, Dalton looked good last year, but body of work is limited, Schaub hasn't finished a year yet, Palmer is a choke artist, so IMHO Fitz a good quarterback, not elite, but few are. Brady, Manning, Rivers, and Ben are at the top, the others are who we thought they were.

[Fan in San Diego]

Brady yes

Sanchez no

Tannehill yes

Weeden yes

Flacco yes

Big Ben yes

Dalton yes

Schaub yes

Luck yes

Hasselback no

Gabbert no

Manning yes

Palmer yes

Rivers yes

Cassell no

 

I've got ....

11 yes

4 no

 

Brady yes

Sanchez no

Tannehill no - rookie, who knows

Weeden no - rookie

Flacco no - Not a fan

Big Ben yes

Dalton yes

Schaub no - not a fan

Luck no - rookie

Hasselback no

Gabbert no

Manning yes

Palmer no - too old

Rivers yes

Cassell no

 

I've got ....

5 yes

10 no

[Rockinon]

Brady no - This would be like taking a cop out. My #1 priority is to beat this C%#K sucker.

Sanchez no - Not in a million years.

Tannehill no - You have to be kidding me on this one.

Weeden no - Where do you get such stupid ideas.

Flacco no - He is not better than Fitz

Big Ben no - good QB... lacks more important qualities

Dalton no - No NFL experience

Schaub no - Not better than Fitz

Luck no - no NFL experience

Hasselback no - too old

Gabbert no - he has a long ways to go

Manning no - not sure he would be able come back from his neck problems

Palmer no - Good QB but old

Rivers no - Good QB but he isn't right for this team

Cassell no - no way

 

Fitz is a unifying force on this team. While there are better choices from a statistical point of view, there is no way I trade Fitz in favor of them. Now if you want to talk about trading Thigpen that's different. Fitz....that's just crazy talk.

 

BTW, all of you who would trade Fitz in favor of Brady FU.

[Fan in San Diego]

Brady no - This would be like taking a cop out. My #1 priority is to beat this C%#K sucker.

Sanchez no - Not in a million years.

Tannehill no - You have to be kidding me on this one.

Weeden no - Where do you get such stupid ideas.

Flacco no - He is not better than Fitz

Big Ben no - good QB... lacks more important qualities

Dalton no - No NFL experience

Schaub no - Not better than Fitz

Luck no - no NFL experience

Hasselback no - too old

Gabbert no - he has a long ways to go

Manning no - not sure he would be able come back from his neck problems

Palmer no - Good QB but old

Rivers no - Good QB but he isn't right for this team

Cassell no - no way

 

Fitz is a unifying force on this team. While there are better choices from a statistical point of view, there is no way I trade Fitz in favor of them. Now if you want to talk about trading Thigpen that's different. Fitz....that's just crazy talk.

 

BTW, all of you who would trade Fitz in favor of Brady FU.

 

Didn't Andy Dalton beat us last year?

[CosmicBills]

I agree with you, Marauder, until we have pro-bowlers at every position we should be looking at "how can we do better?"

 

Being fair, I think the response to you may have been directed at "Fitz is a career backup". That's factually false at this point. He's now been an NFL starter for 2 years, going into his third.

He's had moderate success as an NFL starter - middle of the pack.

 

That's a better career as a starter than many a high-round draft choiceat this point, including (up until last year) the guy who went #1 overall in Fitz's draft class.

So while one might like to do better, really, it's time to put the "career backup" thing in a drawer. He may not be the starter you want, but he IS an NFL starting QB. I think that was the point.

Your definition of "moderate success as an NFL starter" is a career record of 18 wins 32 loses and 1 tie in 51 games as a starting QB (that's 3.25 seasons)? That's a winning percentage of 35% with zero playoff births, a sub 60% completion percentage and a career TD to INT ratio of nearly 1:1.

 

That qualifies as moderate success?

 

God, you truly ARE a Bills fan.

 

I get it. Fitz is the starting QB for the Bills this season and he deserves to be. But let's call a turd a turd. So far, his career hasn't been in any way shape or form "successful". He hasn't shown he can win games consistently, complete passes consistently or avoid boneheaded mistakes consistently.

 

This doesn't mean he's incapable of performing at a successful level -- but it's folly to to argue he's proven he can be successful so far in his career.

 

This is the year for Fitz. It's playoffs or he's done in Buffalo. If he can't take this team to the playoffs then why should we be confident he can lead this team, or any team, to a Lombardi trophy?

Edited May 6, 2012 by tgreg99

[Direhard Fan]

Your right. Playoffs or bust. I beleive he will shine and all this chatter will be history. The "D" will give him a great opportunity to shine. Bar injury he will shine. Trust me "I'M the Doctor".

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Can't disagree with this. I would trade straight up for Luck, RGIII, and a number of other QB on that list. About half of them.

 

 

I believe Washington and green bay might be the only teams in the league that wouldn't trade thier starting qb for luck...

 

Edit... Forgot Carolina...

Edited May 6, 2012 by over 20 years of fanhood

[CosmicBills]

Your right. Playoffs or bust. I beleive he will shine and all this chatter will be history. The "D" will give him a great opportunity to shine. Bar injury he will shine. Trust me "I'M the Doctor".

From your lips to God's ears, right?

 

This team has taken a dramatic step in the right direction with this off season. The defensive line, on paper, is the best d-line this franchise has ever had and one of, if not THE, best d-line in the NFL today. That will make the entire defense better, the secondary better and should also cover up for any mistakes the offense makes -- unlike last year.

 

This team is playoff caliber. And Fitz is a huge part of that. I hope he steps up and shuts me up this year. He's a great leader, a nice guy, and plays with a ton of heart. The dude wants to win and the Bills need him to step up in a big way in 2012.

 

But if he doesn't ... well, there's no room for sentimentality in professional sports.

[Rocky Landing]

I'm pretty surprised that people on this thread are so easily willing to dismiss Fitz as an average (or worse) QB. Everyone on this forum should know his history and what makes him valuable. He is one of the smartest players in the league. (In fact, I read an article last year that cited him as one of the smartest professional athletes in all of sports.) His early success last season should be taken seriously, and the poor finish to last season should have been a surprise to no one (even without his busted up ribs). At the start of last season the number one criticism of the Bills was that they "lacked depth." We read this ad nausuem. Turns out that it was true. Fitz may not be the most athletic QB in the league. But, it takes a lot more than a good arm to be a great QB. Fitz has the intellect to be our franchise QB. I would take a smart QB with an average arm over a dumb QB with a great arm ANY DAY. I believe history would prove that wise. And, by any measure, Fitz is considered a genius.

[CosmicBills]

I'm pretty surprised that people on this thread are so easily willing to dismiss Fitz as an average (or worse) QB. Everyone on this forum should know his history and what makes him valuable. He is one of the smartest players in the league. (In fact, I read an article last year that cited him as one of the smartest professional athletes in all of sports.) His early success last season should be taken seriously, and the poor finish to last season should have been a surprise to no one (even without his busted up ribs). At the start of last season the number one criticism of the Bills was that they "lacked depth." We read this ad nausuem. Turns out that it was true. Fitz may not be the most athletic QB in the league. But, it takes a lot more than a good arm to be a great QB. Fitz has the intellect to be our franchise QB. I would take a smart QB with an average arm over a dumb QB with a great arm ANY DAY. I believe history would prove that wise. And, by any measure, Fitz is considered a genius.

That's why you see so many Rhode Scholars in the Hall of Fame, right? Dan Marino can barely read but if it they were the same age I'd take him over Fitz in a heartbeat.

 

Gimme a break. Look at the man's career numbers for what they show, not what you want to see. He hasn't had success yet. He hasn't reached the playoffs yet. He has only completed over 60% of his passes in one season out of 3 as a starting NFL QB.

Edited May 6, 2012 by tgreg99