Williams+Williams+Williams Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 As I was saying, ignorant fans... I have no sour grapes. At the time of the fiasco I was firmly on Peters side. However, after a few years, the Bills really did get a fair deal. Peters is playing a little above average in Philly and the Bills got a good center and didn't have to pay $60 million to a tackle that doesn't play as well as a $60 million tackle should. As far as a few people go, how many GM's have you worked with? How many years have you been a scout? Didn't think so. What's with the chip on your shoulder? You claim to have been a talent scout, but now you are posting like you are the ultimate authority on a fan board. Why? Either you weren't goo enough to move up into a front office position or you weren't good enough to keep your job. Or, you are just lying. Get off your high horse, and come back down to earth. You may disagree with people, and you probably are better at evaluating talent then 90% of the board. But you dont have to talk down to people In order to make a point. Relax bro.
Fan in San Diego Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Heh Dogma Don't get into pissing matches with people on this board. It's just not worth it. It's tiring and frustrating and just not worth it. I've been booted off this board a few times for getting into heated pooping matches. In the end, it doesn't matter and not worth it. Just make your points and don't worry about what people may take issue with.
Williams+Williams+Williams Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 I did receive a paycheck. I was paid as a Scout assistant, not a scout. You thought I spent 13 years of my life reviewing film for free? No, coaches are not good film evaluators. That's why there are seperate titles for scouts and coaches. That's why coaches aren't GM's. That's why owners are reluctant to give GM powers to even the best of coaches. I never said a scout is not a good evaluator. Ok, so if coaches aren't good at evaluating players, then why dont scouts put the starting line ups together and coaches just stick to calling plays? Ridiculous.
dogma+ Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Ok, so if coaches aren't good at evaluating players, then why dont scouts put the starting line ups together and coaches just stick to calling plays? Ridiculous. Evaluating talent on a football field is A LOT different than evaluating on tape. That is the reason the Scouting Combine was formed. Because coaches wanted a way to see the players in person and on the field. This isn't rocket science. Coaches COACH. Scouts SCOUT. I know everyone wants to ignore this, but there is a reason why owners are very hesitant to let even the best coaches have a GM role as well. What's with the chip on your shoulder? You claim to have been a talent scout, but now you are posting like you are the ultimate authority on a fan board. Why? Either you weren't goo enough to move up into a front office position or you weren't good enough to keep your job. Or, you are just lying. Get off your high horse, and come back down to earth. You may disagree with people, and you probably are better at evaluating talent then 90% of the board. But you dont have to talk down to people In order to make a point. Relax bro. I'm not a very arrogant person, so I am a bit surprised that people say that I am coming off that way. My only guess is that text is harder to convey emotion than speaking to someone in person. It's not a mistake to register here. And up until all of this, I thought you've made some good posts. However, it might have been a mistake if you are going to use this vague, ever-changing "I was a pro scout" argument to prove your point, without ever giving real clarification. The mistake is even mentioning it in the first place if you arent completely comfortable with losing your anonymity. If you re-read your posts, and can't see why some people might be suspicious and others might be laughing, then maybe it was a mistake. And just a heads up, there has been a lot of discussion on this board regarding the Pro Bowl and what exactly it means for a player to be defined as a "Pro Bowl-er". After much debating, it's basically understood that the title does not necessarily correspond to on-field performance. It can, and sometimes does... but sometimes doesnt. So mentioning the pro bowl does not prove a player to be good. Good Luck and Go Bills! Good post. Thank you for the information. Heh Dogma Don't get into pissing matches with people on this board. It's just not worth it. It's tiring and frustrating and just not worth it. I've been booted off this board a few times for getting into heated pooping matches. In the end, it doesn't matter and not worth it. Just make your points and don't worry about what people may take issue with. You're right. Flinging feces leaves crap stains on your hand even if you are the victor.
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) This whole thing reminds me of another situation on another board about cars. New poster comes in an starts giving very strong opinions on things. Gets in heated arguments. Says people don't know what they're talking about. Claims to have worked in high-end racing circles. Eventually things cool down, and the poster did have many years working for top teams in Indy Car and top crews in NHRA drag racing. However...don't ever expect things to go well when you walk up to a group of people you don't know, whether it's in person or on the Internet, and start telling them they're full of crap (whether it's true or not) And, while this is a fan board, I would say the fans on this particular board have a pretty good understanding of things as a whole. It's not perfect, but it's better than a lot of other places Edited May 5, 2012 by BEAST MODE BABY!
Astrobot Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 NFL quarterbacks had a 103.3 rating vs. Florence last year. And of course no NFL quarterback completed a pass vs. Gilmore last year!
Kelly the Dog Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Evaluating talent on a football field is A LOT different than evaluating on tape. That is the reason the Scouting Combine was formed. Because coaches wanted a way to see the players in person and on the field. This isn't rocket science. Coaches COACH. Scouts SCOUT. I know everyone wants to ignore this, but there is a reason why owners are very hesitant to let even the best coaches have a GM role as well. One of the most important elements of coaching is evaluating tape of your own players and especially your opponents, evaluating the opponents strengths and weaknesses on tape, and then formulating the gameplan to exploit your evaluation. Coaches also watch tape every single day of their own practices, particularly in training camp, to evaluate their players. And the reason that owners are hesitant to hire the best coaches as GMs is because they are both full time jobs, and if you are a coach and trying to do GM duties, it takes away too much time from your coaching duties. I am not at all saying that coaches are the best evaluators. GMs and scouts should be, because that is their job description. But to say that coaches are lousy evaluators is simply not true. Some are, like, say, Dick Jauron, but they are also lousy coaches, and that often has to do with evaluating their own players and the opposition's players..
Rubes Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 NFL quarterbacks had a 103.3 rating vs. Florence last year. And of course no NFL quarterback completed a pass vs. Gilmore last year! They also had a 120 rating vs. Williams. Just sayin'.
dogma+ Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 One of the most important elements of coaching is evaluating tape of your own players and especially your opponents, evaluating the opponents strengths and weaknesses on tape, and then formulating the gameplan to exploit your evaluation. Coaches also watch tape every single day of their own practices, particularly in training camp, to evaluate their players. That's just not true. Coaches do not do as much tape evaluation as you seem to think. The entire game tape is cut and graded by Monday afternoon at the latest. Any film review of the next opponent is done by Tuesday night. When Coaches grade the game film, they are looking for missed blocking assignments, QB reads and missed targets, zone discrepancies and the overall effectiveness of the play. They are not evaluating talent. Any game film of the opposing team is done to attack inconsistencies in the opposing team. Once again, not evaluating talent. For the most part, there is not as much film preparation on the Coaches part as fans of this forum seem to think. Most coaches will tell you that their game plan remains similar throughout the season will tweaks for each opponent. You don't change players. You have the same talent, the same plays and variations of plays. You line up, you run your plays, the team that most effectively accomplishes that task wins the game. And the reason that owners are hesitant to hire the best coaches as GMs is because they are both full time jobs, and if you are a coach and trying to do GM duties, it takes away too much time from your coaching duties. Wrong. They're hesitant to hire coaches and give them GM responsibilities is because it takes two distinct skill sets. Marv Levy was a good coach and a good motivator. He was a horrible GM. Mike Sherman was a good coach. Awful GM. Jeff Fisher was a good coach. Bad GM. It's that simple. Nearly every time a Coach was also a GM, they have failed miserably at the GM aspect. A reporter asked Chan Gailey how much impact he has on draft picks. Gailey responded that he only has input as far as telling Nix what the needs of the team are. Thats it. He's not a scout and he doesn't pretend to be. This whole thing reminds me of another situation on another board about cars. New poster comes in an starts giving very strong opinions on things. Gets in heated arguments. Says people don't know what they're talking about. Claims to have worked in high-end racing circles. Eventually things cool down, and the poster did have many years working for top teams in Indy Car and top crews in NHRA drag racing. However...don't ever expect things to go well when you walk up to a group of people you don't know, whether it's in person or on the Internet, and start telling them they're full of crap (whether it's true or not) And, while this is a fan board, I would say the fans on this particular board have a pretty good understanding of things as a whole. It's not perfect, but it's better than a lot of other places Interesting story. Thanks for sharing.
Chilly Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 I was at that game...that was the "Hurricane Katrina" game...the Saints played their home games at a tiny indoor stadium in San Antonio...we were litterally about 30 feet from where McGee got tackled...good times...we lost! I wouldn't call the Alamodome tiny, it holds 72,000 people. That's just not true. Coaches do not do as much tape evaluation as you seem to think. The entire game tape is cut and graded by Monday afternoon at the latest. Any film review of the next opponent is done by Tuesday night. When Coaches grade the game film, they are looking for missed blocking assignments, QB reads and missed targets, zone discrepancies and the overall effectiveness of the play. They are not evaluating talent. Any game film of the opposing team is done to attack inconsistencies in the opposing team. Once again, not evaluating talent. For the most part, there is not as much film preparation on the Coaches part as fans of this forum seem to think. Most coaches will tell you that their game plan remains similar throughout the season will tweaks for each opponent. You don't change players. You have the same talent, the same plays and variations of plays. You line up, you run your plays, the team that most effectively accomplishes that task wins the game. I think they're talking about the offseason player evaluations, which from listening to Pat Kirwan, the coaches are usually involved in watching film and discussing strengths and weaknesses with their own group.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) That's just not true. Coaches do not do as much tape evaluation as you seem to think. The entire game tape is cut and graded by Monday afternoon at the latest. Any film review of the next opponent is done by Tuesday night. When Coaches grade the game film, they are looking for missed blocking assignments, QB reads and missed targets, zone discrepancies and the overall effectiveness of the play. They are not evaluating talent. Any game film of the opposing team is done to attack inconsistencies in the opposing team. Once again, not evaluating talent. For the most part, there is not as much film preparation on the Coaches part as fans of this forum seem to think. Most coaches will tell you that their game plan remains similar throughout the season will tweaks for each opponent. You don't change players. You have the same talent, the same plays and variations of plays. You line up, you run your plays, the team that most effectively accomplishes that task wins the game. Youre living in the 70s. LOL. Gailey talks about watching tapes of the practices. They have a full time guy who does it and he watches it the same night. Here is just a simple example. Bills cornerback Reggie Corner was the one bit of good news on the injury front as he was on the practice field for the first time after beginning training camp on the active PUP list. After passing a physical he was able to participate Monday. "I just had a little ankle tweak, but it's feeling a lot better now," he said. "I'll continue to rehab it to get it better and so I can put more pressure on it. I'll do whatever I have to do." "It was good to get him back on the field," said Gailey. "It was good to see him. We'll work him in slowly to make sure we're smart with him, but it looked like he did a pretty good job. I'll have to go watch the tape." and... Head Coach Chan Gailey PM Practice – July 30, 2011 On how the first practice went: On his first impression of second-round pick DB Aaron Williams: I don’t have an impression because I didn’t get to watch him very much. I’ll have to go watch the tape to get a full impression of Aaron. We know he’s a big, strong, physical corner and that’s why we drafted him. I expect him to be a very good player, but I have a hard time saying of what he did on the field today. I really didn’t watch him. Edited May 5, 2012 by Kelly the Dog
dogma+ Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Youre living in the 70s. LOL. Gailey talks about watching tapes of the practices. They have a full time guy who does it and he watches it the same night. Here is just a simple example. and... I didn't mention TC practices because I don't have much knowledge of them.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 I didn't mention TC practices because I don't have much knowledge of them. They tape every practice and watch it. Both OT Chris Hairston and OLB Chris Kelsay are listed as questionable for Sunday’s game following Friday’s practice. Head coach Chan Gailey had an update on both players. “Kelsay was limited again (Friday) and he’s probably going to be a game time decision,” said Gailey. Gailey also said in watching the practice tape from Thursday that Hairston’s play and movement wasn’t as good as he initially thought. “I think there’s a chance he’ll make it,” said Gailey. “I’m going to go watch today’s practice on film. The plan is still to possibly have him play some.” Out for Sunday’s game for the Bills are Demetrius Bell, Aaron Williams and Kyle Williams.
dogma+ Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 They tape every practice and watch it. In what way is that evaluating talent?
Kelly the Dog Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) In what way is that evaluating talent? The quote you responded to said it flat out. The reporter asked what Gailey thought of Aaron Williams. Gailey said I don't know. I have to watch the tape to get a full impression of him. That is evaluating talent. You're digging yourself a bigger hole. First you say they don't tape practice or watch it. Then you infer it is only TC. Then you say okay, but how is it evaluating talent when that's exactly what Gailey said he was doing. Watching how he reacts, moves, covers, gets in position, etc. This is actually pretty interesting showing how teams are using video and game film now, and not just coaches. http://www.popularme...olution-6651161 Edited May 5, 2012 by Kelly the Dog
Johnny Hammersticks Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) Heard rumors (sorry no link) that there are at least two teams (Saints & Bucs) who have interest in D-Flo. Makes a lot of sense for the Bucs with Talib's legal troubles and Barber potentially moving to safety. EDIT: 1,000th post!! Edited May 5, 2012 by Johnny Hammersticks
vincec Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 Heard rumors (sorry no link) that there are at least two teams (Saints & Bucs) who have interest in D-Flo. Makes a lot of sense for the Bucs with Talib's legal troubles and Barber potentially moving to safety. EDIT: 1,000th post!! Congrats!
3rdand12 Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) Heard rumors (sorry no link) that there are at least two teams (Saints & Bucs) who have interest in D-Flo. Makes a lot of sense for the Bucs with Talib's legal troubles and Barber potentially moving to safety. EDIT: 1,000th post!! Nice! you survived, Johnny I hope Drayton is able get his game back on and gets picked up soon. Edited May 6, 2012 by 3rdand12
ganesh Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 Can't say I'm shocked. Thanks for the interception and return against the Patriots, buddy! I could see a team giving him a one- or two-year deal at this stage of his career, but it's a real possibility that this could mark the end of the line for Florence. That play got himself on the cover of Sports Illustrated. Probably his career highlight!
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 I liked D. Flo and thought he was a great leadership guy. But while I was on the fence about his release, here was a great stat from Peter King: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/05/06/mmqb/3.html 6. I think if you want to know why the Bills whacked credible veteran cornerback Drayton Florence, look no further than the 103.3 passer rating he allowed foes last year in coverage (per ProFootballFocus.com). GM Buddy Nix is too smart to give away cornerbacks who can still cover, and with 2011 second-round pick Aaron Williams and this year's first-rounder, Stephon Gilmore, in house, Nix can afford to jettison an aging, slumping player. It's time for the young guys to play and MCGee to be Yoda. Either way, Drayton was a class act and I wish him the best.
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