Kelly the Dog Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Do you know who decides the All-Pro team? I'll give you a hint. They type for a living. Not evaluate talent. It's the highest individual honor a player can get. Here is the All Pro team. Yeah, this doesn't indicate the best players in the league at their positions. Sure, you or someone else could argue a player here and there on the second team was better than the first team, but it's a damn good list. OFFENSE Quarterback — Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay. Running Backs — Maurice Jones-Drew, Jacksonville; LeSean McCoy, Philadelphia. Fullback — Vonta Leach, Baltimore. Tight End — Rob Gronkowski, New England. Wide Receivers — Calvin Johnson, Detroit; Wes Welker, New England. Tackles — Jason Peters, Philadelphia; Joe Thomas, Cleveland. Guards — Carl Nicks, New Orleans; Jahri Evans, New Orleans. Center — Maurkice Pouncey, Pittsburgh. Placekicker — David Akers, San Francisco. Kick Returner — Patrick Peterson, Arizona. DEFENSE Ends — Jared Allen, Minnesota; Jason Pierre-Paul, New York Giants. Tackles — Haloti Ngata, Baltimore; Justin Smith, San Francisco. Outside Linebackers — Terrell Suggs, Baltimore; DeMarcus Ware, Dallas. Inside Linebacker — Patrick Willis, San Francisco; NaVorro Bowman, San Francisco, and Derrick Johnson, Kansas City. Cornerbacks — Charles Woodson, Green Bay; Darrelle Revis, New York Jets. Safeties — Troy Polamalu, Pittsburgh; Eric Weddle, San Diego. Punter — Andy Lee, San Francisco. SECOND TEAM OFFENSE Quarterback — Drew Brees, New Orleans. Running Backs — Ray Rice, Baltimore; Arian Foster, Houston. Fullback — John Kuhn, Green Bay. Tight End — Jimmy Graham, New Orleans. Wide Receivers — Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona; Victor Cruz, New York Giants. Tackles — Duane Brown, Houston; Joe Staley, San Francisco. Guards — Marshal Yanda, Baltimore; Logan Mankins, New England. Center — Ryan Kalil, Carolina, and Nick Mangold, New York Jets. Placekicker — Sebastian Janikowski, Oakland. Kick Returner — Devin Hester, Chicago. SECOND TEAM DEFENSE Ends — Justin Smith, San Francisco; Jason Babin, Philadelphia. Tackles — Geno Atkins, Cincinnatil Vince Wilfork, New England, and Richard Seymour, Oakland. Outside Linebackers — Tamba Hali, Kansas City; Von Miller, Denver. Inside Linebackers — Brian Cushing, Houston; London Fletcher, Washington. Cornerbacks — Johnathan Joseph, Houston; Carlos Rogers, San Francisco. Safeties — Ed Reed, Baltimore; Earl Thomas, Seattle. Punter — Shane Lechler, Oakland. http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2012/01/the-ap-all-pro-team-roster/1#.T6VEVcVGZfw
dogma+ Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) It's the highest individual honor a player can get. Here is the All Pro team. Yeah, this doesn't indicate the best players in the league at their positions. Sure, you or someone else could argue a player here and there on the second team was better than the first team, but it's a damn good list. According to who? A fan? I'm sorry, but i'm just being honest. The majority of fans are ignorant when it comes to how Pro Football Personnel view and evaluate players. That's why Marv Levy said ""If you listen to the fans, eventually you wind up sitting next to them." And writers are just that. Fans. I assure you, from the bottom of my heart, that they don't take a 2nd look at this after placing the paper behind the toilet after their morning crap. The list is created by writers. Not talent evaluators. If they were truly excellent talent evaluators, they would be working in the NFL not for the Chicago Tribune. Jason Peters had a sub par season last year by far and Demetrius Bell, believe it or not, outplayed him. In holding penalties. In false starts. In QB pressures. And In sacks. In nearly every aspect an offensive tackle could outplay another tackle. If want to pretend that's not the case, then so be it. Just don't expect me not to call you out on it. Sorry. Edited May 5, 2012 by dogma+
vincec Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 According to who? A fan? I'm sorry, but i'm just being honest. The majority of fans are ignorant when it comes to how Pro Football Personnel view and evaluate players. That's why Marv Levy said ""If you listen to the fans, eventually you wind up sitting next to them." And writers are just that. Fans. I assure you, from the bottom of my heart, that they don't take a 2nd look at this after placing the paper behind the toilet after their morning crap. The list is created by writers. Not talent evaluators. If they were truly excellent talent evaluators, they would be working in the NFL not for the Chicago Tribune. Jason Peters had a sub par season last year by far and Demetrius Bell, believe it or not, outplayed him. In holding penalties. In false starts. In QB pressures. And In sacks. In nearly every aspect an offensive tackle could outplay another tackle. If want to pretend that's not the case, then so be it. Just don't expect me not to call you out on it. Sorry. Please. When is this sour grapes non-sense about Peters going to end? He made a crazy salary demand. The Bills didn't yield to his wishes. Now he plays for Philadelphia. He is very good. The Bills don't have an incumbent LT. It is what it is. Let's not pretend that a few people on this website know the real story and the rest of the world is crazy.
dogma+ Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Please. When is this sour grapes non-sense about Peters going to end? He made a crazy salary demand. The Bills didn't yield to his wishes. Now he plays for Philadelphia. He is very good. The Bills don't have an incumbent LT. It is what it is. Let's not pretend that a few people on this website know the real story and the rest of the world is crazy. As I was saying, ignorant fans... I have no sour grapes. At the time of the fiasco I was firmly on Peters side. However, after a few years, the Bills really did get a fair deal. Peters is playing a little above average in Philly and the Bills got a good center and didn't have to pay $60 million to a tackle that doesn't play as well as a $60 million tackle should. As far as a few people go, how many GM's have you worked with? How many years have you been a scout? Didn't think so.
vincec Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 As I was saying, ignorant fans... I have no sour grapes. At the time of the fiasco I was firmly on Peters side. However, after a few years, the Bills really did get a fair deal. Peters is playing a little above average in Philly and the Bills got a good center and didn't have to pay $60 million to a tackle that doesn't play as well as a $60 million tackle should. As far as a few people go, how many GM's have you worked with? How many years have you been a scout? Didn't think so. I have as many qualifications to post my opinion on this board as trolls and ignoramuses like you. I think that Andy Reid and the Eagles staff forgot more about football than you will ever know and the 50 sports writers who vote for the All Pro team have watched more football that you will in your entire life time. So pardon me if I don't believe my own eyes, professional coaches and sports writers over an "expert" like you.
DefenseWinzChampionshipz Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 If so, it would be small. His signing bonus (which probably wasn't huge) would accelerate and count towards the cap, but his salary does not, so they probably do get some cap relief. Oh ok thanks...
Matt in KC Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 According to who? A fan? I'm sorry, but i'm just being honest. The majority of fans are ignorant when it comes to how Pro Football Personnel view and evaluate players. That's why Marv Levy said ""If you listen to the fans, eventually you wind up sitting next to them." And writers are just that. Fans. I assure you, from the bottom of my heart, that they don't take a 2nd look at this after placing the paper behind the toilet after their morning crap. The list is created by writers. Not talent evaluators. If they were truly excellent talent evaluators, they would be working in the NFL not for the Chicago Tribune. Jason Peters had a sub par season last year by far and Demetrius Bell, believe it or not, outplayed him. In holding penalties. In false starts. In QB pressures. And In sacks. In nearly every aspect an offensive tackle could outplay another tackle. If want to pretend that's not the case, then so be it. Just don't expect me not to call you out on it. Sorry. Until this post I thought you were just young and ignorant. So all pro honors don't mean anything now, huh? Right. (...and you started in post 171 using this to argue why it was better we had Wood than Peters!) Enjoy being alone thinking that. Look at those lists! It's quite an honor to be included. Troll
dogma+ Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 I have as many qualifications to post my opinion on this board as trolls and ignoramuses like you. I think that Andy Reid and the Eagles staff forgot more about football than you will ever know and the 50 sports writers who vote for the All Pro team have watched more football that you will in your entire life time. So pardon me if I don't believe my own eyes, professional coaches and sports writers over an "expert" like you. Yeah you're right, I was only a professional scout for the majority of my life. Those sports writers sure have watched more football than the hundreds of thousands of hours that I did for a living. Good one! PS, coaches are generally not good film evaluators. There's a reason why Coaches aren't also the scout and the GM for a team and why many owners are reluctant to give GM powers to even the best coaches. Until this post I thought you were just young and ignorant. So all pro honors don't mean anything now, huh? Right. (...and you started in post 171 using this to argue why it was better we had Wood than Peters!) Enjoy being alone thinking that. Look at those lists! It's quite an honor to be included. Troll Until this post you thought that someone who worked in the NFL for 13 years was young and ignorant... Ok. In the NFL, among GM's and coaches, the All-Pro "honor" means jack squat. Find me a coach or GM who gives one toot about what a bunch of sports writers think and I'll write you a check for $100. Being a troll is having a different opinion than someone else? Interesting. Troll meant something much different in my day.
Matt in KC Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Yeah you're right, I was only a professional scout for the majority of my life. Those sports writers sure have watched more football than the hundreds of thousands of hours that I did for a living. Good one! PS, coaches are generally not good film evaluators. There's a reason why Coaches aren't also the scout and the GM for a team and why many owners are reluctant to give GM powers to even the best coaches. Which team were you the scout for? I not sure you were really the scout. What kind of car do you drive?
Kelly the Dog Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 According to who? A fan? I'm sorry, but i'm just being honest. The majority of fans are ignorant when it comes to how Pro Football Personnel view and evaluate players. That's why Marv Levy said ""If you listen to the fans, eventually you wind up sitting next to them." And writers are just that. Fans. I assure you, from the bottom of my heart, that they don't take a 2nd look at this after placing the paper behind the toilet after their morning crap. The list is created by writers. Not talent evaluators. If they were truly excellent talent evaluators, they would be working in the NFL not for the Chicago Tribune. Jason Peters had a sub par season last year by far and Demetrius Bell, believe it or not, outplayed him. In holding penalties. In false starts. In QB pressures. And In sacks. In nearly every aspect an offensive tackle could outplay another tackle. If want to pretend that's not the case, then so be it. Just don't expect me not to call you out on it. Sorry. Peters allowed 3 sacks, 1 QB hit the whole season and 17 QB pressures the whole season, which is one per game. Yeah you're right, I was only a professional scout for the majority of my life. Those sports writers sure have watched more football than the hundreds of thousands of hours that I did for a living. Good one! PS, coaches are generally not good film evaluators. There's a reason why Coaches aren't also the scout and the GM for a team and why many owners are reluctant to give GM powers to even the best coaches. Until this post you thought that someone who worked in the NFL for 13 years was young and ignorant... Ok. In the NFL, among GM's and coaches, the All-Pro "honor" means jack squat. Find me a coach or GM who gives one toot about what a bunch of sports writers think and I'll write you a check for $100. Being a troll is having a different opinion than someone else? Interesting. Troll meant something much different in my day. You obviously know some football. But this scout thing is really getting out of hand. The first time you mentioned it you only said your father was a BLESTO scout. Then you said you were "his assistant". Now you say you're a professional scout for the majority of your life.
QCity Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Yeah you're right, I was only a professional scout for the majority of my life. Sweet. I was a NFL GM for most of my professional life. I think that brings this board's count up to 18 GMs, 47 head coaches, 198 scouts and 312 team office personnel. Feel the knowledge!
DanInUticaTampa Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 You obviously know some football. But this scout thing is really getting out of hand. The first time you mentioned it you only said your father was a BLESTO scout. Then you said you were "his assistant". Now you say you're a professional scout for the majority of your life. That first one was another typo
dogma+ Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) Peters allowed 3 sacks, 1 QB hit the whole season and 17 QB pressures the whole season, which is one per game. Now how about Bell? You obviously know some football. But this scout thing is really getting out of hand. The first time you mentioned it you only said your father was a BLESTO scout. Then you said you were "his assistant". Now you say you're a professional scout for the majority of your life. He was the technically the scout. But we argue about who did the majority of the work Sweet. I was a NFL GM for most of my professional life. I think that brings this board's count up to 18 GMs, 47 head coaches, 198 scouts and 312 team office personnel. Feel the knowledge! :eyeroll: I have pictures of me, my dad, and jack butler at combines since the late 70's. Do the others? Edited May 5, 2012 by dogma+
Kelly the Dog Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 He was the technically the scout. But we argue about who did the majority of the work So in other words you were never a professional scout. Got it.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) Yeah you're right, I was only a professional scout for the majority of my life. Those sports writers sure have watched more football than the hundreds of thousands of hours that I did for a living. Good one! PS, coaches are generally not good film evaluators. There's a reason why Coaches aren't also the scout and the GM for a team and why many owners are reluctant to give GM powers to even the best coaches. 1) You've gone back and forth on this several times so which one is it? Were you the scout or was your Dad?. I don't care how many hours you claim to have watched by his side… if you didn't get a paycheck for doing it, you're not an NFL scout… And now coaches are not good film evaluators? According to you maybe but you seem to have an inflated value of your own abilities while looking down on the evaluation abilities of virtually everyone else. It's a strange world where a fan can make the claim that an NFL scout is not a good "film evaluator." However for the record to date, Peters has played in 42 of 48 games for Philly. Wood has played in 33 of 48 games for Buffalo over that same period. Neither player is guaranteed to play another game in the NFL although it looks more likely that Wood will play sooner than Peters. But when you write: "Now that he ruptured his Achilles, he will have missed 22 games since he joined the Eagles only 4 years ago" that's putting a bit of spin on things. That's simply fact. It's also a fact that Peters has played 42 of 48 games for Philly during which time Wood has played 33 of 48 games for Buffalo. Edited May 5, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan
Best Player Available Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Sweet. I was a NFL GM for most of my professional life. I think that brings this board's count up to 18 GMs, 47 head coaches, 198 scouts and 312 team office personnel. Feel the knowledge! As a former first round top 10 draft pick, I somehow feel left out?
Kelly the Dog Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 As a former first round top 10 draft pick, I somehow feel left out? I won the Heisman three years in a row, and then entered the draft as a junior. But one of those three wins wasn't a landslide, which kinda humbled me.
QCity Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 So in other words you were never a professional scout. Got it. Well, he might have been nominated to be a professional scout - and in my eyes that's the same thing. As a former first round top 10 draft pick, I somehow feel left out? The spreadsheet I'm using to track this stuff simply doesn't have the room. I hope this doesn't cause problems for all the former 1st rounders.
dogma+ Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 So in other words you were never a professional scout. Got it. You're right; I didn't have the title. I just did all the work. I knew it was a mistake to register here. I tried to get my father to join as well but he said this exact thing would happen. To quote his favorite line, "Im only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand." Next time an NFL team makes a decision that you don't understand, remember that there is a difference between what fans think and what is actually true. As Marv Levy said, "You start listening to the fans, and you'll eventually end up sitting with them." Goodbye.
Bronc24 Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Well, he might have been nominated to be a professional scout - and in my eyes that's the same thing. The spreadsheet I'm using to track this stuff simply doesn't have the room. I hope this doesn't cause problems for all the former 1st rounders. That's ok....you already have my scouting, coaching and GM experience noted. My first overall status is not relevant to personnel decisions.
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