Jags release Drew Colemen - would be a good pickup for the Bills

[NewEra]

1336067616[/url]' post='2457359']

The Jags just released Drew Colemen and his $7 million contract. If willing to sign for a reasonable amount, Coleman would be a very good pick up. He is serviceable in pass coverage, but his true skill is in what he brings to the run defense and pass rush. He is a fast player, and a sure tackler. He has a good punch on the ball carrier, and has accumulated 8 forced fumbles in the last two seasons. Approximately a quarter of his blitzes result in sacks.

 

Coleman was top 10 in the NFL in "stops" in 2010 according to Football Outsiders. "Stops" are defined as "The total number of plays by a defensive player that prevent a successful play by the offense, defined as 45% of needed yards on first down, 60% of needed yards on second down, and 100% of needed yards on third or fourth down. In general, "plays" refers to tackles, passes defensed, fumbles forced, or interceptions. The exception is when discussing pass defense data from the FO game charting project, in which case "plays" refers to all charted passes with the given player as the listed defender."

 

In pass coverage, think of McKelvin. In run defense, think of Antoine Winfield. In pass rush, think a slightly softer Adrian Wilson.

 

For the right price, the Bills could bring him in to play obvious rushing downs and pass rush situations. But I'm afraid that there will be plenty of teams interested in his services and his price is going to be a little too much for us and what we would use him for.

 

We might be looking at cutting McGee, Florence or mckelvin due to our depth. I'd rather sign a Wr, lb, TE or qb

[Grondre Reed]

:worthy: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

YES YES YES YES ... let's sign every player who gets cut because of their large contract especially if they had a good season a year or two ago. This is like a dream come true ... winning the lottery ... a chance to not play our guys but to play players other teams felt were not worth the money.

 

At this time of the year ... before these silly draft picks get into camp it will do a lot for their morale and the team's future to bring in CB's who get cut, defensive ends who get cut, offensive linemen who get cut ... wow ... the pickings are all ours to be had.

 

I so want to continue the dysfunctional experience of the buffalo bills. What a great post ... what a fantastic idea ... BUDDY GET IT DONE!!!

 

man that was a well fashioned

[Canks]

I agree with Shoretalk.

 

I used to work at a major bank. Thus I know all there is to know about money and value.

[FreakPop]

Haha ... I just get tired of those who post on the board that we should pick up every team's cut. Players who are cut at this time of year by losing teams usually have baggage.

 

Thanks for your concern for my well being, I have recovered and am not going near the emoticon button anymore tonight.

 

 

gotta agree 100% with ya shoretalk. The "let's sign every single castoff from other teams" gets exponentially old. OMG!

[Canks]

I disagree with FreakPop.

 

I used to work at a museum, I know old and the talks about signing free agents is not old.

[Kelly the Dog]

The problem I see is that even with the plethora of 1st and 2nd rounders we have no true blitzing threat from the CB position.

 

You're right though, another team would most likely out bid us anyway.

Gilmore and Brooks were both excellent blitzers in college. They havent done it in the pros obviously but it is a strength of both. I just don't see a place for Colemen to be worth the money he would demand (which wouldn't be a ton but probably decent).

[apuszczalowski]

We might be looking at cutting McGee, Florence or mckelvin due to our depth. I'd rather sign a Wr, lb, TE or qb

And DONE

[dogma+]

gotta agree 100% with ya shoretalk. The "let's sign every single castoff from other teams" gets exponentially old. OMG!

 

Agreed. But that's not what I did and I'm not that person. Shore Talk assumed I was based off of one thread and decides to put his foot firmly in his mouth.

 

I agree with Shoretalk.

 

I used to work at a major bank. Thus I know all there is to know about money and value.

 

You're right. Because working as a professional scout and watching thousands of hours of film is equivalent to "How much would you like to deposit? Thanks, come again."

 

Too many fans make the mistake of thinking we already have X amount of Y position and therefore we shouldn'tnt sign another Y. Proffesional teams do not think that way. They look at any player that holds the ability to improve their team. There are starters, depth, and situational players. All are needed on some capacity to be a successful team. For what it's worth, I don't see Brooks transitioning to be a quality blitzer in the NFL.

 

ShoreTalk made an assumption and I hate assumptions. They're a fallacy in their very nature and more often than not they're wrong.

[boyst]

Don't we have Scott for this position?

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Too many fans make the mistake of thinking we already have X amount of Y position and therefore we shouldn'tnt sign another Y. Proffesional teams do not think that way. They look at any player that holds the ability to improve their team. There are starters, depth, and situational players. All are needed on some capacity to be a successful team. For what it's worth, I don't see Brooks transitioning to be a quality blitzer in the NFL.

 

While I wholeheartedly agree on the first part, I just didn't see Florence making it on the field much, or surely not enough to warrant his salary. Williams and Gilmore is ahead of him. McGee is ahead of him and isnt automatic to be hurt. Leodis is maybe not ahead of him but on a par with him and Nix said a couple weeks ago he expects Leodis to play well in his contract year. They expect Brooks to play the slot.

 

And what makes you think Brooks cannot be a good blitzer in the NFL? He has tremendous speed and burst, very good timing, a knack for the big play,doesnt seem to give any tells to his blitzes from what I have seen, hits and tackles very hard, was a great gunner on ST, and was a great blitzer in college. I don't see anything there that would say he couldnt do it in the pros unless you just don't think he is a good player, and I would be curious as to why.

[dogma+]

While I wholeheartedly agree on the first part, I just didn't see Florence making it on the field much, or surely not enough to warrant his salary. Williams and Gilmore is ahead of him. McGee is ahead of him and isnt automatic to be hurt. Leodis is maybe not ahead of him but on a par with him and Nix said a couple weeks ago he expects Leodis to play well in his contract year. They expect Brooks to play the slot.

 

And what makes you think Brooks cannot be a good blitzer in the NFL? He has tremendous speed and burst, very good timing, a knack for the big play,doesnt seem to give any tells to his blitzes from what I have seen, hits and tackles very hard, was a great gunner on ST, and was a great blitzer in college. I don't see anything there that would say he couldnt do it in the pros unless you just don't think he is a good player, and I would be curious as to why.

 

You're most likely correct on salary. If his new contract in any way resembled what Jacksonville gave him, it wouldn't be worth it. That's why in my original post I said only if the money is right.

 

I'm not saying that Brooks CAN'T be a good blitzer in the NFL, but I am saying that I certainly would not expect him to be. If you watch Brooks tape, you will see why people have categorized him as a soft player. The reason is that whenever he is going up against adequately larger than him, he doesn't bring the same tenacity as he does against the smaller guys. YouTube highlight reels show just that - highlights. And even in those you can see that the majority of his big hits were against receivers and RB's of his size. In the NFL, the average QB is around 6 foot 4 and over 210 pounds. That's why in college you see a lot more thundering QB sacks than you do in the pro's.

 

Secondly, in the pro's you're most often not going to show that your blitzing your DB in a man-man formation as you do in college. You're going to be pulling DB's back, zoning the QB, and blitzing hard off the end. This creates a problem for many college blitzers who try to transition their game to the pro's. In college, pure speed would get you there. In the pro's, this technique not only gives the blitzing CB 5 more yards to cover but he also has to beat a much faster and more agile tackle or blocking RB.

 

Last but not least, if you look at the best blitzing cornerbacks in the NFL, you see a pattern. They're mostly bigger guys. Adrian Wilson, probably the best pure blitzing DB of the mid 2000's is 6 foot 3, 230 pounds. Charles Woodson 6 foot 1, 205 pounds. Eric Berry 6 foot 212 pounds. There are the rare player like Coleman who are smaller and turn out to be good blitzers, but they're the exception - not the norm. In case you're wondering, Brooks is 5'10, 190 pounds.

 

PS) Hard hits on special teams have little or no effect on blitzing. On Special Teams you have 30+ yards of ramp up time, and many times there is no one in your way to block you to the returner.

Edited May 4, 2012 by dogma+

[Wagon Circler]

I agree with Dogma. Shoretalk is an idiot.

Every time a player from another team gets cut,and someone says we should sign him, someone writes this exact post, probably shoretalk. I actually like reading about other players out there. If you don't, than don't.

[Kelly the Dog]

You're most likely correct on salary. If his new contract in any way resembled what Jacksonville gave him, it wouldn't be worth it. That's why in my original post I said only if the money is right.

 

I'm not saying that Brooks CAN'T be a good blitzer in the NFL, but I am saying that I certainly would not expect him to be. If you watch Brooks tape, you will see why people have categorized him as a soft player. The reason is that whenever he is going up against adequately larger than him, he doesn't bring the same tenacity as he does against the smaller guys. YouTube highlight reels show just that - highlights. And even in those you can see that the majority of his big hits were against receivers and RB's of his size. In the NFL, the average QB is around 6 foot 4 and over 210 pounds. That's why in college you see a lot more thundering QB sacks than you do in the pro's.

 

Secondly, in the pro's you're most often not going to show that your blitzing your DB in a man-man formation as you do in college. You're going to be pulling DB's back, zoning the QB, and blitzing hard off the end. This creates a problem for many college blitzers who try to transition their game to the pro's. In college, pure speed would get you there. In the pro's, this technique not only gives the blitzing CB 5 more yards to cover but he also has to beat a much faster and more agile tackle or blocking RB.

 

Last but not least, if you look at the best blitzing cornerbacks in the NFL, you see a pattern. They're mostly bigger guys. Adrian Wilson, probably the best pure blitzing DB of the mid 2000's is 6 foot 3, 230 pounds. Charles Woodson 6 foot 1, 205 pounds. Eric Berry 6 foot 212 pounds. There are the rare player like Coleman who are smaller and turn out to be good blitzers, but they're the exception - not the norm. In case you're wondering, Brooks is 5'10, 190 pounds.

 

PS) Hard hits on special teams have little or no effect on blitzing. On Special Teams you have 30+ yards of ramp up time, and many times there is no one in your way to block you to the returner.

Fair enough. I don't mean to say he will be a great blitzer. He may not be a good player at all, we have to wait and see.

 

As to the specifics of what you say, I wasnt talking about just highlight reels. He just seems to be making play after play in the games. As far as the speed thing you said, he's faster than pretty much anyone at 4.3 and has great burst it seems too. The big hits thing is unimportant to me, I want the guy down or hit just as he throws, I don't need it to be a highlight play. If the QB just bounces off of him it's a problem, but with our rush there should be another guy close. And as a gunner on ST I was talking about an ability to hit a moving target in the open field, which is a talent needed for blitzing. The QB is not always stationary obviously.

[dogma+]

Fair enough. I don't mean to say he will be a great blitzer. He may not be a good player at all, we have to wait and see.

 

As to the specifics of what you say, I wasnt talking about just highlight reels. He just seems to be making play after play in the games. As far as the speed thing you said, he's faster than pretty much anyone at 4.3 and has great burst it seems too. The big hits thing is unimportant to me, I want the guy down or hit just as he throws, I don't need it to be a highlight play. If the QB just bounces off of him it's a problem, but with our rush there should be another guy close. And as a gunner on ST I was talking about an ability to hit a moving target in the open field, which is a talent needed for blitzing. The QB is not always stationary obviously.

 

I think Brooks has tremendous potential to be a very good CB. And I think he will manifest his tenacity over the middle with smaller receivers like Welker. I like the pick a lot. I just dont see him being a blitzing threat.

[Canks]

I don't buy Dogma being a scout of any noteworthiness. I googled dogma football scout 20 different ways without any hits. Thus Shoretalk wins!!!

 

P.S. We should pick up Florence

[Alphadawg7]

The Jags just released Drew Colemen and his $7 million contract. If willing to sign for a reasonable amount, Coleman would be a very good pick up. He is serviceable in pass coverage, but his true skill is in what he brings to the run defense and pass rush. He is a fast player, and a sure tackler. He has a good punch on the ball carrier, and has accumulated 8 forced fumbles in the last two seasons. Approximately a quarter of his blitzes result in sacks.

 

Coleman was top 10 in the NFL in "stops" in 2010 according to Football Outsiders. "Stops" are defined as "The total number of plays by a defensive player that prevent a successful play by the offense, defined as 45% of needed yards on first down, 60% of needed yards on second down, and 100% of needed yards on third or fourth down. In general, "plays" refers to tackles, passes defensed, fumbles forced, or interceptions. The exception is when discussing pass defense data from the FO game charting project, in which case "plays" refers to all charted passes with the given player as the listed defender."

 

In pass coverage, think of McKelvin. In run defense, think of Antoine Winfield. In pass rush, think a slightly softer Adrian Wilson.

 

For the right price, the Bills could bring him in to play obvious rushing downs and pass rush situations. But I'm afraid that there will be plenty of teams interested in his services and his price is going to be a little too much for us and what we would use him for.

 

If a team devoid of talent like the Jags can't use him then why would he fit in here when we are suddenly very deep at DB?

 

Who do you cut? We already got rid of Florence.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Alphadawg7

[Deep2Moulds46]

I used to work as at Dairy Queen, so I can confirm this is a sweet idea!

 

I honestly have no idea who Drew Coleman is, but does anyone remember Clarence Coleman? Man he had a good preseason in 2003.

[Tommy]

I used to work as at Dairy Queen, so I can confirm this is a sweet idea!

 

 

I think the real question here is what kind of car do you drive?

Edited May 4, 2012 by Tommy

[bowery4]

Lol So I am not the only buying the I used to be a scout line. Oh well, seems like a decent poster except for that (time will tell).

[DefenseWinzChampionshipz]

After this comment <====== I'm staying away from this thread...