Kelly the Dog Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Chris Brown piece on TJ/family Except that piece was written by some Kracker named Jared and not Chris Brown. The Bills apparently heard from agents that other teams were very interested in drafting Graham in the third round, which is why they moved up. Perhaps Graham's agent himself, who wanted him on the Bills a pick higher and in a better situation for his client (although I would imagine teams are quite wary of listening to agents say their clients are about to be picked by other teams).
Fan in Chicago Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Chris Brown piece on TJ/family Let us hope he produces because we really badly need production from our WR corps. Easley and TJ are two big question marks around which the success of the O hinges. “I could run, jump, throw, catch, I could throw the ball like 70 yards when I was 13 years old." Flea flicker - here we come. One way to avoid Fitz attempting deep throws I suppose. Only problem is that TJ is also the most likely target of said deep throw.
section122 Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 I can't find the link but Buddy made a comment about being completely unprepared for your guy coming off the board. Mentioned how it had happened to him in the past. I think this is what happened here. Jags got caught unprepared and scrambled.
eball Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Thanks for posting! Keep in mind that the Bills once traded up (from the top of the 3rd to the bottom of the 2nd) to get Ryan Denney. They only traded up a few spots, and only to leapfrog the Steelers, who were expected to take Denney. Just because you got your guy doesn't mean it will work out. Why do some people feel the need to state the obvious? That statement is true for EVERY draft pick ever made.
Doc Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Pretty much confirms what I figured. Nix wouldn't do something uncharacteristic like trading up, much less 2 spots, unless the guy they wanted was in danger of being picked.
Beerball Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Except that piece was written by some Kracker named Jared and not Chris Brown. Fixed the linky, thanks. Poor ASSumption by me. Who woulda thunk that Graham would be written up by Kracker?
K-9 Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Why do we need to hear Mike Mularkey come right out and say they would have taken Graham if the Bills hadn't traded up to get him? Because some drafniks had given Graham 7th round "grades?" Because somehow taking a punter after we took Graham diminishes our decision to get him? Let's just keep is simple. The Bills liked Graham. They wanted him and ensured a way to take him. If he washes out of the league so be it. But that won't have anything to do with how and where he was taken in the draft. GO BILLS!!!
Doc Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Why do we need to hear Mike Mularkey come right out and say they would have taken Graham if the Bills hadn't traded up to get him? Because some drafniks had given Graham 7th round "grades?" Because somehow taking a punter after we took Graham diminishes our decision to get him? Let's just keep is simple. The Bills liked Graham. They wanted him and ensured a way to take him. If he washes out of the league so be it. But that won't have anything to do with how and where he was taken in the draft. GO BILLS!!! There were 2 issues: taking a player some had going in the 7th round and trading-up to get him. The reasons for trading-up has now been put to bed. Whether he was worth a 3rd rounder remains to be seen.
K-9 Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 There were 2 issues: taking a player some had going in the 7th round and trading-up to get him. The reasons for trading-up has now been put to bed. Whether he was worth a 3rd rounder remains to be seen. I don't think there ever were any issues. Then again, I don't need validation from the Mel Kipers of the world to make me feel good about something I have absolutely no control over (that's not a shot at you or anyone else, BTW). Nor do I need Mike Mularkey to come right out and say they would have taken Graham if the Bills didn't. The Bills liked him. They targeted him. They figured out a way to guarantee they would get him. In some circles that may be looked at as a good thing. I agree it all remains to be seen. And that goes for everyone from Andrew Luck to Mr. Irrelevant. GO BILLS!!!
JohnC Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) Their QB is Blaine Gabbert. They expect to punt. A LOT. A second rate punter would prove to be more than adequate. I didn't follow the Jaguars too closely last year so I can't say how bad he was. Most NFL commentators are saying that Gabbert was an abject failure. Why is that such a surprise? More often than not rookie qbs, especially on a bad team and without a reasonable training camp, will struggle. Newton is an exception not the rule for rookie qbs having an immediate impact. Gabbert is the type of qb, as most young qbs are, who needed to be groomed behind a veteran qb before he got on the field. My basic point is let's give him some more time before he is conclusively labeled a failure. (I'm not saying that you are making that point.) Edited May 3, 2012 by JohnC
bmur66 Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 I don't think there ever were any issues. Then again, I don't need validation from the Mel Kipers of the world to make me feel good about something I have absolutely no control over (that's not a shot at you or anyone else, BTW). Nor do I need Mike Mularkey to come right out and say they would have taken Graham if the Bills didn't. The Bills liked him. They targeted him. They figured out a way to guarantee they would get him. In some circles that may be looked at as a good thing. I agree it all remains to be seen. And that goes for everyone from Andrew Luck to Mr. Irrelevant. GO BILLS!!! End of story
rafter Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 A second rate punter would prove to be more than adequate. I didn't follow the Jaguars too closely last year so I can't say how bad he was. Most NFL commentators are saying that Gabbert was an abject failure. Why is that such a surprise? More often than not rookie qbs, especially on a bad team and without a reasonable training camp, will struggle. Newton is an exception not the rule for rookie qbs having an immediate impact. Gabbert is the type of qb, as most young qbs are, who needed to be groomed behind a veteran qb before he got on the field. My basic point is let's give him some more time before he is conclusively labeled a failure. (I'm not saying that you are making that point.) I agree that its unfair to judge any rookie QB after 1 season, but Gabbert was really bad. I think people would let his 33rd(last) rated QBr slide if he even had a flash of competency. He looked lost and scared. qbs
Charles Romes Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 For a guy to break a tackle in the NFL he needs to leap off the screen in college. Graham does not.
Mark Long Beach Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 I'm excited that Shawn Powell is a much better punter than Bryan Anger, and we picked up our future punter as an undrafted free agent. 2011 Stats: Powell: 57 punts 47.0 average Anger: 55 punts 44.25 average Go Bills! I sure don't watch college punters. What I've read about Anger is that he has exceptional directional punting ability & placement. Lots of punts pinning opponents close to the endzone. That's much more useful than just a big leg booming a punt from their own territory. Actually, since their QB is Gabbert, they probably will be sending lots of punts from deep in their own territory!
Mango Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Some here and elsewhere have speculated about the reasons why the Bills traded up to pick TJ Graham. Mike Mularkey was on Sirius NFL radio Wednesday. Among the things he was asked was why the Jaguars picked the punter in the third round. Mularkey basically stated that the Jaguars were going to pick someone else who was picked just before them so they went with the punter out of Cal who was high on their board. He did not say specifically that it was pick immediately before their pick, but it certainly could have been. In any event, I thought that this was interesting and certainly adds credence to why the Bills traded the extra seventh round pick to move ahead of the Jaguars. It also adds credence to the thought that other teams had Graham rated as highly as we did. I thought that some of you may be interested in the above. This is beyond an abridged version. He said that some things happened earlier in the draft that changed their board a bit. They had been eyeing Angerer, and liked him a lot. They had traded away their 4th earlier, and weren't sure if he would still be there by the time they picked in the 5th. So voila, you have the pick. They also tried ardently to get out of their pick in the 3rd and find another one, or get their 4th back, but couldn't, they where running out of time. Take solice in knowing that Mularkey was so upset after he threw a dart on the board and picked a punter Mularky mention he really got his start in the league and made a career at being a special teams coach. It is something he won't put by the wayside, and is making it his point to make the special teams in JAX one of the premier units in the league. They need to win field position given the large question mark at QB.
K-9 Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) ... Mularky mention he really got his start in the league and made a career at being a special teams coach. It is something he won't put by the wayside, and is making it his point to make the special teams in JAX one of the premier units in the league. They need to win field position given the large question mark at QB. Great point about the importance of field position. For all the talk of it being a "passing league" and how much the game has evolved, there are just some things that will never change. Field position is and always will be key. Good coaches never take this for granted. For all of our intense focus on "relevant" positions, etc., I'm amazed at our seeming disregard for the simpler aspects of the game. Things like being "strong up the middle" for instance. But that's another topic for another thread. GO BILLS!!! Edited May 3, 2012 by K-9
Cash Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Why do some people feel the need to state the obvious? That statement is true for EVERY draft pick ever made. Because a lot of people think that if you miss out on "your guy" and wind up settling for a player you don't like as much, he's likely to be a bust, but if you aggressively trade up to ensure you get "your guy", that means he'll work out. These people also tend to be swayed more by anecdotal evidence than broad-spectrum data. Hence the anecdote about a time when our favorite team aggressively traded up to get "their guy", but he wound up a bust anyway.
Reed83HOF Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 I agree that its unfair to judge any rookie QB after 1 season, but Gabbert was really bad. I think people would let his 33rd(last) rated QBr slide if he even had a flash of competency. He looked lost and scared. qbs Behind that OL and with the amazing WRs he had; the kid didn't really have a chance. Lots of rookie QB failures can be attributed to getting hit repeatedly and having no one to throw to; along with an atrocious coaching who don't have any idea on how to develop a QB. Lots of rookie QB failures are also a result of them sucking, but you at least have to put them in a position to and the tools to succeed. Back to the topic of this thread, with the run of WRs going on and this guy being the true burner of this class, we made a smart move trading up. The Jags taking a punter in the 3rd and Mularkey's comment confirms we snatched their guy. My only concern is that he is still raw and needs some work. Looking back at it are the other bigger WRs who were aviable at that time in the draft an upgrade over David Nelson size, speed and catching ability wise?
JohnC Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 I agree that its unfair to judge any rookie QB after 1 season, but Gabbert was really bad. I think people would let his 33rd(last) rated QBr slide if he even had a flash of competency. He looked lost and scared. qbs There is no doubt that Gabbert's first year was a disaster. On the field he was overwhelmed and shell shocked. There comes a point where it is not only useless to play someone who is at that point ill-equipped to handle the position but it is also damagaging to the long term development of the player. It is also unfair to him, to the team and the paying customers who want to see a real football game. The worst case of throwing an unprepared rookie qb into the starting job was Akili Smith the high first round draft pick of the Bengals. From a physical standpoint he had all the tools. But from the standpoint of understanding the game and reading defenses he was clueless. The inevitable happened when the Bengals started him right away. It was a disaster right from the start. Who knows if the Bengals would have first allowed him to learn from the sidelines, similar to the way the Packers handled Rodgers, how he might have developed?
Reed83HOF Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 There is no doubt that Gabbert's first year was a disaster. On the field he was overwhelmed and shell shocked. There comes a point where it is not only useless to play someone who is at that point ill-equipped to handle the position but it is also damagaging to the long term development of the player. It is also unfair to him, to the team and the paying customers who want to see a real football game. The worst case of throwing an unprepared rookie qb into the starting job was Akili Smith the high first round draft pick of the Bengals. From a physical standpoint he had all the tools. But from the standpoint of understanding the game and reading defenses he was clueless. The inevitable happened when the Bengals started him right away. It was a disaster right from the start. Who knows if the Bengals would have first allowed him to learn from the sidelines, similar to the way the Packers handled Rodgers, how he might have developed? I used to feel that it was good to throw a rookie QB in to learn from Day 1, but unless that player is a Peyton Manning the chances are you are going to destroy him. I have really changed my mindset on that over the years. Most young players need help to mentally get up to speed and adjust to the speed of the NFL game. Usually the starting rookie QBs are on a crap team and are put in a position to fail right away with so few pieces being able to help them. You are exactly correct about Akili Smith...
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