Junior Seau Dead @ 43

[stony]

I know this is shoddy to say, but you've got to think Goodell might have been happy for this news considering all the flack he was getting fro players regarding the Saints suspensions today. If, and I know its a big if, Seau's suicide turns out to be football/concussion related, this should really help validate what the league is trying to do for player safety. This has got to hit home for all players young or old.

[K-9]

I know this is shoddy to say, but you've got to think Goodell might have been happy for this news considering all the flack he was getting fro players regarding the Saints suspensions today. If, and I know its a big if, Seau's suicide turns out to be football/concussion related, this should really help validate what the league is trying to do for player safety. This has got to hit home for all players young or old.

 

Yeah, I'm sure Goodell was just beside himself with glee at the news of a former player's suicide.

 

WTF!

 

GO BILLS!!!

[dayman]

I know this is shoddy to say, but you've got to think Goodell might have been happy for this news considering all the flack he was getting fro players regarding the Saints suspensions today. If, and I know its a big if, Seau's suicide turns out to be football/concussion related, this should really help validate what the league is trying to do for player safety. This has got to hit home for all players young or old.

[NickelCity]

Suicides are a terrible thing to deal with. RIP and my thoughts to the Seau family.

[stony]

Yeah, I'm sure Goodell was just beside himself with glee at the news of a former player's suicide.

 

WTF!

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I obviously didn't articulate myself well enough. Take two...

 

If a silver lining can be found in these tragic events, its that players start to realize the game is ridiculously violent and what the commissioner is trying to do is actually help/ cut down on the violence and subsequent injuries later in life.

 

Sarcasm is awesome but don't try to put words in my mouth by saying he is besides himself with glee. We all know keyboards can't articulate emotion and thought as well as we'd like.

Edited May 3, 2012 by stony

[BigBuff423]

Since you claim to not really give a crap about any of this, I suppose what you could have done is displayed some dignity and self-restraint by keeping your piehole shut instead of intentionally trying to upset people who were already bothered about the death of somebody they respected. But I guess that's just not the kind of man you are.

 

 

Well done Sir....^^^

 

 

As for me, I just find suicide for a relatively young man to be truly unfortunate and sad. I realize he made the choice, but therin lies the sadness, he "chose" such an end that was utlimately unnecessary. I understand someone taking their own life when they've been given a hopeless prognosis due to a terminal illness or the pieces of sh*t that rape children and want to hang themselves in prison, by all means feel free and take your liberty....but for so many others that have much to live for and just don't realize it, I find it sad. Tragic may not be the word due to it being their "choice" but full grief for sure. I sincerely hope Junior's family can find some solace and strength during this horrible time for them.

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

Yes I am sure everyone on here [who are "upset"] Had all this "respect" for a player they never knew and now is a martyr for the NFL. Man pick better hero's. And will you get off the couch and shave? You look like a car bomber.

 

Yeah and you didn't know him either so it seems just as foolish on your part to rag on everyone else who seem to pretty much be saying that it's a sad situation. I don't think anyone here is nominating him for sainthood. At the very least the guy had family and friends that cared a lot about him. Not saying what he did was right but at this point I don't see why its so offensive to you that people are wishing for one of the best NFL players of all time to rest in peace on a football message board. Why do you frequent a football message board if you are so against the "hero worship" that players get?

[Beerball]

I just spent 45 minutes cleaning up this thread. I really don't want to have to do it again.

 

If you feel the need to be uncivil please take it to another thread; it does not belong here.

[boyst]

I wonder how many other realms of this world would a person deciding to end his own life cause such a heated discussion? It goes to show you the power, or in some cases, the lack of power sports has on man.

 

Like him or don't, know him or not, his suicide was his choice to escape the life he was living; and maybe to some they do not care, but at least realize that the life you have is what you make it. It is sad that we have to be moderated in a thread about a dead person; his life is over, ours goes on.

[CowgirlsFan]

A sad day for his family and the NFL.

[MyHorseAteTheKid]

A friend who once told me he had a gun to his head, but thinking of his children growing up without a father prevented him from pulling the trigger... I feel sorry for his family, rest in peace..

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Sad news. This stuff really doesn't happen in sports like baseball (at least to this extent).

Football players are warriors. One of our esteemed posters recently lumped football players with all other professional athletes. I was shocked by the failure to see a clear distinction between football players and for instance, baseball or basketball players.

 

… it just goes to show you that no matter what you have or what you achieved, depression doesn't discriminate. I love the big hits and hate the way the game is becoming flag football, but this shos that they do need to continue with the changes.

I agree with you and have posted similar thoughts before but I want to point out that the larger issue of brain trauma and its effects on behavior go beyond simple depression. Many former players (who are later diagnosed with CTE) display rage behavior. Uncontrollable violent thoughts and actions.

 

I'm typically about as sensitive to this sort of thing as anyone, but if he did take his own life and he's got young kids, then I'm sorry, but he's a selfish dickfuk and a coward.

 

Why are we just concerned about the kids in a story like this. Sure they may be affected most but dude had a wife (maybe, not sure) potential siblings, parents, cousins, friends, colleagues, former teammates, etc. Suicide....one of the most selfish acts a person can commit.

 

I've seen where AJ's position on this issue has evolved somewhat during this thread. I just want to comment that one could see a scenario where the taking of one's own life is anything but selfish. The "selfish" characterization (a long and traditional criticism) of suicide is another one-size-fits-all rule in our world. I don't think it applies to all suicides.

 

Amazing how we cry and worry and shake our heads in dismay when some pampered millionaire ex jock kills himself. Oh those poor babies. Wonder if the suicide rates for U.S. combat veterans would concern people as much.

So we're only allowed to feel sorry for combat veterans?

 

I just can't get past the fact that this is entertainment and these people choose to play. Not to mention they get paid millions for it. Its hard to feel bad for them.

You ought to read more on the subject… understand how the NFL's Concussion Czar spent 12 years in his position downplaying the effects of head injuries while sending concussed players like Wayne Chrebet back into games as the Jets' Team Doctor. Not only is it the NFL's dishonest position on concussions but the culture of the league itself which encourages and pressures players to "man up" and ignore their own injuries while at the same time allowing the teams and league to wash their hands of liability by shifting the onus to the players.

 

Good post. I think part of the distinction is that there was proof that cigarette companies knew that they were peddling poison, whereas the NFL seems to be making very reasonable efforts to understand an area of health where the body of knowledge is limited.

And again, this has been the case under Goodell but Goodell was the guy who got rid of the NFL's previous Concussion Czar and finally got the league to start being serious about head injuries.

 

Agreed.

 

It's like monkeys thowing **** at each other on that board....

I've lurked at PPP and it's not a pretty sight/site.

 

I just PM'd you a 35 page PDF that calls into serious question, the NFL's handling of concussion study information, as recent as 2005. Enjoy!

I'd be interested to see that too, Buftex, if you don't mind. I recently dismissed a debate with Jeremy on this subject (a bit rudely, sorry Jeremy) because I generally try to avoid debates… you don't often change other people's minds and it's ultimately an energy sink. More often people get set in their convictions and feelings get hurt.

 

But the people who put this all on the players (assuming the known risks) are taking a very narrow view of this issue, IMO.

 

Again there are many classes of players in the NFL mostly based on when they played… some knew nothing, some knew a bit more, some should have known more than they did but rationalized or hid their heads in the sand (pardon the pun) but only today's player can be accused of playing with a clear understanding of the risks involved. I think that class (today's player) is about the only one that can say this.

 

The NFL was downplaying head injuries as recently as 2004…giving players reassuring messages from their medical experts. Seau (RIP) and his generational peers probably knew some of the risks but probably didn't understand the full consequences of those risks.

 

edit: I didn't fully explain my objection to the "selfish" characterization of suicides.

 

CTE sufferers commonly suffer from "rage behavior." They have violent thoughts and actions. I believe Barrett Robbins probably suffers from CTE. Justin Strelczyk was diagnosed, and many others who became violent and were a threat to themselves and others and committed violent acts were subsequently diagnosed with CTE.

 

Getting back to "selfishness" how many times have you read in the paper that some guy "killed his entire family before turning the gun on himself?"

 

A thousand times?

 

How many times did you think to yourself, "why didn't he just kill himself?"

 

If you had constant feelings of rage and knew that no amount of medical care could cure you, and were afraid you might kill a loved one or more, would it be a selfish act to kill yourself?

 

If you knew that you would get a diagnosis of CTE and that your life insurance would pay your family millions of dollars if you killed yourself, would that be a selfish act?

Isn't the fact that these people are shooting themselves in the chest so their brains can be studied and diagnosed in fact, NOT a selfish act?

 

We live in a complex world. We should keep that in mind.

Edited May 3, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I just can't get past the fact that this is entertainment and these people choose to play. Not to mention they get paid millions for it. Its hard to feel bad for them.

 

People consistently overrate the correlation between money and happiness.

[jumbalaya]

Not to speculate, but whenever I hear about something like this involving an ex-player, I can't help but think about what effect 20+ years of high speed collisions may have had on altering brain chemistry.

 

Sad news to hear about anyone committing suicide.

This isn't only about the effects of collisions, its also about the effects of steroids. Both collisions and steroids have long term side effects that the medical field isn't yet capable of determining and most players choose to ignore. When you burn the candle at both ends the candle doesnt last as long.

[Kelly the Dog]

People consistently overrate the correlation between money and happiness.

Very true. And even more so, fame.

[K-9]

Football players are warriors. One of our esteemed posters recently lumped football players with all other professional athletes. I was shocked by the failure to see a clear distinction between football players and for instance, baseball or basketball players.

 

 

I agree with you and have posted similar thoughts before but I want to point out that the larger issue of brain trauma and its effects on behavior go beyond simple depression. Many former players (who are later diagnosed with CTE) display rage behavior. Uncontrollable violent thoughts and actions.

 

 

 

 

 

I've seen where AJ's position on this issue has evolved somewhat during this thread. I just want to comment that one could see a scenario where the taking of one's own life is anything but selfish. The "selfish" characterization (a long and traditional criticism) of suicide is another one-size-fits-all rule in our world. I don't think it applies to all suicides.

 

 

So we're only allowed to feel sorry for combat veterans?

 

 

You ought to read more on the subject… understand how the NFL's Concussion Czar spent 12 years in his position downplaying the effects of head injuries while sending concussed players like Wayne Chrebet back into games as the Jets' Team Doctor. Not only is it the NFL's dishonest position on concussions but the culture of the league itself which encourages and pressures players to "man up" and ignore their own injuries while at the same time allowing the teams and league to wash their hands of liability by shifting the onus to the players.

 

 

And again, this has been the case under Goodell but Goodell was the guy who got rid of the NFL's previous Concussion Czar and finally got the league to start being serious about head injuries.

 

 

I've lurked at PPP and it's not a pretty sight/site.

 

 

I'd be interested to see that too, Buftex, if you don't mind. I recently dismissed a debate with Jeremy on this subject (a bit rudely, sorry Jeremy) because I generally try to avoid debates… you don't often change other people's minds and it's ultimately an energy sink. More often people get set in their convictions and feelings get hurt.

 

But the people who put this all on the players (assuming the known risks) are taking a very narrow view of this issue, IMO.

 

Again there are many classes of players in the NFL mostly based on when they played… some knew nothing, some knew a bit more, some should have known more than they did but rationalized or hid their heads in the sand (pardon the pun) but only today's player can be accused of playing with a clear understanding of the risks involved. I think that class (today's player) is about the only one that can say this.

 

The NFL was downplaying head injuries as recently as 2004…giving players reassuring messages from their medical experts. Seau (RIP) and his generational peers probably knew some of the risks but probably didn't understand the full consequences of those risks.

 

edit: I didn't fully explain my objection to the "selfish" characterization of suicides.

 

CTE sufferers commonly suffer from "rage behavior." They have violent thoughts and actions. I believe Barrett Robbins probably suffers from CTE. Justin Strelczyk was diagnosed, and many others who became violent and were a threat to themselves and others and committed violent acts were subsequently diagnosed with CTE.

 

Getting back to "selfishness" how many times have you read in the paper that some guy "killed his entire family before turning the gun on himself?"

 

A thousand times?

 

How many times did you think to yourself, "why didn't he just kill himself?"

 

If you had constant feelings of rage and knew that no amount of medical care could cure you, and were afraid you might kill a loved one or more, would it be a selfish act to kill yourself?

 

If you knew that you would get a diagnosis of CTE and that your life insurance would pay your family millions of dollars if you killed yourself, would that be a selfish act?

Isn't the fact that these people are shooting themselves in the chest so their brains can be studied and diagnosed in fact, NOT a selfish act?

 

We live in a complex world. We should keep that in mind.

 

Very thoughtful post. Particularly with regard to the social stigmas attached to the act of suicide. So easy for us to label people "weak" and "selfish" without knowing how devastating and crippling mental illness can be, without ever walking a mile in those shoes. In the mind of a sick person driven to such a desperate act, suicide may indeed be the least selfish act of all. Especially when one feels that all they are is a burden to those they love.

 

I appreciate your perspective.

[DC Tom]

I wonder how many other realms of this world would a person deciding to end his own life cause such a heated discussion? It goes to show you the power, or in some cases, the lack of power sports has on man.

 

Like him or don't, know him or not, his suicide was his choice to escape the life he was living; and maybe to some they do not care, but at least realize that the life you have is what you make it. It is sad that we have to be moderated in a thread about a dead person; his life is over, ours goes on.

 

It still surprises me how basically...ignorant, really, that people are on the subject of suicide. Killing one's self is rarely a choice...rather, the choice is to not kill one's self, and that's a choice that basically has to be made continuously. Basically, suicide amounts to poor impulse control. Seau never made a decision to shoot himself; rather, he just once didn't decide not to.

 

Take it from someone who's been there multiple times, and no doubt will be again.

[BuffaloBill]

Very thoughtful post. Particularly with regard to the social stigmas attached to the act of suicide. So easy for us to label people "weak" and "selfish" without knowing how devastating and crippling mental illness can be, without ever walking a mile in those shoes. In the mind of a sick person driven to such a desperate act, suicide may indeed be the least selfish act of all. Especially when one feels that all they are is a burden to those they love.

 

I appreciate your perspective.

 

 

It was not that long ago that people believed depression was a weakness or choice. Some still do not recognize it as a disease. Someone taking their life must be in a living hell that they feel trapped within.

 

Having said all of this I do recognize that the people who pay the most are those who are left behind. Grief and loss of a loved one are hard enough without the additional burden of trying to understand the why of suicide.

[stevestojan]

Just a shame. And a shot to the chest... so violent. RIP.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Very thoughtful post. Particularly with regard to the social stigmas attached to the act of suicide. So easy for us to label people "weak" and "selfish" without knowing how devastating and crippling mental illness can be, without ever walking a mile in those shoes. In the mind of a sick person driven to such a desperate act, suicide may indeed be the least selfish act of all. Especially when one feels that all they are is a burden to those they love.

 

I appreciate your perspective.

 

This isn't the first time I've mentioned (and I'm not fishing for sympathy) but a few years back I was pretty close to committing suicide. It's a hard thing to describe, but you definitely rationalize that your loved ones will eventually be better without you in the picture.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, I realize that my family (my Mom especially) would have been beyond the point of devastation. They were in tears when I finally exposed what I almost did. But damn...sometimes you truly can't see the forest for the trees.

 

And to be quite honest, the voice that made me step back from the ledge didn't say "STOP! It will hurt your family." It said "STOP! There's so much left to accomplish". I suppose I can see the 'selfish' angle. I certainly wasn't thinking of others.

Edited May 3, 2012 by SageAgainstTheMachine