Kelly the Dog Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) To me, it is not altogether surprising that a guy who has the burning desire to smash his head into another player as hard as he can running as fast as he can (anyone who wants to be an NFL linebacker) -- who has had as many ultra violent collisions as one could imagine in his life (college plus 20 NFL seasons!) -- who suddenly is no longer in the spotlight and no longer is beloved and wanted and ball-washed by men and women alike since he retired -- has trouble dealing with the real world. Edited May 2, 2012 by Kelly the Dog
Buftex Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Amazing how we cry and worry and shake our heads in dismay when some pampered millionaire ex jock kills himself. Oh those poor babies. Wonder if the suicide rates for U.S. combat veterans would concern people as much. I get, and agree with your point...but isn't it possible to care about both issues?
Chef Jim Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Then i dont want to see a single post from you on this board about the potential outcome of the upcoming season, any games or the value of this years draft picks until at lesst the end of the season . :-) Oh no worries there. I don't chime in on that stuff here. Not really much of an interest to me.
ajzepp Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I still love football, but can't see how anyone can refuse to acknowledge what is happening here. We are witnessing a MAJOR development in the understanding of how the sport impacts its players and every one of these guys who they find with brain damage is one step closer to the tipping point of fundamentally changing the sport. The wild card is the lawsuits -- who knows when the NFL will lose the first big case and what that will mean. I bet the cigarette companies thought the day of reckoning would never arrive either. In the meanwhile, all parties involved will agree that they need to figure out how to protect the business, but make no mistake, a significant change to how football is played is coming. And I'm sure Goodell's motivation vis a vis the Saints is 99.9% based on what the lawyers recommended in the face of these lawsuits. Good post. I think part of the distinction is that there was proof that cigarette companies knew that they were peddling poison, whereas the NFL seems to be making very reasonable efforts to understand an area of health where the body of knowledge is limited. I truly feel that all Goodell can really do is use the best info/research we have, and take precautions accordingly, which includes educating the players on the risks associated with playing the game.
Thisistheyear Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) I have no clue and am wise enough not to speculate. But you go ahead. I generally agree with you, but I feel as though most people are wise enough to speculate here. One giant sign of being depressed is using a shotgun to put a hole in your chest. Does one end their existence if they aren't depressed? Maybe you're referring to a clinical definition and diagnosis of depression? In that case maybe you're right, but it seems like semantics to me. Edit - to your point about having a terminal disease and ending it all...that still seems like depression to me. But, maybe my definition is too broad. Edited May 2, 2012 by Thisistheyear
The Poojer Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 FINE!! Then dont say in advance how awesome the upcoming further, umphreys or moe. shows you are going to are going to be. :-) Oh no worries there. I don't chime in on that stuff here. Not really much of an interest to me.
Buftex Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 The problem as I see it is that the research can't stop at football. Hockey, boxing, rugby all have high rates of concussion, what's the suicide/depression rate there? Is it just a football incident? USA incident? Actually, the NHL has been having similar issues...there have been a rash of NHL players (most of the "enforcer" type) who have offed themselves over the past decade or so...and to a man, almost all suffered mulitple concussions. Sports Illustrated and "Real Sports" on HBO have done some pretty sobering reports on the issue. I am pretty sure you would find it has been an issue in boxing as well...but boxing, for all intents and purposes is an underground sport over the last 20-25 years, you don't hear about it as much, because most have never heard of the boxer.
Chef Jim Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 FINE!! Then dont say in advance how awesome the upcoming further, umphreys or moe. shows you are going to are going to be. :-) Those are from past and well documented personal experiences.
DC Tom Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Please let me know where you got your information that Seau suffered from depression. Well over 95% of all confirmed suicides have a history of depression. And by "well over 95%," I mean "practically all," with the handful that aren't being traced to such stupidity as this.
Thisistheyear Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Anyone else wonder if the drugs used to treat the various issues associated with football contribute to what seems to be an escalating suicide rate? It's not like concussions are new.
Buftex Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 No, what is odd is you would actually question why people are getting all teary eyed about a football player killing himself on a football message board, and not getting all teary eyed about soldiers committing suicide. You don't visit PPP very much, do you Kelly? You should visit, it is occupied by type A personalities, who would never make a mistake, have poor judgement, or be vulnerable to the kind of things that us lesser human beings fall prey to, so easily. They are a great bunch of personalites.
Campy Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Please let me know where you got your information that Seau suffered from depression. Good point. I'm sure there are lots of people who take their own life due to bouts of euphoria. /sarcasm
Kelly the Dog Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 You don't visit PPP very much, do you Kelly? You should visit, it is occupied by type A personalities, who would never make a mistake, have poor judgement, or be vulnerable to the kind of things that us lesser human beings fall prey to, so easily. They are a great bunch of personalites. I used to frequent PPP as much as I do this place, and did for many years. About 2-3 years ago I gave up and haven't gone back since, just because I got sick of it (mostly because I got sick of arguing and getting mad at people that I actually liked a lot, and I'm a person who very rarely gets mad at anything, except the Bills and Sabres).
Buftex Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Good post. I think part of the distinction is that there was proof that cigarette companies knew that they were peddling poison, whereas the NFL seems to be making very reasonable efforts to understand an area of health where the body of knowledge is limited. I truly feel that all Goodell can really do is use the best info/research we have, and take precautions accordingly, which includes educating the players on the risks associated with playing the game. AJ, there is lots of info out there, that they NFL has know about this for a long, long time...they hired their own doctors who came to these conclusions, and chose to ignore the info...Goodell is making strides in the area, but the players and the players union are getting more and more wise to it... the issue gets a lot more discussion now, because the sports news media (as useless as they normally are) have shed a lot of light on the individual stories, and the public is taking more notice...this isn't new to the NFL.
ajzepp Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I used to frequent PPP as much as I do this place, and did for many years. About 2-3 years ago I gave up and haven't gone back since, just because I got sick of it (mostly because I got sick of arguing and getting mad at people that I actually liked a lot, and I'm a person who very rarely gets mad at anything, except the Bills and Sabres). Too many people lack the ability to disagree without being disagreeable. Hell, a guy like Fezmid and I disagree on almost everything, but over the years he's become one of my best buds on TBD.
The Poojer Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Thats now he told some of us in an email ...Fezmid...but over the years he's become one of my best buds on TBD.
Buftex Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I used to frequent PPP as much as I do this place, and did for many years. About 2-3 years ago I gave up and haven't gone back since, just because I got sick of it (mostly because I got sick of arguing and getting mad at people that I actually liked a lot, and I'm a person who very rarely gets mad at anything, except the Bills and Sabres). Good point...I try to stay away too, but everytime I think I am out, the drag me back in!
ajzepp Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 AJ, there is lots of info out there, that they NFL has know about this for a long, long time...they hired their own doctors who came to these conclusions, and chose to ignore the info...Goodell is making strides in the area, but the players and the players union are getting more and more wise to it... the issue gets a lot more discussion now, because the sports news media (as useless as they normally are) have shed a lot of light on the individual stories, and the public is taking more notice...this isn't new to the NFL. Don't take this like I'm beign a dick, cause I have too much respect for you to be that way...but do you have any links or anything that supports what you said? I am sincerely interested in learning more about that if you're saying the NFL is suppressing or disregarding medical information. Just based on my current level of knowledge about the NFL and the steps they've taken to prevent injury, they seem pretty reasonable to me. But I would feel differently if there are feasible suggestions that have been made and the NFL has not taken action, because then we're really getting into the area of liability. The NFL clearly has more resources that most organizations to truly make strides in this area, so if they are truly doing what you said, that will really change my view of them. Thats now he told some of us in an email say wha? lol
KD in CA Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 The problem as I see it is that the research can't stop at football. Hockey, boxing, rugby all have high rates of concussion, what's the suicide/depression rate there? Is it just a football incident? USA incident? Agreed, but football 1) has the biggest problem and 2) has the deepest pockets, so for our litigious society, it will be the focus. There's no National Boxing Association worth tens of billions of dollars to sue. The reason this issue is worse in those two sports than the others is the repetition of being hit. Linemen are getting whacked in the head on every single play; 60 times a game. Ditto for practice. RBs and LBs are running into the pile and taking those hits dozens of times per game. Now do that after incurring a half dozen concussions over ten years. Ugly result.
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