NoSaint Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Skull fractures and hematomas, yes. Concussions? Not so much. Unlike fractures and hematomas, concussions can result at much lower impacts and helmets can't do anything to prevent acceleration/deceleration of the brain which is the most important factor. It's just the terrible nature of the beast. I like where new helmet technology is going, certainly. One of the companies (Riddell maybe?) is developing a helmet that will actually measure impact forces which have the potential to alert team medical staff as to whether or not a threshold has been crossed. This may allow them to intervene sooner on behalf of a player who may not even know he's at risk to begin with after a low impact collision. GO BILLS!!! those are actually in use in some schools (i believe) there was an outside the lines that highlighted them and they had trainers at a board that showed impacts.
KD in CA Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 How dare I ask for proof! Let it be known that you have still not been able to provide any... What significant volume? All of that significant volume put together is less than 1%. You may call it ridiculous if want but that is a fact. So, everything you make up is "a fact", yet everyone else has to "prove" everything to you. Logical fallacy, huh? I guess we'll just wait and see how it shakes out with Seau; though you'll naturally ignore any conclusions that don't fit your agenda. As far as credibility goes, I lost all I had for you when you resorting to name calling. Aw.....someone who wants to see more football players injured and dead got his feeling hurt by being called an idiot? If the shoe fits pal.
dogma+ Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 So, everything you make up is "a fact", yet everyone else has to "prove" everything to you. Logical fallacy, huh? I guess we'll just wait and see how it shakes out with Seau; though you'll naturally ignore any conclusions that don't fit your agenda. Except I didn't make anything up. I stated a fact. If you add all the players studied in every research study, it is less than 1% of NFL players. That's not made up. That's a truth. What you said was made up. You tried to correlate Seau's death and the NFL. There is no proof. None. You also have no proof or reason to conclude that I would ignore any conclusions that are backed up by proof. Aw.....someone who wants to see more football players injured and dead got his feeling hurt by being called an idiot? If the shoe fits pal. Feelings hurt? No. Just don't feel like wasting my time with a conversation that leads to animosity.
Captain Hindsight Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I think every hit within the whistles should be legal, minus groin hits. Bring back the arm bar. De-pussify football. So I'll see you at midfield?
KD in CA Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Except I didn't make anything up. I stated a fact. If you add all the players studied in every research study, it is less than 1% of NFL players. That's not made up. That's a truth. And as I pointed out, you apparently don't understand what a research study is. It's also a fact that less than 1% of all the people with cancer were actually included in a research study on cancer. So I guess that means cancer isn't a big deal and we should be promoting more smoking. What's relevant is the % of players affected by brain trauma from playing football and the research strongly suggests that the problem is far more widespread that you are willing to acknowledge.
Just in Atlanta Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Thought I'd pass along, for some fun, some verbatim comments from my Saints fan friend. On the commish's hand slaps to the draftees: "Watching that sanctimonious hyprocrite do anything is painful for this Saints fan. I hope he gets hit by a f-ing bus on Park Ave." On whether or not Saints fans needed a hug like the ones he was giving to draftees: "No thanks. I'd settle for him simply producing publicly the evidence of where the team paid a bounty and also knocked a player out a game." I'm afraid to ask him what he thinks about this development.
NoSaint Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) Thought I'd pass along, for some fun, some verbatim comments from my Saints fan friend. On the commish's hand slaps to the draftees: "Watching that sanctimonious hyprocrite do anything is painful for this Saints fan. I hope he gets hit by a f-ing bus on Park Ave." On whether or not Saints fans needed a hug like the ones he was giving to draftees: "No thanks. I'd settle for him simply producing publicly the evidence of where the team paid a bounty and also knocked a player out a game." I'm afraid to ask him what he thinks about this development. the lack of evidence is starting to get frustrating for fans of the saints. i enjoy them but dont live and die with every game like i do with the bills... but i cant imagine how frustrated i would be with coaches and gm getting suspended, and appeal being upheld, and now players being suspended without the league producing anything beyond what seems to be "but seriously, just trust us on this." hell, this is a board that was up in arms that the league would dispose of the spygate evidence, yet there seems to be no outcry for proof here. its an odd situation, and sounds like its headed for an ugly court case. the coaches going so quietly led me to believe that its for real (otherwise why not scream from the rooftops), but the players pushing the issue is going to be interesting to see. does the proof exist and its uglier than the nfl wants released leaving the players in a game of chicken with the league? or is it really a lot shoddier than we have been led to believe? why did the investigator resign last week? its turning into a strange story (though it could clear up a lot with some simple information). im still baffled by hargrove - essentially the explanation ive seen is he got 8 games for lying. and id add likely for the clip of him celebrating on the sidelines? Thats crazy to me. i am also (as is EVERYONE that ive spoken to) shocked that roman harper isnt being put on the shelf. if there was a guy that played on the edge, got some penalties, and was known for working guys over in the piles it was him. i think he was either the leader or very near the top on the team in penalties, and injuries from his hits. IF the program was going on, he was the one that was found would have made the most money based on the payment system released. i get the rest, assuming the stories are true, but still a bit of an assumption. Edited May 2, 2012 by NoSaint
NoSaint Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) Heres Jonathan Vilmas statement: http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/58168/jonathan-vilma-issues-statement a bold one to make if he actually did the things he was accused of doing. a lot of emphatic "never" statements in there, and he will have egg on his face if the league does have proof. theres not a lot of grey area unless he is playing a big game of chicken, or is an dancing in semantics (laid the money down, but didnt intend to actually pay it?)..... this sounds like its not just going to appeals, but possibly court. Edited May 2, 2012 by NoSaint
truth on hold Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Who cares saints are toast. Instead of lashing out at everyone else they ought to be pointing the finger the only place it belongs: themselves. Greg Williams didn't apologize and lay himself at the complete mercy of the commissioner over nothing.
NoSaint Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Who cares saints are toast. Instead of lashing out at everyone else they ought to be pointing the finger the only place it belongs: themselves. Greg Williams didn't apologize and lay himself at the complete mercy of the commissioner over nothing. agreed on the last part. and a good chunk of the middle. but i do find it curious that the players would be so confident to release a statement like vilmas.
truth on hold Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 After dropping $3.3mm maybe he thinks he has nothing to lose. I don't know, I'm kind of surprised he got as much a greg and Payton, because equating the penalty would seem to be equaling the authority, which wasn't the case since he wasn't a coach. But the flip side of reading potential innocence into the ferocity of his response, is asking how the league would dish it out if they didnt feel confident they could defend the penalty against the NFLPA and beyond. Goodell doesn't seem the type to act without getting clearance from the lawyers first.
NoSaint Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) After dropping $3.3mm maybe he thinks he has nothing to lose. I don't know, I'm kind of surprised he got as much a greg and Payton, because equating the penalty would seem to be equaling the authority, which wasn't the case since he wasn't a coach. But the flip side of reading potential innocence into the ferocity of his response, is asking how the league would dish it out if they didnt feel confident they could defend the penalty against the NFLPA and beyond. Goodell doesn't seem the type to act without getting clearance from the lawyers first. its an interesting situation. with all the talk of court, id be curious to hear what the players can do - perhaps under the cba, they dont have as much recourse as some of the talking heads are implying in this situation, and goodell is banking on that? its just not a situation that really has many shades of gray at this point - either he laid down the cash or he didnt. the levels of proof may in fact vary, but its amazing to me that both sides would be making such strong statements. Edited May 2, 2012 by NoSaint
eball Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Heres Jonathan Vilmas statement: http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/58168/jonathan-vilma-issues-statement a bold one to make if he actually did the things he was accused of doing. a lot of emphatic "never" statements in there, and he will have egg on his face if the league does have proof. theres not a lot of grey area unless he is playing a big game of chicken, or is an dancing in semantics (laid the money down, but didnt intend to actually pay it?)..... this sounds like its not just going to appeals, but possibly court. LOL -- as if Vilma wrote that statement. The NFLPA wrote it for him.
Just in Atlanta Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 What proof do you have that you're not an idiot? A presumption based on anecdotal evidence is not a logical fallacy. Frankly, your ad hominem statements represent deductive reasoning at its worst. A straw man argument implementing red herring logic and black swan blindness, actually. On TBD, we stick with syllogistic logic. I have no idea what I just said. Just wanted to sound smart like you guys
truth on hold Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) @NS, if you read goodells statement he said multiple independent sources fingered vilma (paraphrasing of course). I'm guessing at least one of those sources was greggo. So it will be a case of vilma vs other salnts players and maybe a coach. I think in a court of law he could be found guilty based on testimony of others, even if there's no hard evidence like gregs taped pre-game speech. What complicates it for saints nation is that it's not simply them against the commissioner, theres also an element of saint on saint now Edited May 2, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack
tomdayfan Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 If we can get back to commenting on the suspensions, here's a question. Since Vilma & Payton each got a year, what's the earliest you think Greggo might be reinstated? If he ever is.
truth on hold Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) If we can get back to commenting on the suspensions, here's a question. Since Vilma & Payton each got a year, what's the earliest you think Greggo might be reinstated? If he ever is. He's been so cooperative and unconditionally apologetic wouldn't surprise me if it's just year too: question is, who'd want him? Not me, because even if i thought he was good, he'd be under so much scrutiny Id be concerned he'd lose the aggressive edge those guys need. Edited May 2, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack
NoSaint Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 LOL -- as if Vilma wrote that statement. The NFLPA wrote it for him. No kidding? But you'd have to think he read/endorsed it. To put out in his name such unequivocal and specific denials is pretty bold. Espn now reporting saints sources as arguing that it was 2009 playoffs only, that the cash was all Gregg's and it never stretched past that January.
BRAWNDO Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 If we can get back to commenting on the suspensions, here's a question. Since Vilma & Payton each got a year, what's the earliest you think Greggo might be reinstated? If he ever is. Maybe two years at least.
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