UPDATE: QB Vince Young Signs With Buffalo Bills

[Sisyphean Bills]

I know you are right. HOPEFULly those opinion pieces and articles will fall into the category for Chix and Nailey "if you listen to what the fans say you'll be joining them on the sidelines soon".

It's probably worth pointing out that these guys can get overruled, if you know what I mean and I thinketh you doth.

[#34fan]

There is pretty close to zero chance that VY looks better in practice than Fitzgibbons based solely on the fact that the Bills offense is built for Fitz's skills and not Young's. VY's least amount of talent likely lies in pre-snap reading of defenses, quick decisions and spreading the ball around to the one player that the defense is not paying much attention to, which the Bills offense is predicated on. I don't see how Vince Young does real well in that practice scenario.

 

What he has a chance to do is show off some skills, so that if Fitz goes down, Gailey will know what Young does well. But I doubt that Gailey is going to spend much time getting Vince Young ready to play QB on the Bills.

 

This hasn't been discussed much here as far as I have seen, but it may be wise to cut Thigpen early, rather than have him fight it out with Young in training camp. If the Bills are practicing their spread offense only, there is a very decent chance that Thigpen looks better than Young in practice and pre-season and just beats him out, even if he is the lesser QB. If Nix wants to keep Vince Young, he may need to get rid of Thigpen now.

 

I hope you're right about Fitz Looking good in practice. I'll be thrilled to see him have to duke it out with someone for the starting gig. If he can hold off Young (and everyone else) through training camp, I'll feel A LOT better about him at the helm this season.

Edited May 13, 2012 by #34fan

[Fan in Chicago]

 

This hasn't been discussed much here as far as I have seen, but it may be wise to cut Thigpen early, rather than have him fight it out with Young in training camp. If the Bills are practicing their spread offense only, there is a very decent chance that Thigpen looks better than Young in practice and pre-season and just beats him out, even if he is the lesser QB. If Nix wants to keep Vince Young, he may need to get rid of Thigpen now.

 

I don't understand your point. Why would Nix get rid of the guy who is better suited to Gailey's style of offense. It makes little sense to keep VY if his skill set is vastly different than what Gailey is trying to do on the O. Because the offense is more than the QB, albeit the most important piece. I would rather be dispassionate about the #2 situation and keep whoever is most likely to step in and quickly continue to lead the team without too much offense modification.

[OCinBuffalo]

Congrats to @VinceYoung glad to have you!

Collapse

Glad to have you collapse? WTF?

 

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

I don't understand your point. Why would Nix get rid of the guy who is better suited to Gailey's style of offense. It makes little sense to keep VY if his skill set is vastly different than what Gailey is trying to do on the O. Because the offense is more than the QB, albeit the most important piece. I would rather be dispassionate about the #2 situation and keep whoever is most likely to step in and quickly continue to lead the team without too much offense modification.

It's not as though Nix didn't know that going in. Vince Young is never going to be successful in a cerebral, pre-snap read, quick decision short passing game. Those are none of his strengths. If he is the QB because Fitz goes down with an injury, Gailey will change the offense to take advantage of what Young does well. That is what good coaches do. Denver did it in the middle of the season last year.

 

But Young is just here because he is a more talented QB than Thigpen. Nix obviously thinks that if Fitz were to go down for the season, Young gives them a better chance to not tank this important season coming up than Thigpen does.

 

That said, the Bills don't really plan on Young playing. They plan on Fitz playing the entire year. Like most teams expect their QB to. They are going to practice 99% of the time, the offense they will run with Fitz in there. To get him ready, the WRs and RBs and TEs and OL ready. They are not going to practice an offense they will have to run if Fitz goes down for an extended period of time or the entire season. So the point is, if they only practice the offense that Fitz is going to run, Thigpen will likely outplay Young in practice in that offense, even if he is the lesser QB overall. And if they are going to let them fight it out and the best man win, TT will probably win. If they want Young to be the back-up, they may be better off eliminating the competition in an offense he is just not suited for.

 

Finally, the playbooks are enormous. There are a ton of bootleg plays and roll outs and non-quick strike precision passes that can be called if Young is thrust into the game for a couple series or a half or a game. They would not have to change the offense for that, just call different plays. If it's the entire season that Fitz goes down, or at least several games, it would be best to alter the offense around the guy, Young in this case, to best utilize his talents and mask his weaknesses.

[bananathumb]

Thank go, we have someone who can take over when Ryan fails

[Fan in Chicago]

But Young is just here because he is a more talented QB than Thigpen. Nix obviously thinks that if Fitz were to go down for the season, Young gives them a better chance to not tank this important season coming up than Thigpen does.

 

My confusion is regarding your earlier sentence that "...If the Bills are practicing their spread offense only, there is a very decent chance that Thigpen looks better than Young in practice and pre-season and just beats him out, even if he is the lesser QB."

 

If Gailey is going to evaluate the QBs based on his measures, they need to be fair and open. Just because he feels that Thigpen may win out the battle in practice does not mean you pre-emptively CUT him. Either VY is a better QB or not. Each needs to be given a full chance to compete for the #2 spot.

[benderbender]

Truthfully, I was surprised by Young's poor showing with the Iggles last year. I didn't want him here as a starting QB, I'm not sure I want him here as a backup QB, and I thought he was better than he showed last year.

I'm hoping we at least keep Alex Tanney on the practice squad for when Vince goes mental again. Thigpen is a waste of space. It angers me thinking about how Fitzcrackedribs didn't have a choice but to play on an injury because they thought a 50% Fitz was better than a well-rested 100% Thigpen

[Kelly the Dog]

My confusion is regarding your earlier sentence that "...If the Bills are practicing their spread offense only, there is a very decent chance that Thigpen looks better than Young in practice and pre-season and just beats him out, even if he is the lesser QB."

 

If Gailey is going to evaluate the QBs based on his measures, they need to be fair and open. Just because he feels that Thigpen may win out the battle in practice does not mean you pre-emptively CUT him. Either VY is a better QB or not. Each needs to be given a full chance to compete for the #2 spot.

Thats the problem, then you are wasting time in practice trying to figure out who should be your back-up. They shouldnt be wasting their time doing that. That was my point. If they want Young to be the back-up, they're better off releasing Thigpen before training camp, because he's likely to beat Young out in a fair competition. It MAY be that they are not looking for production in this evaluation, and just looking to see how well Young handles an offense he is not built for, how quickly he picks stuff up, how he adpats, how he gets along with teammates.

 

It may be they are not ready to just hand him the job, and they could keep him even if TT outperforms him just because they like what they see.

[kabnt2005]

I would like to extend the thank you to kabnt2005 into this thread. I appreciate you sharing your information with us even when you take some abuse about it's legitimacy. Thanks for sharing, keep it coming.

 

 

+1

 

I'm glad those privy to inside info aren't afraid to share despite the mockery

 

 

I too would like to extend an atta boy to him. I wanted him to prove himself and at least on this occasion, he did.

 

 

Thanks all. I'll share what I can when I hear of things going down.

 

And Fan in Chicago, if you look back at the Mario Williams signing, I was calling the Bills going after Williams and Meachem before free agency started and got ripped on for that too.

[QCity]

If Gailey is going to evaluate the QBs based on his measures, they need to be fair and open. Just because he feels that Thigpen may win out the battle in practice does not mean you pre-emptively CUT him. Either VY is a better QB or not. Each needs to be given a full chance to compete for the #2 spot.

I think this is exactly what's going to happen. Every interview with Buddy about new players has him talking about "competing for a job." If VY can't beat out Thigpen he will be the one getting the boot (and fans will rage).

 

I'm hoping we at least keep Alex Tanney on the practice squad for when Vince goes mental again. Thigpen is a waste of space. It angers me thinking about how Fitzcrackedribs didn't have a choice but to play on an injury because they thought a 50% Fitz was better than a well-rested 100% Thigpen

The "Fitz cracked ribs" thing is getting way, way overblown. 50% Fitz??? The rib injury is a convenient excuse for a QB who played terrible in the second half of the season, maybe even some kind of defense mechanism for fans that don't want to accept that. Not a single analyst, announcer, columnist, or sports writer noticed anything wrong with Fitz over the last 8 games (injury-wise that is).

 

If you want to blame Fitz's struggles on the offensive line injuries, Freddy going down, or the lack of a #2 receiver then fine, but the ribs excuse doesn't hold water.

[eball]

If you want to blame Fitz's struggles on the offensive line injuries, Freddy going down, or the lack of a #2 receiver then fine, but the ribs excuse doesn't hold water.

Have you ever cracked ribs and then tried to do anything (much less play professional QB)? I don't care whether it's 50%, 60%, or 95% -- Fitz was clearly not the same player after that hit. And yes, all of the other factors you mentioned were at play as well.

 

In sum, there are numerous "excuses" for Fitz' dropoff last season, including, certainly, his own poor decisions. I don't know why we can't all reasonably agree on that, and also feel optimistic about solving the OL problems (both starting and depth), bringing in another good QB coach, getting Fred back, and awaiting one of a deep group of WRs to step up alongside Stevie. All of this together does point towards seeing more of the Fitz from the first seven games of last season.

[BuffaloBaumer]

If you want to blame Fitz's struggles on the offensive line injuries, Freddy going down, or the lack of a #2 receiver then fine, but the ribs excuse doesn't hold water.

 

 

I can't think of anything further from the truth. An NFL QB with cracked ribs? You want to put lack of a #2 receiver ahead of that on the excuse list? You go back and watch the hit by Fletcher in Toronto and tell me he was fine......

[QCity]

In sum, there are numerous "excuses" for Fitz' dropoff last season, including, certainly, his own poor decisions. I don't know why we can't all reasonably agree on that

Oh I do agree with that. Maybe I should have said "the ribs excuse alone."

 

I can't think of anything further from the truth. An NFL QB with cracked ribs? You want to put lack of a #2 receiver ahead of that on the excuse list? You go back and watch the hit by Fletcher in Toronto and tell me he was fine......

I've watched NFL QB's play with cracked ribs over the last 4 decades. It's an incredibly painful injury that makes simple tasks like breathing laborious. Despite how painful it is, the consensus is that is doesn't tremendously effect throwing accuracy, and if it does, the QB sits the bench. Tony Romo played with cracked ribs and a punctured lung last year. I'm sure Fitz was hampered a bit last season but we never saw him wincing after throws, favoring his side, or appearing in pain on the sidelines. In fact, it was so unnoticeable that people were shocked when it came out in February.

[Orton's Arm]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

He has nothing left to lose, and with Thigpen as our backup, neither do we.

 

There is no--REPEAT, NO--harm in this.

The harm in this is that the Bills are squandering a roster spot on a first round QB bust. That same roster spot could be used on a young guy with promise, like Tanney or Corp. Even if it's only a 1% chance of Tanney or Corp becoming the answer, that's still 1% more than is the case with Vince Young. I like 99% of what Nix has done this off season. I don't like this.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The "Fitz cracked ribs" thing is getting way, way overblown. 50% Fitz??? The rib injury is a convenient excuse for a QB who played terrible in the second half of the season, maybe even some kind of defense mechanism for fans that don't want to accept that. Not a single analyst, announcer, columnist, or sports writer noticed anything wrong with Fitz over the last 8 games (injury-wise that is).

 

If you want to blame Fitz's struggles on the offensive line injuries, Freddy going down, or the lack of a #2 receiver then fine, but the ribs excuse doesn't hold water.

 

Wow, I can't fathom this viewpoint at all. Have you ever had a cracked rib? Even a badly bruised rib? A friend with same?

 

I'm sure the OL injuries (esp. Wood and LT), Freddie, SJ playing hurt, and lack of #2 all played a role. But anyone who has ever had even a badly bruised rib much less cracked ribs, knows that it makes physical activities like, oh, lying still breathing, very difficult. I can't imagine trying to throw or taking repeated hits in that condition.

 

As far as it being a "convenient excuse for a QB", please note that Fitz essentially lied about his injury to avoid any appearance of making excuse.

 

And yeah, cracked ribs have about a 50% incidence of being missed on xray exam, so it stands to reason if it were real, announcers and columnists would obviously have noticed <-sarcasm

It made such a better story to blame it on a "stupid contract" causing complacency.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The harm in this is that the Bills are squandering a roster spot on a first round QB bust. That same roster spot could be used on a young guy with promise, like Tanney or Corp. Even if it's only a 1% chance of Tanney or Corp becoming the answer, that's still 1% more than is the case with Vince Young. I like 99% of what Nix has done this off season. I don't like this.

 

I'm not thrilled on the Young signing myself, I'm not sure I'd call him a first round QB bust though. Did he achieve what was hoped for him, becoming "The Man" for the Titans, no.

Two pro-bowls and some success make it hard to apply the same word that's used to describe JaBustus Russell and Ryan Leaf.

 

There is a reasonably common pattern of talented QB who aren't busts, but aren't "all that" with their 1st team and who switch teams and find a greater level success - Steve Young, Vick by a number of measures, maybe Cutler, Warner going to AZ for a rebirth after being given the boot in St Louis and benched with the Giants.

 

I'm not saying VY will do this, I'm not saying he wont do this, I am saying I think his chances are realistically > 1% since he's already proven he can play at the pro level in some fashion, and also > than UDFA rookie.

[Sisyphean Bills]

I'm not thrilled on the Young signing myself, I'm not sure I'd call him a first round QB bust though. Did he achieve what was hoped for him, becoming "The Man" for the Titans, no.

Two pro-bowls and some success make it hard to apply the same word that's used to describe JaBustus Russell and Ryan Leaf.

 

There is a reasonably common pattern of talented QB who aren't busts, but aren't "all that" with their 1st team and who switch teams and find a greater level success - Steve Young, Vick by a number of measures, maybe Cutler, Warner going to AZ for a rebirth after being given the boot in St Louis and benched with the Giants.

 

I'm not saying VY will do this, I'm not saying he wont do this, I am saying I think his chances are realistically > 1% since he's already proven he can play at the pro level in some fashion, and also > than UDFA rookie.

The real question is if Young is an upgrade to Thigpen. With Thigpen, the Bills gave every indication they had a backup QB that they never wanted to take a snap under any circumstance, meaningful or not. I can't get the image of Thigpen fumbling around with his helmet (giving it a "what the **** is this thing" look) next to Chan, who casually signals for a timeout, after Fitz took a wicked shot...

 

Young, on the other hand, may be a guy that Gailey would be willing to send onto the field -- we don't know at this point. But, if he could be, then he is an upgrade at the #2 QB position. Assuming he minds his Ps and Qs and isn't an active cancer in the locker room.

[Orton's Arm]

I'm not thrilled on the Young signing myself, I'm not sure I'd call him a first round QB bust though. Did he achieve what was hoped for him, becoming "The Man" for the Titans, no.

Two pro-bowls and some success make it hard to apply the same word that's used to describe JaBustus Russell and Ryan Leaf.

 

There is a reasonably common pattern of talented QB who aren't busts, but aren't "all that" with their 1st team and who switch teams and find a greater level success - Steve Young, Vick by a number of measures, maybe Cutler, Warner going to AZ for a rebirth after being given the boot in St Louis and benched with the Giants.

 

I'm not saying VY will do this, I'm not saying he wont do this, I am saying I think his chances are realistically > 1% since he's already proven he can play at the pro level in some fashion, and also > than UDFA rookie.

I'll begin by discussing the pattern you've described. The Bucs team which drafted Steve Young exemplified a badly run franchise. They threw their QB into the fire, with no actual OL to protect him. Instead of drafting players to improve the OL, they used their early picks on defensive players--especially DBs--and on a RB who never actually signed with the team. I even think some of those early round DBs went first-contract-and-out! The Bucs gave up on Young after just two years, and after zero effort to surround him with decent pass protection or a good supporting cast.

 

Cutler had good success with the Broncos, which is why they were able to trade him away for two first round picks plus Kyle Orton. That's two more first round picks, and one more Kyle Orton, than the Titans received for Young.

 

Warner achieved great success with the Rams, leading the team to two Super Bowl appearances, including one win. His play subsequently declined due to injury, and he was let go because the team thought he'd never return to anywhere close to his pre-injury form. Obviously they were wrong.

 

That leaves Vick, who has in fact played at a much higher level these last two years than he did with the Falcons. Vick demonstrates that the kind of improvement you've described can happen, even if such stories aren't necessarily all that common. Maybe Vince Young is another Michael Vick story: he isn't another Kurt Warner, Jay Cutler, or Steve Young story.

 

On the other hand, the Bills seem to have this year's two best UDFA QBs. Admittedly, the success rate for UDFAs is very low. On the other hand, the rate of Michael Vick stories is probably at least equally low. And while any given UDFA QB is going to be a long shot, Tanney and Corp are far more promising long shots than most!

[Jim in Anchorage]

I'll begin by discussing the pattern you've described. The Bucs team which drafted Steve Young exemplified a badly run franchise. They threw their QB into the fire, with no actual OL to protect him. Instead of drafting players to improve the OL, they used their early picks on defensive players--especially DBs--and on a RB who never actually signed with the team. I even think some of those early round DBs went first-contract-and-out! The Bucs gave up on Young after just two years, and after zero effort to surround him with decent pass protection or a good supporting cast.

 

Cutler had good success with the Broncos, which is why they were able to trade him away for two first round picks plus Kyle Orton. That's two more first round picks, and one more Kyle Orton, than the Titans received for Young.

 

Warner achieved great success with the Rams, leading the team to two Super Bowl appearances, including one win. His play subsequently declined due to injury, and he was let go because the team thought he'd never return to anywhere close to his pre-injury form. Obviously they were wrong.

 

That leaves Vick, who has in fact played at a much higher level these last two years than he did with the Falcons. Vick demonstrates that the kind of improvement you've described can happen, even if such stories aren't necessarily all that common. Maybe Vince Young is another Michael Vick story: he isn't another Kurt Warner, Jay Cutler, or Steve Young story.

 

On the other hand, the Bills seem to have this year's two best UDFA QBs. Admittedly, the success rate for UDFAs is very low. On the other hand, the rate of Michael Vick stories is probably at least equally low. And while any given UDFA QB is going to be a long shot, Tanney and Corp are far more promising long shots than most!

Have you ever noticed Pittsburgh's horrible OL? Yet Ben has SB rings. Vick? sitting hurt on the bench? Oh yeah that's a improvement