uncle flap Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 I recognize that you prefaced your statement about VY starting with a big "IF" but I have to mention that VY was beat out by TE for the #2 spot in Philly. It's hard to imagine that VY has matured so much in one year that he's now ready to compete for a starting job. But, I guess, stranger things have happened. I've seen this oft-repeated here, and it simply isn't true. They were only technically on the team at the same time for a short period, and that short time was during this offseason. Kafka will be given every opportunity to be the 2nd string QB and is penciled in at that position for the time being. He has been in the organization longer. Edwards was merely brought in for competition's sake. The Eagles had already decided not to extend VY's one year contract, and VY was intent on seeking greener pastures - somewhere he could push for the starting job.(Whether or not that's the case in Buffalo, that was his intent) Sure you can interpret the course of events to signal the Eagles value Trent more than Young, but to me it has less about the comparison of the two head to head, and more about giving Kafka a chance to prove his worth. At no time were Edwards and Young in a training camp battle or even involved in any team activities as Eagles. Edwards could not "beat out" VY simply because there was never any opportunity to do so. Now, I don't want to argue semantics here. If anyone believes Edwards made Young expendable, fine. I would argue Kafka is the one who makes VY expendable. http://articles.philly.com/2012-05-09/sports/31627060_1_training-camp-nick-foles-howie-roseman http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/36487/eagles-to-sign-qb-trent-edwards I guess this means 1gap2gap is outta here. That's too bad. hahaha I already forgot about that! Did someone tell him VY isn't Vick?
Malazan Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 Good lord, backup QB who may not even beat out his competition gets a thread so long it has to be split. TBD - We love Players we have heard of before! The bigger the name the better!
uncle flap Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 I would like to extend the thank you to kabnt2005 into this thread. I appreciate you sharing your information with us even when you take some abuse about it's legitimacy. Thanks for sharing, keep it coming. +1 I'm glad those privy to inside info aren't afraid to share despite the mockery
bbb Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 Please tell me that VY is just making it easier to type here and that's not really his nickname, like LT - which has been taking twice.
CosmicBills Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 I see extremely little chance of this turning into a QB controversy and the only way that happens is if Fitz completely craps the bed. The thing is, if Fitz completely craps the bed, there is no good reason to believe he will be a playoff QB anymore. In that respect, it's hard to imagine a bad scenario. This is the year that Fitz has to take control of this team and become a playoff QB. If he doesn't advance, then we need to start thinking we need a starter upgrade not a back-upgrade. I'm reasonably confident that Fitz is going to have a great year. If he doesn't, everything is fair game. The same with Gailey for that matter. Stop being logical!
Fan in Chicago Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 I would like to extend the thank you to kabnt2005 into this thread. I appreciate you sharing your information with us even when you take some abuse about it's legitimacy. Thanks for sharing, keep it coming. I too would like to extend an atta boy to him. I wanted him to prove himself and at least on this occasion, he did.
bowery4 Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 I was against signing him but if they want him here, I am okay with it. I hope they gave him some tests to see if he was crazy though, he just seems to have borderline personality disorder.
Pilsner Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 I was against signing him but if they want him here, I am okay with it. I hope they gave him some tests to see if he was crazy though, he just seems to have borderline personality disorder. Same here, I was against signing him too. I'll have to trust Nix's judgement on this but I have reservations. I wonder if Gailey is on board with this as much as Nix is. This signing just runs against the type of character the team is being built on. Since VY is on the team now I hope he pans out and grows up. Signing a headcase is a headscrarcher for sure no matter how physically talented he is. If he revisits his previous shennanigans then cut him immediately. Well here's to hoping for the best anyhow.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 IMHO, the cheap and short deal that he accepted pretty much tells me he was getting little to no interest from the rest of the league even for the #2 QB position. Even in Buffalo, he is stated by Nix as challenging for the #2 spot ergo he was hired as a #3QB. This is quite the fall from grace for a once Pro Bowl QB. The coaches and FO may really mean that they intend for him to firmly be in the #2 spot at best but will the fans believe it ? Will the media, always looking for some controversy, let the situation be as is if Fitz has a couple of poor games ? The risk to me is not in his ability, it is the likely drama that may happen in the media and among fans Of course the media will make a controversy out of it, just as they made a controversy out of Fitz's contract as a cause of his poor 2nd half of the season play - despite obvious injuries decimating the OL and WR corp and some indications that Fitz was playing hurt. Fans will also make a controversy out of it. I don't think those media-contrived and fan controversies necessarily impact the team too much, unless someone on the team is susceptible to them. The real question will be what happens in the locker room and the team meetings. The available evidence points that the locker room never lost faith in Fitz or pointed at him as the issue last season and he doesn't seem particularly fragile-minded.
SelmonSmith6378 Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 Remember when he landed on the Eagles and everyone thought it was the "dream team" (laughs hysterically)
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 Remember when he landed on the Eagles and everyone thought it was the "dream team" (laughs hysterically) Truthfully, I was surprised by Young's poor showing with the Iggles last year. I didn't want him here as a starting QB, I'm not sure I want him here as a backup QB, and I thought he was better than he showed last year.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 Same here, I was against signing him too. I'll have to trust Nix's judgement on this but I have reservations. I wonder if Gailey is on board with this as much as Nix is. This signing just runs against the type of character the team is being built on. Since VY is on the team now I hope he pans out and grows up. Signing a headcase is a headscrarcher for sure no matter how physically talented he is. If he revisits his previous shennanigans then cut him immediately. Well here's to hoping for the best anyhow. Pilsner, Chan must have bought in but my interpretation of the Chan pressers on buffalobills.com is that Chan is not thrilled: -"Well, Buddy does all the evaluations and I didn't look at him to be honest with you" -"We've talked all along about bringing in guys who can compete for a job and he can compete for a job" He looks really uncomfortable - when he's asked the first question his shoulders go up and down like "oh, boy, here it starts". His eyes aren't making contact. When he says "I watched him earlier in his career and he's done some great things" he is shaking his head "no" the whole time, and while he nods his head "yes" when saying "bringing in guys who can compete for a job" it becomes side to side "no" when he says "and he can compete for a job". It's not until he's asked what do you see as his best strengths? that he starts looking comfortable. His voice drops lower, his body relaxes. He talks about how Young's got a great arm, everyone knows his mobility, he's won games, and he sounds sincere. Then he says "when he gets here we'll teach him the basics and go from there, there's no telling what he can do" and repeats twice "he said all the right things when he was here". Overall he sounds like the stereotype of a Yiddish compliment, when you say a girl is smart it means she's homely, if you say a girl is beautiful it implies she has no brains. And he says "I'm looking forward to working with him" but somehow he doesn't sound like he really means it.
Bill from NYC Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 I do not think VY is as clueless under pressure as Rob Johnson was so it will not be. I agree, and do not see a controversy. Fitz is (imo) going to be a better player this season. Why shouldn't he be? It was obvious to me (and I said so in my "thoughts") that he was injured last year. Plus, he now has a full season under his belt as a full time starter. This is not to say that he is an elite qb, but he can get us to the playoffs imo. It's possible. Imo, this was a great move. We now have an experienced backup qb who has won a bunch of games. If he screws up, they can simply cut him. And, they will probably be drafting a qb soon under any conditions. In short, it's all good.
Fan in Chicago Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 I agree, and do not see a controversy. Fitz is (imo) going to be a better player this season. Why shouldn't he be? It was obvious to me (and I said so in my "thoughts") that he was injured last year. Plus, he now has a full season under his belt as a full time starter. This is not to say that he is an elite qb, but he can get us to the playoffs imo. It's possible. I hear what you and others are saying but let us see what happens if (when ?) Fitz has two bad games in a row.Despite the coaches insisting they will stick with Fitz, there will be opinion pieces, articles etc advocating 'giving VY a shot'. I hope it doesn't happen but hiring him is the first real distraction potential on this squad.
SWVABillsFan Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 I hear what you and others are saying but let us see what happens if (when ?) Fitz has two bad games in a row.Despite the coaches insisting they will stick with Fitz, there will be opinion pieces, articles etc advocating 'giving VY a shot'. I hope it doesn't happen but hiring him is the first real distraction potential on this squad. Jets, Chiefs, Browns, Patriots; 1st 4 games. 2 games and out is way to early for me to bech Fitz. I am however intrigued as to how Chan and the other qb coach will be able to work with Vince. I have always liked Vince since college, he was one of the players they missed on I was hoping Buffalo would draft. He has all the physical tools. Tim Graham was drafted with the long ball in mind. So not to say when or start anything but how long do yo uthink they go until they get a qb who can unload the ball when he gets gone? I wish Fitz the best; but, I would love to see the days of the ball aired out again like Kelly did. Graham reminds me a lil of Tim Brown. So if it takes the pre season to see it love to see Vince uncork one long to Graham, or Spiller. I am on the Fitz train until about game 4 or 5 but if he fails then they HAVE to look. This team is too close to the playoffs barring a couple of bad things happen to let injured qb play keep them out again. I have zero confidence in Thigpen. My 3 qb's are Fitz, Young, Tanney.
Lurker Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) there will be opinion pieces, articles etc advocating 'giving VY a shot'. That only happens if he lights it up in preseason. If he has a pedestrian training camp, no one in their right mind (or media people whoring out for attention) will be clamoring to see him, based on his performance last year... Edited May 12, 2012 by Lurker
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 I hear what you and others are saying but let us see what happens if (when ?) Fitz has two bad games in a row.Despite the coaches insisting they will stick with Fitz, there will be opinion pieces, articles etc advocating 'giving VY a shot'. I hope it doesn't happen but hiring him is the first real distraction potential on this squad. I know you are right. HOPEFULly those opinion pieces and articles will fall into the category for Chix and Nailey "if you listen to what the fans say you'll be joining them on the sidelines soon". That only happens if he lights it up in preseason. If he has a pedestrian training camp, no one in their right mind (or media people whoring out for attention) will be clamoring to see him, based on his performance last year... Right mind - check. Lots of fans in their left mind (or maybe with their mind having left) will be clamoring based on his 1) BCS win 2) draft position 3) former pro bowl appearances
Lurker Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 Lots of fans in their left mind (or maybe with their mind having left) will be clamoring based on his 1) BCS win 2) draft position 3) former pro bowl appearances Yeah, there's always the drunks...
JohnC Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 I hear what you and others are saying but let us see what happens if (when ?) Fitz has two bad games in a row.Despite the coaches insisting they will stick with Fitz, there will be opinion pieces, articles etc advocating 'giving VY a shot'. I hope it doesn't happen but hiring him is the first real distraction potential on this squad. If a player is not playing well, no matter the position, and the HC believes that a replacement would do a better job and give the team a better chance to win then what would be wrong with making the switch? I'm sure that CG wouldn't casually make a change at the qb position. But if a substitute player demonstrated in practice that he is a better player than the starting player then he would have no qualms making the switch. It wasn't that long ago that the HC for the Eagles switched to Vick in place of McNabb because he simply outperformed him and gave the team a better chance to succeed. I'm not saying that it would happen with Young replacing Fitz, but if a similar scenario played out then it could happen.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 13, 2012 Posted May 13, 2012 If a player is not playing well, no matter the position, and the HC believes that a replacement would do a better job and give the team a better chance to win then what would be wrong with making the switch? I'm sure that CG wouldn't casually make a change at the qb position. But if a substitute player demonstrated in practice that he is a better player than the starting player then he would have no qualms making the switch. It wasn't that long ago that the HC for the Eagles switched to Vick in place of McNabb because he simply outperformed him and gave the team a better chance to succeed. I'm not saying that it would happen with Young replacing Fitz, but if a similar scenario played out then it could happen. There is pretty close to zero chance that VY looks better in practice than Fitzgibbons based solely on the fact that the Bills offense is built for Fitz's skills and not Young's. VY's least amount of talent likely lies in pre-snap reading of defenses, quick decisions and spreading the ball around to the one player that the defense is not paying much attention to, which the Bills offense is predicated on. I don't see how Vince Young does real well in that practice scenario. What he has a chance to do is show off some skills, so that if Fitz goes down, Gailey will know what Young does well. But I doubt that Gailey is going to spend much time getting Vince Young ready to play QB on the Bills. This hasn't been discussed much here as far as I have seen, but it may be wise to cut Thigpen early, rather than have him fight it out with Young in training camp. If the Bills are practicing their spread offense only, there is a very decent chance that Thigpen looks better than Young in practice and pre-season and just beats him out, even if he is the lesser QB. If Nix wants to keep Vince Young, he may need to get rid of Thigpen now.
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