thebandit27 Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 i was smarter than past regimes. No question about it. It remains to be seen with this one. Anyway, absent a trade down I would have taken either Ingram or OT. Reason is you can NEVER have enough pass rushers (See Giants, Umenyoira goes down, JPP, who many said NYG did not need at the time, steps up and becomes best rusher) and the Bills have consistently neglected LT. We need to solidify the OL. We saw what Fitz did last year with cracked ribs. I just don't believe in taking any secondary players in Round 1. I believe you can find them later in the draft. I was curious about this, so I did some research. Here are the 64 projected starting CBs in the NFL for the 2012 season, and the round they were drafted in: Buffalo-Williams 2 Florence 2 Miami-Davis 1 Smith 2 New England-Dowling 2 McCourty 1 New York Jets-Revis 1 Cromartie 1 Baltimore-Smith 1 Webb 4 Cincinnati-Hall 1 Newman 1 Cleveland-Haden 1 Brown 3 Pittsburgh-Taylor 3 Brown 3 Houston-Joseph 1 Jackson 1 Indianapolis-Thomas 3 Powers 3 Jacksonville-Ross 1 Mathis 2 Tennessee-McCourty 6 Vernor 4 Denver-Bailey 1 Porter 2 Kansas City-Flowers 2 Routt 2 Oakland-Spencer 2 Bartell 2 San Diego-Jammer 1 Cason 1 Dallas-Carr 3 Claiborne 1 New York-Giants Webster 2 Thomas 2 Philadelphia-Asomugha 1 Rogers-Cromartie 1 Washington-Wilson 2 Hall 1 Chicago Jennings-2 Tillman 2 Detroit Houston-2 Berry UDFA Green Bay-Woodson 1 Williams UDFA Minnesota-Winfield 1 Cook 2 Atlanta-Robinson 1 Grimes UDFA Carolina-Gamble 1 Munnerlyn 7 New Orleans-Robinson 1 Greer UDFA Tampa Bay-Talib 1 Barber 3 Arizona-Peterson 1 Jefferson UDFA St. Louis-Finnegan 4 Fletcher 3 San Francisco-Rogers 1 Brown 5 Seattle Sherman-5 Trufant 1 27 were drafted in the first round (42%), and another 17 (26.5%) were drafted in the 2nd. That means that over 2/3 of the starting CBs in the league were drafted in the first 2 rounds. Not sure how it compares to other positions (I don't have THAT much time on my hands), but it looks like starting CBs mainly come from the top 2 rounds. Whether or not that changes your perception at all (or whether it should for that matter), is not for me to say. Just thought I'd present the info for those interested.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 He hits hard, but he' only 6 feet, 190. He's 15 pounds less than Williams. Essentially the same size as McKelvin. If he has Winfield's career, he'll be gone in 5 years... Just curious, but do you ever saying anything positive about this team or is it all female dogging? If the Bills made me as miserable as they appear to make you, I'd find another hobby.
It's in My Blood Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 He hits hard, but he' only 6 feet, 190. He's 15 pounds less than Williams. Essentially the same size as McKelvin. If he has Winfield's career, he'll be gone in 5 years... Everything you post is negative, EVERYTHING. I think your a closet Pats fan and the Bills are your beard.
SWVABillsFan Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 Just curious, but do you ever saying anything positive about this team or is it all female dogging? If the Bills made me as miserable as they appear to make you, I'd find another hobby. 6'0 190, face to face I wonder how long you could stand with him. That coming from a 6'3 215 guy.
silvermike Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 If he has Winfield's career, he'll be gone in 5 years... We should avoid drafting players who will be so successful they draw big offers on the open market, yes. The only problem with Winfield was Donahoe letting him go.
Awwufelloff Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 I was curious about this, so I did some research. Here are the 64 projected starting CBs in the NFL for the 2012 season, and the round they were drafted in: Buffalo-Williams 2 Florence 2 Miami-Davis 1 Smith 2 New England-Dowling 2 McCourty 1 New York Jets-Revis 1 Cromartie 1 Baltimore-Smith 1 Webb 4 Cincinnati-Hall 1 Newman 1 Cleveland-Haden 1 Brown 3 Pittsburgh-Taylor 3 Brown 3 Houston-Joseph 1 Jackson 1 Indianapolis-Thomas 3 Powers 3 Jacksonville-Ross 1 Mathis 2 Tennessee-McCourty 6 Vernor 4 Denver-Bailey 1 Porter 2 Kansas City-Flowers 2 Routt 2 Oakland-Spencer 2 Bartell 2 San Diego-Jammer 1 Cason 1 Dallas-Carr 3 Claiborne 1 New York-Giants Webster 2 Thomas 2 Philadelphia-Asomugha 1 Rogers-Cromartie 1 Washington-Wilson 2 Hall 1 Chicago Jennings-2 Tillman 2 Detroit Houston-2 Berry UDFA Green Bay-Woodson 1 Williams UDFA Minnesota-Winfield 1 Cook 2 Atlanta-Robinson 1 Grimes UDFA Carolina-Gamble 1 Munnerlyn 7 New Orleans-Robinson 1 Greer UDFA Tampa Bay-Talib 1 Barber 3 Arizona-Peterson 1 Jefferson UDFA St. Louis-Finnegan 4 Fletcher 3 San Francisco-Rogers 1 Brown 5 Seattle Sherman-5 Trufant 1 27 were drafted in the first round (42%), and another 17 (26.5%) were drafted in the 2nd. That means that over 2/3 of the starting CBs in the league were drafted in the first 2 rounds. Not sure how it compares to other positions (I don't have THAT much time on my hands), but it looks like starting CBs mainly come from the top 2 rounds. Whether or not that changes your perception at all (or whether it should for that matter), is not for me to say. Just thought I'd present the info for those interested. /Thread.
IHFO Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 Just curious, but do you ever saying anything positive about this team or is it all female dogging? If the Bills made me as miserable as they appear to make you, I'd find another hobby. +1
Lurker Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 He hits hard, but he' only 6 feet, 190. He's 15 pounds less than Williams. Essentially the same size as McKelvin. You do know that Winfield's listed at 5' 9" and 180 pounds, right?
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 You do know that Winfield's listed at 5' 9" and 180 pounds, right? Go away with your stupid facts.
QCity Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 the Bills have consistently neglected LT. We need to solidify the OL. I think very few people would argue this. I would be thrilled to get a stud LT, it's an obvious need. But the question I ask is - WHO? There was one LT that went in round 1 - Kalil. Minnesota never had any intention of letting him get past them. They played Cleveland beautifully for some extra picks. Reiff has neither the length or footwork of an NFL LT. Would it have been a sound move to take Martin/Glenn/Adams/etc at 10, knowing what we know now? Absolutely not! If the Bills truly covet one of those OTs they can trade up for them and still get an incredible amount of value over taking one in the first round.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 What matters is how these guys play as a team on the field, and anything less than the playoffs this year to me will be a sizable failure. But you have to like the kind of guys Nix has been assembling. Stephon really seems like a tremendous kid with a great attitude and good character. It means little if he cannot play but he seems to be able to play at a top level too. It's very hard not to like the kid though.
DrDawkinstein Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 i was smarter than past regimes. No question about it. It remains to be seen with this one. Anyway, absent a trade down I would have taken either Ingram or OT. Reason is you can NEVER have enough pass rushers (See Giants, Umenyoira goes down, JPP, who many said NYG did not need at the time, steps up and becomes best rusher) and the Bills have consistently neglected LT. We need to solidify the OL. We saw what Fitz did last year with cracked ribs. I just don't believe in taking any secondary players in Round 1. I believe you can find them later in the draft. Fair enough reply. I liked Ingram a lot too, but he was available and Nix passed on him, and I trust Nix's judgement as it has been an obvious priority of his from Day 1 to add to the DL. I would loved to have seen an LT as well, but neither of us can name anyone that was available at #10 yesterday that we liked. Reiff at #10 wouldve been a disaster, imo. This is a passing league, and the best passing offense in the NFL just happens to play in our division. I was curious about this, so I did some research. Here are the 64 projected starting CBs in the NFL for the 2012 season, and the round they were drafted in: Buffalo-Williams 2 Florence 2 Miami-Davis 1 Smith 2 New England-Dowling 2 McCourty 1 New York Jets-Revis 1 Cromartie 1 Baltimore-Smith 1 Webb 4 Cincinnati-Hall 1 Newman 1 Cleveland-Haden 1 Brown 3 Pittsburgh-Taylor 3 Brown 3 Houston-Joseph 1 Jackson 1 Indianapolis-Thomas 3 Powers 3 Jacksonville-Ross 1 Mathis 2 Tennessee-McCourty 6 Vernor 4 Denver-Bailey 1 Porter 2 Kansas City-Flowers 2 Routt 2 Oakland-Spencer 2 Bartell 2 San Diego-Jammer 1 Cason 1 Dallas-Carr 3 Claiborne 1 New York-Giants Webster 2 Thomas 2 Philadelphia-Asomugha 1 Rogers-Cromartie 1 Washington-Wilson 2 Hall 1 Chicago Jennings-2 Tillman 2 Detroit Houston-2 Berry UDFA Green Bay-Woodson 1 Williams UDFA Minnesota-Winfield 1 Cook 2 Atlanta-Robinson 1 Grimes UDFA Carolina-Gamble 1 Munnerlyn 7 New Orleans-Robinson 1 Greer UDFA Tampa Bay-Talib 1 Barber 3 Arizona-Peterson 1 Jefferson UDFA St. Louis-Finnegan 4 Fletcher 3 San Francisco-Rogers 1 Brown 5 Seattle Sherman-5 Trufant 1 27 were drafted in the first round (42%), and another 17 (26.5%) were drafted in the 2nd. That means that over 2/3 of the starting CBs in the league were drafted in the first 2 rounds. Not sure how it compares to other positions (I don't have THAT much time on my hands), but it looks like starting CBs mainly come from the top 2 rounds. Whether or not that changes your perception at all (or whether it should for that matter), is not for me to say. Just thought I'd present the info for those interested. Holy smokes, what a post! Great job! As Awwufelloff indicated, this should end all bitching. SHOULD, but it wont...
GG Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 It's very hard not to like the kid though. Doggonit, he should smile some more.
bills_fan Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 I was curious about this, so I did some research. Here are the 64 projected starting CBs in the NFL for the 2012 season, and the round they were drafted in: Buffalo-Williams 2 Florence 2 Miami-Davis 1 Smith 2 New England-Dowling 2 McCourty 1 New York Jets-Revis 1 Cromartie 1 Baltimore-Smith 1 Webb 4 Cincinnati-Hall 1 Newman 1 Cleveland-Haden 1 Brown 3 Pittsburgh-Taylor 3 Brown 3 Houston-Joseph 1 Jackson 1 Indianapolis-Thomas 3 Powers 3 Jacksonville-Ross 1 Mathis 2 Tennessee-McCourty 6 Vernor 4 Denver-Bailey 1 Porter 2 Kansas City-Flowers 2 Routt 2 Oakland-Spencer 2 Bartell 2 San Diego-Jammer 1 Cason 1 Dallas-Carr 3 Claiborne 1 New York-Giants Webster 2 Thomas 2 Philadelphia-Asomugha 1 Rogers-Cromartie 1 Washington-Wilson 2 Hall 1 Chicago Jennings-2 Tillman 2 Detroit Houston-2 Berry UDFA Green Bay-Woodson 1 Williams UDFA Minnesota-Winfield 1 Cook 2 Atlanta-Robinson 1 Grimes UDFA Carolina-Gamble 1 Munnerlyn 7 New Orleans-Robinson 1 Greer UDFA Tampa Bay-Talib 1 Barber 3 Arizona-Peterson 1 Jefferson UDFA St. Louis-Finnegan 4 Fletcher 3 San Francisco-Rogers 1 Brown 5 Seattle Sherman-5 Trufant 1 27 were drafted in the first round (42%), and another 17 (26.5%) were drafted in the 2nd. That means that over 2/3 of the starting CBs in the league were drafted in the first 2 rounds. Not sure how it compares to other positions (I don't have THAT much time on my hands), but it looks like starting CBs mainly come from the top 2 rounds. Whether or not that changes your perception at all (or whether it should for that matter), is not for me to say. Just thought I'd present the info for those interested. Awesome post man. Thanks for doing the work. From your work, I can glean that 60% of the starting CBs in the league were drafted after Round 1 (remember, I said I did not believe in 1st Rd secondary players, not 1st and 2nd). Backs up what I thought. Fair enough reply. I liked Ingram a lot too, but he was available and Nix passed on him, and I trust Nix's judgement as it has been an obvious priority of his from Day 1 to add to the DL. I would loved to have seen an LT as well, but neither of us can name anyone that was available at #10 yesterday that we liked. Reiff at #10 wouldve been a disaster, imo. This is a passing league, and the best passing offense in the NFL just happens to play in our division. Frankly, I love Glenn and think he will be a Marcus McNeil clone. Having McNeil for the next 7-8 years from #10 ovrall...I think any Bills fan should take that in a heartbeat. If we had taken Glenn, I would have been very happy (even considering he is still available). Never liked Reiff for LT. I trust Nix more than any GM since Polian so we will have to wait and see. For the record, I hated the Lil Donte and McLovin picks, both for their position and the player. I like Gilmore from what I have seen and think he could be a good CB, I just would not have used #10 overall on him.
GG Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 Awesome post man. Thanks for doing the work. From your work, I can glean that 60% of the starting CBs in the league were drafted after Round 1 (remember, I said I did not believe in 1st Rd secondary players, not 1st and 2nd). Backs up what I thought. Are you nuts? Other than QB, I think you would be hard pressed to find another position where 42% of starters are Round 1, 2/3 are round 1 & 2. That means throughout the history of the league, the guys who do this for a living, not just one football administration with whom you disagree, value CBs at the top of the draft. And because these guys value CBs that high, you're forced into the arms race to get your CBs early as the drop off in talent to later rounds is that big. You may roll the dice that every year you will stumble onto a Greer, but history will prove that you are more likely to get a Donovan and not Jabari.
Kent H Jr Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 This....defies belief. Figures. The one time he says something positive about the Bills...he is preempted by WGR extended draft coverage. Can't win for losing. OC, I'm with you, it defies belief, specially whne Colin goes even further than praising the Bills GM and predicts the Bills going to playoffs next year. About being preempted, You can rewind the interview at 12:15 PM ET in ESPN.com \Radio if you'd like.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 Are you nuts? Other than QB, I think you would be hard pressed to find another position where 42% of starters are Round 1, 2/3 are round 1 & 2. That means throughout the history of the league, the guys who do this for a living, not just one football administration with whom you disagree, value CBs at the top of the draft. And because these guys value CBs that high, you're forced into the arms race to get your CBs early as the drop off in talent to later rounds is that big. You may roll the dice that every year you will stumble onto a Greer, but history will prove that you are more likely to get a Donovan and not Jabari. CBs also have the second highest franchise tender. Hmmmm... It's kind of funny that Bill and others put so much stock in LTs and not much in CBs when the sole purpose of their affection for LT is so the LT can let the QB throw the ball downfield... Against CBs. So the most important position in the game (if discounting QB) is to allow pass to be caught, but not stopped.
thebandit27 Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 /Thread. Fair enough reply. I liked Ingram a lot too, but he was available and Nix passed on him, and I trust Nix's judgement as it has been an obvious priority of his from Day 1 to add to the DL. I would loved to have seen an LT as well, but neither of us can name anyone that was available at #10 yesterday that we liked. Reiff at #10 wouldve been a disaster, imo. This is a passing league, and the best passing offense in the NFL just happens to play in our division. Holy smokes, what a post! Great job! As Awwufelloff indicated, this should end all bitching. SHOULD, but it wont... Awesome post man. Thanks for doing the work. From your work, I can glean that 60% of the starting CBs in the league were drafted after Round 1 (remember, I said I did not believe in 1st Rd secondary players, not 1st and 2nd). Backs up what I thought. Thanks all. I had another quick break during the afternoon, so I decided to dig a bit deeper. Since the league is so pass-happy, I thought it might be worth looking into each team's 3rd CB as well, since they're on the field 60-70% of the time. Here's what I found (again, based on projections: Buffalo-Gilmore 1 Miami-Marshall 2 New England-Arrington UDFA New York Jets-Wilson 1 Baltimore-Williams 3 Cincinnati-Clements/Kirkpatrick (both 1's) Cleveland-Patterson UDFA Pittsburgh-Lewis 3 Houston-Harris 2 Indianapolis-Rucker 6 Jacksonville-Cox 3 Tennessee-Mouton 3 Denver-Vaughan UDFA Kansas City-Arenas 2 Oakland-Van Dyke 3 San Diego-Gilchrist 2 Dallas-Jenkins 1 New York Giants-Amukamara 1 Philadelphia-Marsh 3 Washington-Griffen 2 Chicago- Hayden 2 Detroit-Smith 2 Green Bay-Bush UDFA Minnesota-Bowman 3 Atlanta-Samuel 4 Carolina-Butler 2 New Orleans-Patrick 3 Tampa Bay-Wright 2 Arizona-Toler 4 St. Louis-Johnson 7 San Francisco-Culliver 3 Seattle-Browner UDFA Adding this up, we see that--of the nickel corners--5 of 32 were 1st rounders, and 9 were 2nd rounders. A total of 14 out of 32, which is slightly less than 50 percent. Adding it all together, if we assume that most teams play in the nickel most of the time, then there are 96 CBs that play most defensive snaps for their teams. Of the 96, 58 were drafted in the first two rounds (60.4%). So, it looks like the inclusion of the nickel corner changes the numbers, but not by much.
GG Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 CBs also have the second highest franchise tender. Hmmmm... It's kind of funny that Bill and others put so much stock in LTs and not much in CBs when the sole purpose of their affection for LT is so the LT can let the QB throw the ball downfield... Against CBs. So the most important position in the game (if discounting QB) is to allow pass to be caught, but not stopped. As I remarked, in most cases an OT screw up is a sack. A CB screw up is 6 points. Over the course of the season it adds up.
DrDawkinstein Posted April 27, 2012 Posted April 27, 2012 (edited) Frankly, I love Glenn and think he will be a Marcus McNeil clone. Having McNeil for the next 7-8 years from #10 ovrall...I think any Bills fan should take that in a heartbeat. If we had taken Glenn, I would have been very happy (even considering he is still available). Never liked Reiff for LT. I trust Nix more than any GM since Polian so we will have to wait and see. For the record, I hated the Lil Donte and McLovin picks, both for their position and the player. I like Gilmore from what I have seen and think he could be a good CB, I just would not have used #10 overall on him. Glad you threw in that last part because I was about to ask you what spot in the 1st round Glenn went at! So how will you feel if Glenn falls to us at #41? And we get "your" 1st round pick, along with a top tier player for our defense? Can we all just wait until the entire draft, and all 10 of our picks, play out? Or is that too much for Bills fans? Edited April 27, 2012 by DrDareustein
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