Message to Chan: RUN THE BALL!

[bowery4]

I agree with you John, with the two backs we have and the size of the line and Chan's love of putting it on Fitz (who I do think is good BTW) we totally passed to early and often and Hopeful made a lot of good points in this thread too. Chan said he wanted to run more after some of those games and the season, I want to buy it. I hope he changes and finds a way to truly put the ball in both of our backs hands this year. I want them on the field together too. We have more talent in our backfield than in our wideouts. That is how this issue should be decided, rely on the most talented playmakers. It is not that hard of a concept. One part of the game can open up the other (it really doesn't matter which). I think you need to use whatever is the stronger against your particular opposition.

 

I don't think Chan always did that and he definitively didn't adjust well when the talent got injured. There were games when we would go up by 14 and when the other team got it back to 7 and Chan went to pass, pass, pass. I do give them some credit they did finish 14th rated O in the league and it was much more exciting. It just could have been better.

[Gray Beard]

I couldn't agree more with the OP.

 

Let's also remember all those long, low percentage pass plays on 3rd and short. I've seen other teams do it (and usually fail) but that doesn't make it right. I also refuse to believe that Chan didn't know that Fitz was hurt, and calling long sideways passes in crucial situations was mind boggling. I know this board was full of people who were confused and upset at the time.

I have also been a broken record wondering why Chan doesn't use the fullback. Even though it is a passing league, the fullback as a change of pace is also starting to gain some popularity. We all know how good Corey McIntyre is, let's see him get some action!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I complained during numerous live game threads on this forum that the Bills were abandoning the run prematurely.

 

It was obvious that they were getting needlessly pass-happy.

 

This happened game after game AND during the period where it was obvious Fitz was injured (well at least it was obvious to some people) and when our O-linemen and wide receivers were dropping like flies.

 

Coach Gailey can try to explain it away all he wants but being pass-happy is a very legitimate criticism of his coaching last season.

[Kelly the Dog]

The Bills could run well because they threw all the time. Period. If we ran five more times a game, teams wouldn't be playing us to pass most every play and would have had a much easier time stopping our run.

[Simon]

Three things:

1) This has been a knock on Chan going all the way back to his days with the Stillers. Granted, these folks think anybody that throws the ball on 2nd down is a pass-happy wildman, but he has always shown a willingness to utilize an aggressive passing attack. I wouldn't expect that to change much.

2) Have you taken into account that he knew his defense couldn't stop anybody, much less slow them down. I imagine he figured he needed 30 points to win every week and wasn't going to get that by grinding people down on offense, winning the field position game and playing good defense.

3) The addition of Cordy Glenn is likely to create a subtle change in how the Bills call their offense; I wonder what, and how subtle, that change will be.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The Bills could run well because they threw all the time. Period. If we ran five more times a game, teams wouldn't be playing us to pass most every play and would have had a much easier time stopping our run.

I'm more of the Bill Parcells school… PROVE to us you can stop the run.

 

Bailing on the run prematurely just means you're getting a bit too cute.

 

Pound it and let the other team give you a convincing reason to stop pounding it.

 

It surely beats the 3 incompletions and out drill.

 

 

 

Three things:

1) This has been a knock on Chan going all the way back to his days with the Stillers. Granted, these folks think anybody that throws the ball on 2nd down is a pass-happy wildman, but he has always shown a willingness to utilize an aggressive passing attack. I wouldn't expect that to change much.

They must be glad to have gotten rid of Bruce Arians.

 

Arguably they haven't been playing "Steelers Football" in a long time.

 

And I bet people there are gleeful with the DeCastro and Adams selections.

 

Looks like a return to Steelers Football.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Can someone please explain how a better defense is going to improve Fitz's lazy mechanics, inaccuracy, horrible deep throws and poor decision making?

 

I'm not going to try, John, because I disagree fundamentally with your assessment of Fitz. More to the point, so do the Bills coaches and others around the league. So do the facts.

 

Riddle me this, according to you he's just an all-out bum of a QB without a single redeeming feature.

 

Yet he's at worst, in the middle-third of NFL QB this year. By yards and completion %, he's in the top 3rd. He's middle-of-the-pack for 40+ yd pass plays (14) - tied with Rivers and ahead of Flacco, Smith, Cutler, Freeman, Bradford, and Sanchez.

20+ yd pass plays? Again, middle-of-the-pack: tied with Dalton and ahead of Flacco, Smith, Cutler, Freeman, Bradford and Sanchez (I picked those 6 as QB of successful playoff teams or who were drafted high with high hopes). Just how does he manage this with "lazy mechanics, inaccuracy, horrible deep throws, and poor decision making"? (By the way, Brees and Eli Manning led the league with INTs last year, the point being that high INTs by themselves don't prove a QB has ineredicable poor decision making or inaccuracy.)

 

Please don't mistake me - I'm a Fitz fan yet I don't think he's an elite QB in the same class as Brady, Brees, Manning, etc. It's just that your descriptives seem to cross the line into frothing-at-the-mouth crusading. Fitz is a middle-of-the-NFL QB until he proves himself capable of sustaining better play for a full season, but he IS a quality middle-of-the-NFL QB, better than a number of QB who were drafted far higher with higher expectations, not a bum.

[Simon]

 

They must be glad to have gotten rid of Bruce Arians.

 

Arguably they haven't been playing "Steelers Football" in a long time.

 

And I bet people there are gleeful with the DeCastro and Adams selections.

 

Looks like a return to Steelers Football.

 

 

Haven't talked to anybody about their draft yet, but I have no doubt they're happy campers.

As for Arians, I'm stunned they weren't dredging rivers for him 3 years ago. It took less than a season for these folks to want him drawn and quartered

[John Cocktosten]

The Bills could run well because they threw all the time. Period. If we ran five more times a game, teams wouldn't be playing us to pass most every play and would have had a much easier time stopping our run.

 

Football is such a simple game.

 

 

Let me make this clear, I don't want the Bills to go to a pro style attack with 2 backs. We have the ability, because of Fred's pass pro and receiving skills, to run out of passing/spread sets. Hopefully CJ's pass pro will improve. Now that we have some depth on the Oline I would also like to see the Bills use Glenn/Sanders like the Saints Zach Strief in the past lining him up at TE and moving him around as an extra blocker.

 

The Bills are not going to win by featuring Fitz. They will win by featuring Freddy/CJ.

[Kelly the Dog]

Football is such a simple game.

 

 

Let me make this clear, I don't want the Bills to go to a pro style attack with 2 backs. We have the ability, because of Fred's pass pro and receiving skills, to run out of passing/spread sets. Hopefully CJ's pass pro will improve. Now that we have some depth on the Oline I would also like to see the Bills use Glenn/Sanders like the Saints Zach Strief in the past lining him up at TE and moving him around as an extra blocker.

 

The Bills are not going to win by featuring Fitz. They will win by featuring Freddy/CJ.

The Bills were winning when they were in their pass crazy offense, and then they could run Freddy and sometimes CJ when teams were trying to defend our pass crazy offense. Fred was getting a ton of passes that were the equivalent of run plays. It was the perfect mix.

 

When Fred went down and CJ was in, it was the same thing with the run, there were holes because teams were defending us to pass all the time the way they were before. We couldn't pass however, because our OL was hurt and couldn't protect as well, there was no pocket in the middle, our WRs were hurt so they werent getting open, our TE was hurt and our QB was hurting.

 

Granted, I wanted us to run a little more too. But that means maybe two more times a game. I knew we couldn't just run more and get the same production we were getting with the defense spread out.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Kelly the Dog

[Lurker]

A healthy O-line gives them the ability to run AND pass.

 

They became more one-dimensional after all the injuries and line shuffling forced Chan to go to the short passing game. Now that we've improved the line depth, I expect a more balanced gameplan, especially with an upgraded defense that will likely get more stops and give the ball back to the offense a few more times per game...

Edited April 29, 2012 by Lurker

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Football is such a simple game.

 

 

Let me make this clear, I don't want the Bills to go to a pro style attack with 2 backs. We have the ability, because of Fred's pass pro and receiving skills, to run out of passing/spread sets. Hopefully CJ's pass pro will improve. Now that we have some depth on the Oline I would also like to see the Bills use Glenn/Sanders like the Saints Zach Strief in the past lining him up at TE and moving him around as an extra blocker.

 

The Bills are not going to win by featuring Fitz. They will win by featuring Freddy/CJ.

 

I agree with this last, John, but not because I agree with your assessment of Fitz as having "lazy mechanics, inaccuracy, horrible deep throws and poor decision making"

 

It's just FJ and CJ are stars, potential league-leading players. And you win by letting your stars shine.

 

The key is Chan figuring out how to utilize them both to their best potential.

[John Cocktosten]

I'm not going to try, John, because I disagree fundamentally with your assessment of Fitz. More to the point, so do the Bills coaches and others around the league. So do the facts.

 

Riddle me this, according to you he's just an all-out bum of a QB without a single redeeming feature.

 

Yet he's at worst, in the middle-third of NFL QB this year. By yards and completion %, he's in the top 3rd. He's middle-of-the-pack for 40+ yd pass plays (14) - tied with Rivers and ahead of Flacco, Smith, Cutler, Freeman, Bradford, and Sanchez.

20+ yd pass plays? Again, middle-of-the-pack: tied with Dalton and ahead of Flacco, Smith, Cutler, Freeman, Bradford and Sanchez (I picked those 6 as QB of successful playoff teams or who were drafted high with high hopes). Just how does he manage this with "lazy mechanics, inaccuracy, horrible deep throws, and poor decision making"? (By the way, Brees and Eli Manning led the league with INTs last year, the point being that high INTs by themselves don't prove a QB has ineredicable poor decision making or inaccuracy.)

 

Please don't mistake me - I'm a Fitz fan yet I don't think he's an elite QB in the same class as Brady, Brees, Manning, etc. It's just that your descriptives seem to cross the line into frothing-at-the-mouth crusading. Fitz is a middle-of-the-NFL QB until he proves himself capable of sustaining better play for a full season, but he IS a quality middle-of-the-NFL QB, better than a number of QB who were drafted far higher with higher expectations, not a bum.

 

Before you start saying he was tied with all of those guys let's look at the type of pass play. Throwing deep and long pass plays can be different:

On throws over 20 yds FItz was 15-51 29%, 3tds,4ints.

Throws 10 or less? 67% 16tds 12ints.

How about his mid range throws? 46% 5tds and 7ints.

 

SO on passes that travel more than 10 yards Fitz is 66-165 for a whopping 39%.

 

So I'll restate my thoughts on Fitz's accuracy, if he attempts a pass over 10 years, he is horribly inaccurate. What does that mean? Safties can squat, more press coverage and a one-demensional game. All you have to do is watch the football games and watch Fitz routinely throw off of his back foot, not carry out his play-fakes and try to fit balls in to zones that aren't there. I like Fitz, he makes very quick decisions and is fearless. But if you think he doesn't have an accuracy problem then we might as well end this discussion. There is no frothing at the mouth here. He made it fun (at times) to watch the Bills again. But less Fitz and more Freddy/CJ is going to make it fun and win games. Fitz has yet to put this team on his back and win a game. Freddy did it, CJ did (once). I'm still waiting for Fitz to win.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I'm more of the Bill Parcells school… PROVE to us you can stop the run.

 

Bailing on the run prematurely just means you're getting a bit too cute.

 

Pound it and let the other team give you a convincing reason to stop pounding it.

 

It surely beats the 3 incompletions and out drill.

 

 

SJBF I agree with you. I do have to give credence to those who raised the point that last year, we may not have had the OL to pound it - that we passed to set up the run because we NEEDED to pass to set up the run.

I also agree that Chan did move away from the run too early in many games last year, esp. given that we were using a short passing game once the line injuries mounted up. I hope that will change this year.

 

Before you start saying he was tied with all of those guys let's look at the type of pass play. Throwing deep and long pass plays can be different:

On throws over 20 yds FItz was 15-51 29%, 3tds,4ints.

Throws 10 or less? 67% 16tds 12ints.

How about his mid range throws? 46% 5tds and 7ints.

 

SO on passes that travel more than 10 yards Fitz is 66-165 for a whopping 39%.

 

So I'll restate my thoughts on Fitz's accuracy, if he attempts a pass over 10 years, he is horribly inaccurate. What does that mean? Safties can squat, more press coverage and a one-demensional game. All you have to do is watch the football games and watch Fitz routinely throw off of his back foot, not carry out his play-fakes and try to fit balls in to zones that aren't there. I like Fitz, he makes very quick decisions and is fearless. But if you think he doesn't have an accuracy problem then we might as well end this discussion. There is no frothing at the mouth here. He made it fun (at times) to watch the Bills again. But less Fitz and more Freddy/CJ is going to make it fun and win games. Fitz has yet to put this team on his back and win a game. Freddy did it, CJ did (once). I'm still waiting for Fitz to win.

 

John, all I have to say is you're showing every evidence of being a fanatic here. I could point out that in general, QB are much less accurate with longer throws and ask if you've thought about breaking down Eli Manning and Brees in 2010 when they led the league in INTs. But there's really no point in trying to have a rational or reasoned discussion with a fanatic, so I'll stop.

[SoFFacet]

Chan did sometimes give up on the balanced attack too often last year. However, it is a mistake to believe that we had some sort of great running game that was being ignored. We absolutely could not run the ball unless the other team was cheating pass. We were the definition of a team that needed to pass to set up the run, and on days where Fitz just didn't have it, we couldn't do either.

 

It remains to be seen whether that will still be the case this year. However, the OL has the potential to be much better, and a good (and healthy) OL fixes a lot of our problems.

[John Cocktosten]

John, all I have to say is you're showing every evidence of being a fanatic here. I could point out that in general, QB are much less accurate with longer throws and ask if you've thought about breaking down Eli Manning and Brees in 2010 when they led the league in INTs. But there's really no point in trying to have a rational or reasoned discussion with a fanatic, so I'll stop.

 

Where am I being fanatical? These are facts. We all watch the games. His accuracy is bad when he has to throw the ball over 10 yards (39%) and 45% between 11-20. That is terrible and Those are facts. You are being the fan(atic) one here because your love for the guy is not letting you see the facts. Making those throws routinely makes the defense play back. Harder to press, can't squat safeties and keeps LBs on their heels. That's just how the game works.

 

Other QBs comp% between 11-20:

Grossman- 58%

Hasselback- 57%

Alex Smith- 54%

Traveris Jackson- 52%

Sanchez - 48%

Fitz- 45%

Cassel- 42%

Edited April 29, 2012 by John Cocktosten

[thewildrabbit]

The Bills could run well because they threw all the time. Period. If we ran five more times a game, teams wouldn't be playing us to pass most every play and would have had a much easier time stopping our run.

let me say the reason the 2011 Bills could run so well was because Gailey was utilizing a spread offense. Which makes the corners play away from the line by almost not allowing the opposing defense to stack the box. In a spread formation once the RB breaks free there are less defenders around him to make the tackle, hence the longer runs.

 

I can understand why Gailey doesn't want to go to a traditional 2 back set with a closed formation. First, the Bills couldn't make an inch trying to run the ball from a closed set on 3rd and short. Mostly because the Bills "elephant offense" lack the elephants, they simply didn't have the tight ends or the tackles to block well enough to push the pile IMO. Lets not forget that the O line still had some band-aids on it last year.

 

 

"Hopeful" put it very well with his reference to the 49ers the last two years. 2 years ago their QB sucked and they wanted to dump the QB because the team went 6-10 ! They then fired the HC midway thru the 2010 season.

 

Jim Harbaugh gets hired and builds a power run first team and suddenly that same scrub QB starts looking great. The reason, the 49ers went from a pass first team with 500 attempts passing-400 attempts rushing to a run first team in 2011 with 451 attempts passing -498 attempts rushing. It helps the QB so much when the defense is forced to play up to stop the run and leaves the middle of the field open for the TE's and slot WR to make big plays.

 

From 6-10 to 13-3 in only one year with mostly the exact same players, the only real change was in coaching and philosophy. That same thing could happen with the 2012 Buffalo Bills should Gailey rethink his philosophy... If not there is always Marty S!

 

 

 

EDIT: Just wanted to note that Jim Harbaugh came in on a strike shortened off season and as a new HC and still managed 13-3.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Fear the Beard

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Where am I being fanatical? These are facts.

 

"lazy mechanics, inaccuracy, horrible deep throws and poor decision making"

 

Those aren't facts, those are your opinions, expressed in hyperbole, and not susceptible to acknowledging any factual point someone else like myself might say.

In fact, any factual points that brought up are dismissed as:

 

You are being the fan(atic) one here because your love for the guy is not letting you see the facts.

 

Whatev's.

[thewildrabbit]

Where am I being fanatical? These are facts. We all watch the games. His accuracy is bad when he has to throw the ball over 10 yards (39%) and 45% between 11-20. That is terrible and Those are facts. You are being the fan(atic) one here because your love for the guy is not letting you see the facts. Making those throws routinely makes the defense play back. Harder to press, can't squat safeties and keeps LBs on their heels. That's just how the game works.

 

Other QBs comp% between 11-20:

Grossman- 58%

Hasselback- 57%

Alex Smith- 54%

Traveris Jackson- 52%

Sanchez - 48%

Fitz- 45%

Cassel- 42%

 

I tend to think this is mainly because Fitz tends to get the ball out of his hands usually in under 2 seconds or under, so his setup and footwork aren't always set properly. I also tend to think this is born out of survival . Lets face some fact here, go back and look at what Fitz had to deal with the first 1/2 of 2010. It was a constant jailbreak and he was continuously running for his life. That Jet game Fitz was the leading rusher because he had no where to go with the ball, but it tuck and run. Fitz started to finally have some semblance of an actual pocket to step up into the second half of 2010 and the first half of 2011.

 

Go back to the first half of 2011 and Fitz looked like he could have an all pro season, same thing with C Eric Wood and RB Fred Jackson. All three were having great seasons until Wood and Jackson ended up on IR by weeks 9 & 10. My take is that Fitz's poor stats are the result of Chan Gailey trying to win games by making Fitz carry the entire offense the second half of last year.

 

Build that O line, give Fitz some better receivers and more time in the pocket and I think his accuracy improves.

[Fan in San Diego]

This years OL is going to be huge and is going to be easy to run the ball. We should see a lot more of FJ and Spiller running out of the backfield.