Final thoughts

[JohnC]

We got a lot of bodies. The overall character is outstanding. The Bills did their homework on that front. An eagle scout for christmas sake. But with ten picks and a high position in each round, we got maybe one starter on opening day, and maybe two by the end of the year. No one who jumps out as a HOF type. Solid ST depth and a crowded Practice Squad. I know we had holes, but with that type of ammo I would have expected a more immediate impact on the starting lineup recent FA acquisitions factored in. SO I think that while we got talent up and down the roster, I do not see a great step forward. I like what hte Bengals did, great value and probably two to three starters to a Playoff team. The steelers are retooled. New England did well to address immediate holes and there weren't many. So I guess I feel we wasted the opportunity accelerate the rebuilding process. This draft has a traditional feel to it like many in the past where we will see mid and late rounders get replaced by next years mid and late rounders. So while I commend OBD for not taking a step back, I am not sure we moved up in the overall hierarchy. I would love to have seen a more judicious use of picks, some movement and the addition of true starters this year. Glenn may not start, Gilmore will struggle, all DB's do while they learn. Our WR is a huge question mark and probably a project. I guess I expected a bigger leap.

 

I know this will get ripped and I will get the wait three years response, but I am tired of waiting. I attended games at the Rockpile when I was in grade school so I have been drinking the Kool aid my whole life. I really thought that we would walk away from this weekend with more starters, on day 1 2012.

 

The mistake you are making in assessing this draft is viewing it in isolation. Assuming that this year's draft class proves to be productive (at this point no one can say that for sure) you have to consider the body of draft selections for a string of at least 3 year. I have some conderns with Nix's first draft but the last two drafts appear to give the team an infusion of good talent. Add in this year's free agent acquisitions then one should be able to fairly conclude that the Bills are moving in a positive direction.

 

It is interesting that you cite the Steelers as an example of the right way to run a franchise. They do it for the most part by simply drafting well. There is nothing glitzy about their draft approach. They don't pursue upper tier big named free agents. They re-stock their roster with solid drafts picks. They rarely maneuver around in the draft; they simply make quality picks when their turn comes up. The Steeler method is the same method that Nix is applying here.

 

One of the main reasons that the Bills have been mired in mediocrity for so long is that they have run their operation in an ad hoc, short term time frame manner. Being frustrated and impatient and reacting to those frustrations is a recipe for continued futility. How many times has the exasperated owner made changes to the front office and coaching staff? The only way to get on to a path of success is to establish a sound organization and consistently operate in competent manner.

 

When Nix took over the reigns of the football operation the organization and roster were in a shambles. There was never a quick fix to what ailed this dismal franchise. If you do things the right way things will eventually get turned around. In general, the organization is at the point of establishing a sound foundation. Now they are at a stage where they should be able to compete with most teams. Are they are championship caliber team? Absolutely not. But at least now there is some hope----compare that to where we were for the past generation? Even a downtrodded pessimist would have to acknowledge that the franchise is moving in the right direction.

Edited April 29, 2012 by JohnC

[Webster Guy]

We got a lot of bodies. The overall character is outstanding. The Bills did their homework on that front. An eagle scout for christmas sake. But with ten picks and a high position in each round, we got maybe one starter on opening day, and maybe two by the end of the year. No one who jumps out as a HOF type. Solid ST depth and a crowded Practice Squad. I know we had holes, but with that type of ammo I would have expected a more immediate impact on the starting lineup recent FA acquisitions factored in. SO I think that while we got talent up and down the roster, I do not see a great step forward. I like what hte Bengals did, great value and probably two to three starters to a Playoff team. The steelers are retooled. New England did well to address immediate holes and there weren't many. So I guess I feel we wasted the opportunity accelerate the rebuilding process. This draft has a traditional feel to it like many in the past where we will see mid and late rounders get replaced by next years mid and late rounders. So while I commend OBD for not taking a step back, I am not sure we moved up in the overall hierarchy. I would love to have seen a more judicious use of picks, some movement and the addition of true starters this year. Glenn may not start, Gilmore will struggle, all DB's do while they learn. Our WR is a huge question mark and probably a project. I guess I expected a bigger leap.

 

I know this will get ripped and I will get the wait three years response, but I am tired of waiting. I attended games at the Rockpile when I was in grade school so I have been drinking the Kool aid my whole life. I really thought that we would walk away from this weekend with more starters, on day 1 2012.

When you say New England did well to address needs and there weren't many, what exactly do you mean? They gave up over 400 yards per game on a defense ranked next to dead last in the league. They have no running game and the offensive line is average. They have many needs like any team, it's just that they have an amazing qb that helps mask some of their weaknesses. God I can't wait til that guy retires.

 

Any draft evaluation now is obviously a complete guess. The team that you think did the worst in the draft may have had the best draft of anyone when time tells the real story. In our case, we have a decent shot to have three guys that will be in our starting rotation this year in Glenn Graham and Gilmore (the REAL G3)

 

If one more rookie pans out, then it could be a great draft. Nobody knows until the games are played.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

don't know why the Bills would want to draft a Hall of Famer. those guys are old, and i'm pretty sure under NFL rules they're ineligible to be selected in the draft.

 

The winner!

[Bill from NYC]

I have some conderns with Nix's first draft but the last two drafts appear to give the team an infusion of good talent. Add in this year's free agent acquisitions then one should be able to fairly conclude that the Bills are moving in a positive direction.

 

Obviously, it's early to say how talented the players in this draft are.

 

And, the Bills followed their trend of taking a db or running back in round. Some are ready to acknowledge the dismal results of doing so, and are skeptical.

That said, I didn't hate the Gilmore pick as much as Spiller because they did as you said. One cannot make a case that the DL isn't MUCH better given the UFA signings. Plus, Dareus will have a full season under his belt, and KW will hopefully be healthy.

 

Looking back at 2010, the Bills went after the right positions. They were simply unable to find the right players. In 2012, they once again drafted players in positions of need. I have zero issues with this. I hope it works this time, and it certainly can.

 

Imo, if Glenn (and I admittedly would have chosen Martin), and any other 2 players can play at a high level, I can see us perhaps winning a wild card spot.

[Orton's Arm]

As to assumptions, CHIX thinks Hairston is their guy. I do not think there is enough data to say he is not. No OTA's, No Minicamps, injury etc. The point is then Glenn, a talent, no argument develops as a OL usually does and is rotated in. Immediate impact maybe, game changing don't know. 2 first rounders is a luxury, but we certainly could have leveraged some of our picks for an extra 2 or 3 and increase the probability that those guys play right away.

 

I think you are missing the point of my thread or I articulated it poorly, we got loads of talent, I guess I am impatient to see this team not only winning but contending with the top tier now.

During his tenure as GM, Marv generally used his early picks on "quick impact" positions. RBs, SSs, LBs, etc. Players who could come in and contribute right away, such as Whitner, Lynch, and Poz.

 

At first, that approach seemed good. The team Marv inherited was aging, and had gone 5-11 in its last year under TD. In Marv's first year he turned over most of the roster, made the Bills a lot younger, and improved the team's record to 7-9. But by using early picks on "quick impact" players at "quick impact" positions, he failed to build the foundation the Bills needed for long term success.

 

Compare that to Nix's recent draft. Obviously no one can know what his drafted players will do, so I'll talk about what they're expected to do if all goes according to plan.

• Gilmore: In time, he's expected to become the long term answer at #1 CB. CB is a premium position at which the Bills had a major long term need.
  
• Glenn: Has the potential to develop into a Pro Bowl LT. He has very long arms, and did more reps than any other top LT prospect in the draft (even Kalil). That's another premium position of need which was filled with a potential Pro Bowl player.
  
• Graham. A lot of times you'll see an offense with a go-to WR on one side and a pure speed guy on the other. The Super Bowl Bills were like this, with Reed as the go-to guy and Lofton as the deep burner. Moulds and Price were like that too during Bledsoe's one good year. TD felt that much of the offense's subsequent regression was due to the loss of Price. Graham is intended to be the Bills' deep burner: to fill the same role Lofton had, or Peerless Price had back in 2002, or Alvin Harper had with the Cowboys.
  
• Nigel Bradham. The Bills needed a starting LB. Bradham is expected to be good in coverage, fast, and a very hard hitter!
  
• Ron Brooks. The nickelback is on the field for more than half the snaps. Even assuming Gilmore works out, the Bills lacked a long term solution at nickelback. Brooks is intended to be that solution.

 

If all goes according to plan, the Bills just got four long term starters, including two Pro Bowl starters at premium positions. (I am counting Bradham and Brooks as half a starter each, on the theory that the #3 LB will be on the field about half the time, and the #3 CB will be on the field the other half.) I like this draft a lot more than Marv's drafts, even if it fails to produce the quick impact Marv's drafts created.

[Stan Fan]

So what players do you think we should have drafted keeping in mind that this does not like to give up picks to move up

 

Seems to me Buffalo did pretty good in the draft. Three offensive linemen, three linebackers, a strong leg kicker, a shut-down defensive back and a speedy wide receiver. At least two of those picks will or should be starters, our Number 1 defensive back and the lineman from Georgia, who surprisingly was still available in the second round. Reason the Bills fell apart last year after a great start, was lack of depth and experience to replace the starter's injured. It is still a very young team, but Nix just added a lot of depth to the squad. No, we didn't mine the draft like the St.Louis Rams did, but I don't see New England, New York's Jets or Miami's Dolphins doing much better than Buffalo did. I liked the draft picks, particularly now that we have Super Mario in Buffalo (and he likes the town), which is an enormous plus.

[DrDawkinstein]

I'm glad I read this thread on my iPad while sitting on the crapper. If only I could flush it away as well...

[Adam]

We got a lot of bodies. The overall character is outstanding. The Bills did their homework on that front. An eagle scout for christmas sake. But with ten picks and a high position in each round, we got maybe one starter on opening day, and maybe two by the end of the year. No one who jumps out as a HOF type. Solid ST depth and a crowded Practice Squad. I know we had holes, but with that type of ammo I would have expected a more immediate impact on the starting lineup recent FA acquisitions factored in. SO I think that while we got talent up and down the roster, I do not see a great step forward. I like what hte Bengals did, great value and probably two to three starters to a Playoff team. The steelers are retooled. New England did well to address immediate holes and there weren't many. So I guess I feel we wasted the opportunity accelerate the rebuilding process. This draft has a traditional feel to it like many in the past where we will see mid and late rounders get replaced by next years mid and late rounders. So while I commend OBD for not taking a step back, I am not sure we moved up in the overall hierarchy. I would love to have seen a more judicious use of picks, some movement and the addition of true starters this year. Glenn may not start, Gilmore will struggle, all DB's do while they learn. Our WR is a huge question mark and probably a project. I guess I expected a bigger leap.

 

I know this will get ripped and I will get the wait three years response, but I am tired of waiting. I attended games at the Rockpile when I was in grade school so I have been drinking the Kool aid my whole life. I really thought that we would walk away from this weekend with more starters, on day 1 2012.

I can see Sanders and Glenn both starting on offense and Gilmore starting on defense. It isn't about Day 1, 2012 anyways- it is about building a winner.

[JohnC]

Obviously, it's early to say how talented the players in this draft are.

 

And, the Bills followed their trend of taking a db or running back in round. Some are ready to acknowledge the dismal results of doing so, and are skeptical.

That said, I didn't hate the Gilmore pick as much as Spiller because they did as you said. One cannot make a case that the DL isn't MUCH better given the UFA signings. Plus, Dareus will have a full season under his belt, and KW will hopefully be healthy.

 

Looking back at 2010, the Bills went after the right positions. They were simply unable to find the right players. In 2012, they once again drafted players in positions of need. I have zero issues with this. I hope it works this time, and it certainly can.

 

Imo, if Glenn (and I admittedly would have chosen Martin), and any other 2 players can play at a high level, I can see us perhaps winning a wild card spot.

 

In one respect the Gilmore pick is similar to the Spiller pick: They selected a player very closely to where they were ranked. It would have been very interesting to see if Buddy would have taken Barron instead of Gilmore if he was on the board???? I'm very comfortable with the Gilmore pick.

 

I always felt that if Glenn or Martin were on the board that Nix would have taken Glenn. Nix and Gailey both have made statements that they have a preference for bigger, stronger and bulkier offensive linemen. After Pear's first season with the Bills they instructed him to get heavier and stronger. He did. They rewarded him with a new contract.

 

If I had any regrets about this draft it was over the possibility of taking Kirks Cousins in the fourth round. The Skins, inexplicably, took him so it was a moot point. I would be curious to learn if they would have taken him in that round?

 

We have been over the Spiller selection on numerous occasions. There is not much to add. But let me go on record that this year Spiller is going to be involved in a number of big plays. You will eventually, although very begrudgingly, come to understand why he was taken. The questionable picks in the Spiller draft year are Troup and Carrington, with more emphasis on Troup.

 

My basic point in my original post is that the Bills are now, under Nix, a credibly run operation. Prior to his installation this failed organization was aimlessly run. Ralph Wilson set this franchise back when he hired Levy. Then Brandon had a one year a short stint. The damage done by the befuddled Levy was incalculable. The rebuild job was never going to be done in a quick fashion. Not only did the roster have to be reshaped but so did the football operation. In general, I believe Nix is doing a good job.

Edited April 29, 2012 by JohnC

[3putt]

When you say New England did well to address needs and there weren't many, what exactly do you mean? They gave up over 400 yards per game on a defense ranked next to dead last in the league. They have no running game and the offensive line is average. They have many needs like any team, it's just that they have an amazing qb that helps mask some of their weaknesses. God I can't wait til that guy retires.

 

Any draft evaluation now is obviously a complete guess. The team that you think did the worst in the draft may have had the best draft of anyone when time tells the real story. In our case, we have a decent shot to have three guys that will be in our starting rotation this year in Glenn Graham and Gilmore (the REAL G3)

 

If one more rookie pans out, then it could be a great draft. Nobody knows until the games are played.

 

If I recall they were playing in the last game of the year. we did not not earn that chance. If you score like that yards is meaningless.

[3putt]

The mistake you are making in assessing this draft is viewing it in isolation. Assuming that this year's draft class proves to be productive (at this point no one can say that for sure) you have to consider the body of draft selections for a string of at least 3 year. I have some conderns with Nix's first draft but the last two drafts appear to give the team an infusion of good talent. Add in this year's free agent acquisitions then one should be able to fairly conclude that the Bills are moving in a positive direction.

 

It is interesting that you cite the Steelers as an example of the right way to run a franchise. They do it for the most part by simply drafting well. There is nothing glitzy about their draft approach. They don't pursue upper tier big named free agents. They re-stock their roster with solid drafts picks. They rarely maneuver around in the draft; they simply make quality picks when their turn comes up. The Steeler method is the same method that Nix is applying here.

 

One of the main reasons that the Bills have been mired in mediocrity for so long is that they have run their operation in an ad hoc, short term time frame manner. Being frustrated and impatient and reacting to those frustrations is a recipe for continued futility. How many times has the exasperated owner made changes to the front office and coaching staff? The only way to get on to a path of success is to establish a sound organization and consistently operate in competent manner.

 

When Nix took over the reigns of the football operation the organization and roster were in a shambles. There was never a quick fix to what ailed this dismal franchise. If you do things the right way things will eventually get turned around. In general, the organization is at the point of establishing a sound foundation. Now they are at a stage where they should be able to compete with most teams. Are they are championship caliber team? Absolutely not. But at least now there is some hope----compare that to where we were for the past generation? Even a downtrodded pessimist would have to acknowledge that the franchise is moving in the right direction.

 

Yes the Steelers do that. But having lived there and seen how the Ownership is or at least was intertwined in the operations, it was a more a situation of drafting Steeler type players. Because there FO did not change much over the years the same philosophy applied year to year. Buddy and co. is changing the organization in a similarly methodical manner. I feel that the organization is more stable but are we any closer to winning the division? With Brady still playing I say no. We did not add enough immediate impact to close the gap. Depth sure. eventual starters probably. Starters and upgrades over last year maybe. I did not buy into the "need" at LT. It was more of a desire on the part of the media. Fitz is not a pcoket passer even if he had all day to throw, he lacks arm strength and accuracy. The quick strike offense we run is as much due to his limitations as it is lack of time. So if we did not "need" a starter depth could have been added later. David, was available, Kendricks was there too. Yes we did well in FA but there are no guarantees there either. Anderson is a scheme player, he disappeared in Chicago when he wasn't in an obvious pass rush down.

[JohnC]

Yes the Steelers do that. But having lived there and seen how the Ownership is or at least was intertwined in the operations, it was a more a situation of drafting Steeler type players. Because there FO did not change much over the years the same philosophy applied year to year. Buddy and co. is changing the organization in a similarly methodical manner. I feel that the organization is more stable but are we any closer to winning the division? With Brady still playing I say no. We did not add enough immediate impact to close the gap. Depth sure. eventual starters probably. Starters and upgrades over last year maybe. I did not buy into the "need" at LT. It was more of a desire on the part of the media. Fitz is not a pcoket passer even if he had all day to throw, he lacks arm strength and accuracy. The quick strike offense we run is as much due to his limitations as it is lack of time. So if we did not "need" a starter depth could have been added later. David, was available, Kendricks was there too. Yes we did well in FA but there are no guarantees there either. Anderson is a scheme player, he disappeared in Chicago when he wasn't in an obvious pass rush down.

 

Did you expect every positional need to be addressed in one draft? It can't be done. If you look at last year's draft with Dareus, our free agent acquisitions in Mario W. and Anderson and this year's draft with Gilmore you have to acknowledge that the defense has been significantly upgraded.

 

If you analyze our draft and judge it by where a player was generally ranked and where we drafted a particular player then you would have to conclude that our front office did a good job. In my view no pick was an unreasonable pick; and no pick was a reach.

 

For the most part seriously contending teams (of which we are not at that level yet) have upper tier qbs. The Bills don't have that caliber of qb on its roster. Fitz is an average to below average starting qb. That's what we got. Finding an elite type of qb is what all teams aspire to have. But that is not an easy task to accomplish. Just because one's qb isn't at a premium level that doesn't mean that the organization shouldn't do everything it can do to improve the roster. That is what the front office is doing.

 

The Steelers are the Steerlers because of the caliber and wisdom of its ownership. The Bills are the Bills because of the caliber and level of wisdom of its ownership. If you have a solution to our ownership issue then let me know what it is?