Chan Gailey on OT

[DefenseWins]

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2012/04/25/quick-pass-game-reduce-ot-need/

[Kelly the Dog]

It's pretty much what I and others have been saying all along in different ways. Gailey designed the quick offense out of necessity. The OL couldn't hold the blocks long enough. It's not that he wants to get it out so quick, that's all he has. The best coaches not only put players in a position of strength to succeed but mask weaknesses. We need better pass blocking from the tackles. And if Fitz has more time to go downfield and the threat, it makes the short passing game all the more effective because the defense is playing back and looser.

[NoSaint]

It's pretty much what I and others have been saying all along in different ways. Gailey designed the quick offense out of necessity. The OL couldn't hold the blocks long enough. It's not that he wants to get it out so quick, that's all he has. The best coaches not only put players in a position of strength to succeed but mask weaknesses. We need better pass blocking from the tackles. And if Fitz has more time to go downfield and the threat, it makes the short passing game all the more effective because the defense is playing back and looser.

 

Honestly - how he's masked the line with the spread and quick underneath work has been great. It even makes the backs look better. Given the hogs up front I'd love to see what he would do. We really don't have a downfield game or any sense of power running yet - just the getting space ASAP, often dictated by the formation.

[OldTimer1960]

I am in the camp that the team's number 1 need is LT, but I just don't see one available that is a good bet to be a starter at LT (not RT or OG).

 

In my opinion, they could go defense as the pass rush added with Mario Williams and Mark Anderson did not fix everything.

 

Like many, I'd love for them to be able to trade down up to 7 picks and get an additional mid-round pick. However, I don't see that happening.

[BillsVet]

Honestly - how he's masked the line with the spread and quick underneath work has been great. It even makes the backs look better. Given the hogs up front I'd love to see what he would do. We really don't have a downfield game or any sense of power running yet - just the getting space ASAP, often dictated by the formation.

 

One has to ask how long will any team be able to do the same thing (short to medium passing) without a decent NFL defense stopping it? It's no surprise Buffalo averaged less than 17 points per game in their final 13 when they went 3-10.

 

The QB doesn't have more than an average arm, the OT's aren't much in pass pro, and the receivers are generally a collection of short to medium route guys. I said it in another post, but the allocation of picks and UFA dollars to the defense to switch schemes has neglected the offense.

Edited April 25, 2012 by BillsVet

[Kelly the Dog]

How long will any team be able to do the same thing (short to medium passing) a decent NFL defense stopping it? It's no surprise Buffalo averaged less than 17 points per game in their final 13 games when they went 3-10.

 

The QB doesn't have more than an average arm, the OT's aren't much in pass pro, and the receivers are generally a collection of short to medium route guys. I said it in another post, but the allocation of picks and UFA dollars to the defense to switch schemes has neglected the offense.

I truly believe it was the injuries and the defenses didnt really catch up with us as much as Fitz simply wasn't able to do what he did in the first 6-7 games. The WRs were not getting open after Jones got hurt. Nelson was not nearly as effective playing #2 as he was #3 or #4. Chandler got hurt so the middle of the field was not able to be exploited by Nelson and Chandler like it was when we were clicking. The OL collapsed after the THIRD injury not the first two. Stevie was hobbled and then Fitz was hurt and then Wood went out and Fitz could nit step up in the pocket because there was none, and then Freddy was hurt. We couldn't run the wildcat or the rest of the offense. And we collapsed.

 

That is what killed us and that is why the Bills didnt feel the need to put a lot of resources into the offense. All teams have injuries but we had them everywhere. When healthy, even without a great line, we have a ton or weapons. If we get a better LT and a threat at #2, we could and maybe should be in the top third of the league.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Kelly the Dog

[JohnC]

One has to ask how long will any team be able to do the same thing (short to medium passing) without a decent NFL defense stopping it? It's no surprise Buffalo averaged less than 17 points per game in their final 13 when they went 3-10.

 

The QB doesn't have more than an average arm, the OT's aren't much in pass pro, and the receivers are generally a collection of short to medium route guys. I said it in another post, but the allocation of picks and UFA dollars to the defense to switch schemes has neglected the offense.

 

When Nix took over the football operation the Bills were basically an expansion caliber type team. There was no way in which all the needs could be addressed in one or two seasons. If you factor in that the franchise developed a strategy of getting back to relevance by primarily relying on the draft then it was going to take at least three draft seasons before the Bills would be position to make a quantum leap.

 

You make a valid point that changing the defensive scheme from the 4-3 to the 3-4 and back to a 4-3 set back the team's timetable to get the defense turned around. If you look back and compare the situation to where it was when Nix took over to where it is now it would be fair to say that the franchise has been stabilized a put in a position where some critical needs have to be addressed as opposed to many needs needing to be addressed.

 

Overall, I'm pleased with the direction and stability that Nix and his staff have instituted. There is still a lot that has to be done but now there is a credible organizational process in place that is capable of fixing whatever that needs to be fixed.

[NewEra]

1335394268[/url]' post='2446084']

I truly believe it was the injuries and the defenses didnt really catch up with us as much as Fitz simply wasn't able to do what he did in the first 6-7 games. The WRs were not getting open after Jones got hurt. Nelson was not nearly as effective playing #2 as he was #3 or #4. Chandler got hurt so the middle of the field was not able to be exploited by Nelson and Chandler like it was when we were clicking. The OL collapsed after the THIRD injury not the first two. Stevie was hobbled and then Fitz was hurt and then Wood went out and Fitz could nit step up in the pocket because there was none, and then Freddy was hurt. We couldn't run the wildcat or the rest of the offense. And we collapsed.

 

That is what killed us and that is why the Bills didnt feel the need to put a lot of resources into the offense. All teams have injuries but we had them everywhere. When healthy, even without a great line, we have a ton or weapons. If we get a better LT and a threat at #2, we could and maybe should be in the top third of the league.

 

well, they tried to sign meachem, but didn't wanna overpay (thank god. He's a decent player, but I don't think he's worth 7 mill a year).

 

I agree that the main reason for the offensive stumbles were due to injuries. Losing bell then Hairston and wood, Freddy, jones, chandler and a hobbled Stevie were major contributors. I think we need another good WR to start opposite Stevie. While the offense was ok early with jones, I don't think he's the guy (as most of you agree). A Wr in rd 1-2 is ideal IMO. We've got 2 major holes and 2 holes that need patching. Wr and LB IMO are the major holes. I'm not a fan of Morrison and sheppard still has a lot to prove before he can be considered a solid start. The move to 4-3 hurts his production IMO. He's better off as a 3-4 ilb. We could use an upgrade at LT and cb, but the guys we have could could be enough. Hairston MIGHT end up being out LT of the future, so using a 1st rd pick on a LT is questionable. Hairston might be better than the guys available in rd 1. At cb, we have some young talent in Williams and Rogers, while McGee, Florence and mckelvin might be enough, with our improved pass rush, to get us into the playoffs. We'll likely need a CB to start opposite Williams next season, but our current talent isn't THAT bad. Floyd and David or kuechly and randle/sanu/Jeffery would be the ideal draft IMO. Trading down and pulling those picks would be too good to be true IMO.

[truth on hold]

Always though the quick release had something to do with fitz being inaccurate and weak on deep throws. That line wasnt so bad last year, IMO they get wayyyyyyy too muh blame for everything. We had a strong running game throughout the year with different starting RBs. If they can run block they can pass block some too

Edited April 25, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack

[Max997]

And yet there are people that just look at the numbers and say the Bills have one of the best lines in the league simply bc they didn't give up a lot of sacks

 

Numbers don't always tell the entire story

[NoSaint]

Always though the quick release had something to do with fitz being inaccurate and weak on deep throws. That line wasnt so bad last year, IMO they get wayyyyyyy too muh blame for everything. We had a strong running game throughout the year with different starting RBs. If they can run block they can pass block some too

 

I don't recall the line being able to line up in a standard formation and force a short yard conversion consistently. I do remember the run game success coming especially when the field was spread.

 

Also our backup was a top ten pick, so it's not like the different starter was a bum. A top ten back should put up good stats, even with a substandard line - as nix and chan sold the pick with.

[nucci]

One has to ask how long will any team be able to do the same thing (short to medium passing) without a decent NFL defense stopping it? It's no surprise Buffalo averaged less than 17 points per game in their final 13 when they went 3-10.

 

The QB doesn't have more than an average arm, the OT's aren't much in pass pro, and the receivers are generally a collection of short to medium route guys. I said it in another post, but the allocation of picks and UFA dollars to the defense to switch schemes has neglected the offense.

A better D plus getting back the injured players on O will help. Are you upset when it's sunny out and hope it rains? I understand the skepticism but if you can't be hopeful in the off-season what do you look forward to?

[atlbillsfan1975]

I do not remember Chan's offense in Pitt or Dallas having to depend on the quick passing game to move the ball.

i may be wrong but IMHO if the Bills had a better LT and the line stays mostly healthy, then Gailey can open up his entire playbook.

D Cords picked up on the Bills tendencies and were able to shut them down for the most part the second half of the year.

 

Chan did the best he could with what he had to work with. When the line was healthy he had a bigger array of plays to chose from.

 

This is why the Bills need to get a LT early this weekend

Edited April 26, 2012 by atlbillsfan1975

[truth on hold]

I don't recall the line being able to line up in a standard formation and force a short yard conversion consistently. I do remember the run game success coming especially when the field was spread.

 

Also our backup was a top ten pick, so it's not like the different starter was a bum. A top ten back should put up good stats, even with a substandard line - as nix and chan sold the pick with.

I do recall them running it effectively in those situations. You have relative stats to prove otherwise ? And if so that's primarily on the center from an oline perspective,, so you saying wood sucks too? Or could it have been defenses lack of fear of arm strength for sideline outs, allowing them to stack the box completely?

As for spiller the guy had proven nothing and was being labelled a bust by many almost 2 seasons into his nfl career. Doesn't matter where you're drafted.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack

[thewildrabbit]

When Nix took over the football operation the Bills were basically an expansion caliber type team. There was no way in which all the needs could be addressed in one or two seasons. If you factor in that the franchise developed a strategy of getting back to relevance by primarily relying on the draft then it was going to take at least three draft seasons before the Bills would be position to make a quantum leap.

 

You make a valid point that changing the defensive scheme from the 4-3 to the 3-4 and back to a 4-3 set back the team's timetable to get the defense turned around. If you look back and compare the situation to where it was when Nix took over to where it is now it would be fair to say that the franchise has been stabilized a put in a position where some critical needs have to be addressed as opposed to many needs needing to be addressed.

 

Overall, I'm pleased with the direction and stability that Nix and his staff have instituted. There is still a lot that has to be done but now there is a credible organizational process in place that is capable of fixing whatever that needs to be fixed.

I've been reading excuses like this for 2 years now, and its complete BS. The core starters on the Bills 2010-2011 years team are almost the exact same starters Jauron had. QB-RB-WR-G-C were all on the team from the Jauron era.

 

Nix didn't stabilize anything, he scrood the pooch and then made up for it with band-aids all over the team. In 2010 the team was desperate for a RT and instead of drafting an OT, they drafted Spiller who has been a backup RB for 2 years now. Nix brought in RT Cornell Green for 2 mil. Green was cut after a few weeks of stinking so bad at RT it was laughable. Then Nix needed to pull guys off the street to help at RT & G. This team still has loads of band-aids all over it.

 

The reason why the Bills went 4-12 in 2010 were all the rookie assistant coaches Gailey hired from his days at GT, yea they were college coaches. Plus the failure to solidify that O line RT-G-C in the draft of free agency. Starting center Geoff Hangartner played with a bad back all 2010. Gailey started Trent Edwards remember? Gailey was exceedingly lucky he had a decent backup QB in Ryan Fitzpatrick. IMO it was Fitz's play that made Gailey look like a genius. I think it was more of Fitz reading the defense, setting protections and finding the open WR and getting the football out in under 2 seconds more then Gailey setting up anything.

 

 

I think most fans give this GM and HC way to much credit. Marcel Darius fell to them at #3. Lots of defensive players drafted the last two years and still the Bills fielded a bad defense in 2011. This year will be the make or break year. If they fail to build that line properly again this year. I can almost guarantee that short passing game with one decent WR isn't going to win many games. The Bills had a top defense in 2002 and went nowhere because of a bad offense. Watching Gailey calling pass play after pass play after week 9 tells me he has no plan B.

 

2 more days, we shall see.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

And yet there are people that just look at the numbers and say the Bills have one of the best lines in the league simply bc they didn't give up a lot of sacks

 

Just like there are people who look at Fitz' numbers through the first half of the season and know he's really inaccurate and weak and the numbers the 2nd half of the season reflect who he really is (the decimated OL and WR corp and his broken ribs don't matter. Real QB overcome these things).

 

Numbers don't always tell the entire story

 

Indeed.

[Mr. WEO]

And yet there are people that just look at the numbers and say the Bills have one of the best lines in the league simply bc they didn't give up a lot of sacks

 

Numbers don't always tell the entire story

 

Also fewest QB hits and QB pressures....

 

But anyway, the notion that Nix and Chan had to "start from scratch" was never true and this has been pointed out repeatedly by others here. It's many of the same guys playing in 2011 as in 2009. In his first 2 seasons, Buddy brought Dareus, Barnett and a handful of rookies that, when starters were injured, played OK in their places. We will see what happens tonight. But a trade up for Khalil or picking a safety at 10 will tell us that Buddy is going to need more than another year to prove he's a top GM.

[BillsVet]

I truly believe it was the injuries and the defenses didnt really catch up with us as much as Fitz simply wasn't able to do what he did in the first 6-7 games. The WRs were not getting open after Jones got hurt. Nelson was not nearly as effective playing #2 as he was #3 or #4. Chandler got hurt so the middle of the field was not able to be exploited by Nelson and Chandler like it was when we were clicking. The OL collapsed after the THIRD injury not the first two. Stevie was hobbled and then Fitz was hurt and then Wood went out and Fitz could nit step up in the pocket because there was none, and then Freddy was hurt. We couldn't run the wildcat or the rest of the offense. And we collapsed.

 

That is what killed us and that is why the Bills didnt feel the need to put a lot of resources into the offense. All teams have injuries but we had them everywhere. When healthy, even without a great line, we have a ton or weapons. If we get a better LT and a threat at #2, we could and maybe should be in the top third of the league.

 

The problem is, it's injuries every year, Levy, Jauron, Nix, Gailey, it doesn't matter. Are you going to say teams aren't planning for that, especially at RB and WR? The Bills backup RB was a former first rounder who should be expected to carry the load. Their contingency plan at WR was laughable at best, featuring options that shouldn't be used until all else fails. I'm referring to Brad Smith, but also to Derek Hagan, Donald Jones, and David Nelson. None of those guys were even drafted by the Bills. The TE's? This team is in the stone age with respect to the position, and they way they've built that is absurd. None of them are going to run past a LB and make a catch down-field, yet most NFL teams are looking for that type.

 

The team did not adequately plan for a backup interior OL who could snap the ball, necessitating Levitre become a nomad on the OL when Wood went down. Their OT depth was paltry,with a rookie bad bodied rookie being their swing tackle knowing full well Bell was an injury waiting to happen. And despite being a 30 front team in 10-11, they didn't use one single draft pick on a pass rushing LB in the first few rounds.

 

I get it that people, by their very nature, create excuses when everything doesn't work out. The 5-2 start was a mirage and reality came down in mid-season. And I'll give credit where credit is due with the signings of Mario Williams and Mark Anderson, but understand those moves were essential with the previous defense Nix championed going away.

 

I've been reading excuses like this for 2 years now, and its complete BS. The core starters on the Bills 2010-2011 years team are almost the exact same starters Jauron had. QB-RB-WR-G-C were all on the team from the Jauron era.

 

Nix didn't stabilize anything, he scrood the pooch and then made up for it with band-aids all over the team. In 2010 the team was desperate for a RT and instead of drafting an OT, they drafted Spiller who has been a backup RB for 2 years now. Nix brought in RT Cornell Green for 2 mil. Green was cut after a few weeks of stinking so bad at RT it was laughable. Then Nix needed to pull guys off the street to help at RT & G. This team still has loads of band-aids all over it.

 

The reason why the Bills went 4-12 in 2010 were all the rookie assistant coaches Gailey hired from his days at GT, yea they were college coaches. Plus the failure to solidify that O line RT-G-C in the draft of free agency. Starting center Geoff Hangartner played with a bad back all 2010. Gailey started Trent Edwards remember? Gailey was exceedingly lucky he had a decent backup QB in Ryan Fitzpatrick. IMO it was Fitz's play that made Gailey look like a genius. I think it was more of Fitz reading the defense, setting protections and finding the open WR and getting the football out in under 2 seconds more then Gailey setting up anything.

 

I think most fans give this GM and HC way to much credit. Marcel Darius fell to them at #3. Lots of defensive players drafted the last two years and still the Bills fielded a bad defense in 2011. This year will be the make or break year. If they fail to build that line properly again this year. I can almost guarantee that short passing game with one decent WR isn't going to win many games. The Bills had a top defense in 2002 and went nowhere because of a bad offense. Watching Gailey calling pass play after pass play after week 9 tells me he has no plan B.

 

2 more days, we shall see.

 

Outstanding post.

[JohnC]

I've been reading excuses like this for 2 years now, and its complete BS. The core starters on the Bills 2010-2011 years team are almost the exact same starters Jauron had. QB-RB-WR-G-C were all on the team from the Jauron era.

 

Nix didn't stabilize anything, he scrood the pooch and then made up for it with band-aids all over the team. In 2010 the team was desperate for a RT and instead of drafting an OT, they drafted Spiller who has been a backup RB for 2 years now. Nix brought in RT Cornell Green for 2 mil. Green was cut after a few weeks of stinking so bad at RT it was laughable. Then Nix needed to pull guys off the street to help at RT & G. This team still has loads of band-aids all over it.

 

The reason why the Bills went 4-12 in 2010 were all the rookie assistant coaches Gailey hired from his days at GT, yea they were college coaches. Plus the failure to solidify that O line RT-G-C in the draft of free agency. Starting center Geoff Hangartner played with a bad back all 2010. Gailey started Trent Edwards remember? Gailey was exceedingly lucky he had a decent backup QB in Ryan Fitzpatrick. IMO it was Fitz's play that made Gailey look like a genius. I think it was more of Fitz reading the defense, setting protections and finding the open WR and getting the football out in under 2 seconds more then Gailey setting up anything.

 

 

I think most fans give this GM and HC way to much credit. Marcel Darius fell to them at #3. Lots of defensive players drafted the last two years and still the Bills fielded a bad defense in 2011. This year will be the make or break year. If they fail to build that line properly again this year. I can almost guarantee that short passing game with one decent WR isn't going to win many games. The Bills had a top defense in 2002 and went nowhere because of a bad offense. Watching Gailey calling pass play after pass play after week 9 tells me he has no plan B.

 

2 more days, we shall see.

 

When Nix took over he not only had the callenge of remaking the roster he inheritied but he also needed to first rebuild the mediocre staff. Whaley was hired, Modrak was dispatched and a new head of scouting, Cook, was brought in. The football organization was in shambles when he was hired. There was never going to be a quick fix to what ailed this dismal franchise.

 

You and others (especially NY Bill) continue to be obsessed with the Spiller pick. Many preferred the selection of RT Bulaga to him. What you are recommending is that in Nix's first draft he should have taken a player ranked 15-20 compared taking a player ranked in the top 10. That approach of reaching for needs is a certain recipe for failure. When Spiller becomes the impact player that he is capable of then the Spiller complaints will be mercifully silenced.

 

Is Nix a genius and magic man that can immediately turn a generationally bad organization into an instant championship juggernaught? Of course not. Let's not get absurd. Buddy Nix is good football person who is experienced enough to understand how to build a competitive team. He has turned around a dysfucntional and chaotic organization into a more normal and conventional functioning organization. If you factor in the caliber of ownership and his finance people he has to work with you would be much more appreciative of the job he has done.

 

All organizations make a lot of personnel moves from the draft and free agency market. Not all are going to work out well. It is the nature of the endeavor. But if one is fair minded and takes an overview of what Nix has done from the beginning to the present one would have to say that he has done a good job.

[Cash]

You and others (especially NY Bill) continue to be obsessed with the Spiller pick. Many preferred the selection of RT Bulaga to him. What you are recommending is that in Nix's first draft he should have taken a player ranked 15-20 compared taking a player ranked in the top 10. That approach of reaching for needs is a certain recipe for failure. When Spiller becomes the impact player that he is capable of then the Spiller complaints will be mercifully silenced.

The bigger issue is that he shouldn't have had Spiller ranked so high in the first place. He thought he was drafting Chris Johnson, and he was wrong about that. And yes, it was possible to see that at the time.