John from Riverside Posted April 26, 2012 Posted April 26, 2012 Mike....I cant beleive you went there....but its true this year!
HornyToad Posted April 26, 2012 Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) We don't need him -------------------------------------------------------------------- Let me ask you this, do we need Merriman and Kelsay? Who would you rather have if given the choice. I'm not arguing with you, just would like your honest opinion. To tell you the truth if we don't get Umenyiora I would still like to dump Kelsay/Merriman and pick up a young Defensive lineman in the draft. Osi is still under contract for one more year. I don't think he will get a big contract after that because of his age. He would have to have a monster year, like over 12 sacks for someone to give him big money. You could always let him go if he's not reasonable. Edited April 26, 2012 by HornyToad
Fan in Chicago Posted April 26, 2012 Posted April 26, 2012 How would Osi Umenyiora look on the new Bills defensive line? WOW! Do you think maybe he can bring some of the Giants pass rushing philosophy to Buffalo? How does the cap work if you release a player or trade him? Does that player's salary come off the cap amount for your team? Color me unimpressed with him. In the few Giants games I have seen, he has not looked strong or dominant. JPP - now he is a player and a mighty fine one at that. Osi U may not garner much more than a 5th rounder and a 4th would be a steal. But, ofcourse, that is just IMHO. Goes without saying, I believe he will not be an upgrade for the Bills.
HornyToad Posted April 26, 2012 Posted April 26, 2012 Keep in mind that we're going to want to resign Levitre, Byrd and Wood. That gets increasingly difficult the closer we are to the cap. NO problem, we dump Kelsay and Merriman to free up the money to pay Osi. Then you still can sign Levitre, Byrd and Wood. Just dump some of the useless garbage to free up money to keep the good guys. You have to use your imagination and figure ways to free up money.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 26, 2012 Posted April 26, 2012 Osi is still under contract for one more year. I don't think he will get a big contract after that because of his age. He would have to have a monster year, like over 12 sacks for someone to give him big money. You could always let him go if he's not reasonable. So we trade a 3rd rounder for a 30-year old pass rusher and if he's unreasonable in his contract demands we cut him after one season? No. The way it would have to work in a trade, is that you would have to attain cost certainty before you made the trade. Even though the player is saying he'll play out the last year of his contract, you cannot give up a draft pick for him if you don't know if he'll re-sign with you. It would be irresponsible to trade for him without agreeing to an extension with him first.
NoSaint Posted April 26, 2012 Posted April 26, 2012 So we trade a 3rd rounder for a 30-year old pass rusher and if he's unreasonable in his contract demands we cut him after one season? No. The way it would have to work in a trade, is that you would have to attain cost certainty before you made the trade. Even though the player is saying he'll play out the last year of his contract, you cannot give up a draft pick for him if you don't know if he'll re-sign with you. It would be irresponsible to trade for him without agreeing to an extension with him first. Perhaps I undervalue the pick, but in the third, or later rounds, you'd be lucky to get one real season of high quality play. I know we aren't contenders but we MUST break this playoff streak. In the long run, I think an osi trade easily helps more in that than an average third, even without resigning. Which he still may do. Thirds are good picks, and I wouldn't make a habit of this practice but for a DE with his ball skills..... I would pull the trigger.
Malazan Posted April 26, 2012 Posted April 26, 2012 Man, fans are always so excited to take other teams problems off their hands.
HornyToad Posted April 26, 2012 Posted April 26, 2012 Perhaps I undervalue the pick, but in the third, or later rounds, you'd be lucky to get one real season of high quality play. I know we aren't contenders but we MUST break this playoff streak. In the long run, I think an osi trade easily helps more in that than an average third, even without resigning. Which he still may do. Thirds are good picks, and I wouldn't make a habit of this practice but for a DE with his ball skills..... I would pull the trigger. Yeah but that isn't even the best part. The best part is then maybe the Bills would get rid of Kelsay. He's an overpaid useless slug. I'd be happy if they dump him even if we don't get Osi.
NoSaint Posted April 26, 2012 Posted April 26, 2012 Man, fans are always so excited to take other teams problems off their hands. Typically I try to avoid these situations but he creates turnovers. Consistently.
Fan in Chicago Posted April 26, 2012 Posted April 26, 2012 Typically I try to avoid these situations but he creates turnovers. Consistently. Perhaps I havent watched enough Giants games. But to me he looks too inconsistent to spend anything more than a 4 th at best. Also, does anyone know why the Giants are attempting to get rid of him? Too many options or agreement with my opinion? I am.not asking a smart a$$ question. Truly want to know
NoSaint Posted April 26, 2012 Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) Perhaps I havent watched enough Giants games. But to me he looks too inconsistent to spend anything more than a 4 th at best. Also, does anyone know why the Giants are attempting to get rid of him? Too many options or agreement with my opinion? I am.not asking a smart a$$ question. Truly want to know to debate a 3rd vs 4th - i dont know. i wont quibble over a single round honestly. a 4th is obviously better value, and probably closer to what he will go for if traded. theyve been at war over a new deal for years. i dont know that the giants are trying to lose him as much as he is frustrated and wants to walk. he signed a deal he probably shouldnt have -a long deal in 2005(?) for like 6m per, and is getting to the point where he is grossly underpaid. He has put up 50+ sacks and 25+ FF in the last 6 years, despite missing a handful of games on 2 occasions. i know stats arent always a great indicator, but some of what he has done - especially in terms of FF - is game changing. he doesnt just get to the qb, he takes the ball away when he does get there. another perk would be he doesnt have to be the cornerstone guy here either (much like in ny) - he would be constantly fresh, and offenses wouldnt be able to 100% key on him. i think he would be HIGHLY productive in our defense, if it looks anything like i expect. for a midround pick, i dont think it would be mortgaging the future even if he does walk. which he may not. Edited April 26, 2012 by NoSaint
filthymcnasty08 Posted April 26, 2012 Posted April 26, 2012 Perhaps I havent watched enough Giants games. But to me he looks too inconsistent to spend anything more than a 4 th at best. Also, does anyone know why the Giants are attempting to get rid of him? Too many options or agreement with my opinion? I am.not asking a smart a$$ question. Truly want to know They are attempting to keep him (or have attempted). He went through a diva style holdout last summer before coming back and getting injured. He appears to be ready to do it again and they dont want the negativity. They love his on field production (I live in NYC and see all the games - when his game is on, he wreaks havoc) but have a threshold for diva stuff/holdouts and demands for money. They would structure something reasonable to keep him in blue and on a contender. He has two rings and wants a big last hurrah payday. GMen have too many other ppl to pay next year - JPP/Cruz.
stevestojan Posted April 26, 2012 Posted April 26, 2012 What happens to Kelsay then? He gets a Jersey that fits
K-9 Posted April 26, 2012 Posted April 26, 2012 I don't know. I mean no disrespect, but 'Umenyora' sounds too much like a prescription medicine for bladder-related conditions. Who 'leaked' the idea that he might be available anyway? GO BILLS!!!
NoSaint Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 So we trade a 3rd rounder for a 30-year old pass rusher and if he's unreasonable in his contract demands we cut him after one season? No. The way it would have to work in a trade, is that you would have to attain cost certainty before you made the trade. Even though the player is saying he'll play out the last year of his contract, you cannot give up a draft pick for him if you don't know if he'll re-sign with you. It would be irresponsible to trade for him without agreeing to an extension with him first. Now that we have put a name instead of a mystery pick, what would you think?
KD in CA Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 Now that we have put a name instead of a mystery pick, what would you think? I think I still don't want the Bills paying him the $8-$10MM a year he wants. And no matter what he says, he's not going to be happy playing without a long-term contract. If he was, he'd stay in NY.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 28, 2012 Posted April 28, 2012 Now that we have put a name instead of a mystery pick, what would you think? I still haven't seen Graham play so I can't say. I'll say that the Bills still have to attempt to re-sign Levitre, Wood, and Byrd, not to mention Freddy. I don't see the wisdom of trading for an aging and expensive pass rusher when we have 2 good outside pass rushers, two good inside pass rushers, and another 1-2 guys who will be good rotational pass rushers. If we were talking about a different player at a different position than Osi, I might consider it.
Malazan Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/7872684/osi-umenyiora-scoffs-new-york-giants-contract-offers yeahhh.....NO
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