Wisconsin recall election

[3rdnlng]

So you admit that there's fraud on both sides, yet don't think we should have voter ID?

 

 

I want to make sure that those damn repubs don't try to steal the election. I'm all for voter I.D.

[Wisconsin Bills Fan]

I think what you wrote is completely defensible. I also find the other side to be completely defensible, although I tend to agree with you.

 

And, strictly speaking, yes, you do want to suppress voter turnout. By making it more difficult for people to vote, you are for suppressing voter turnout. And THAT is why the other side has any sort of case at all. If you're seeking to limit voter turnout, in any way, then there should be a darn good reason to do so (so goes the argument against).

 

What if I lose my card? What if I'm mugged on the way to the voting booths? What if my house burns down two days before the election? What if...? In those instances, I would be denied my right to vote.

 

I fully respect your rejection of the premise of 'since there isn't reported voter fraud, there isn't voter fraud'. I would disagree with a 'well, that settles it, then. We need voter id!' conclusion based on something that is 'absence of evidence'. I wouldn't spend two seconds of energy on this issue if it was me 'in power'. I just don't see where this is any significant problem at all.

 

I guess only Democrats could possibly lose their ID, get mugged, or have their house burn down. For crying out loud, if you can't figure out how to obtain a FREE ID, you might be too stupid to vote. I would like to run a little experiment offering some $ or a Walmart gift card for those who get their free ID. I bet they wouldn't struggle to get their butt's to a location if a handout was given.

[Doc]

I guess only Democrats could possibly lose their ID, get mugged, or have their house burn down. For crying out loud, if you can't figure out how to obtain a FREE ID, you might be too stupid to vote. I would like to run a little experiment offering some $ or a Walmart gift card for those who get their free ID. I bet they wouldn't struggle to get their butt's to a location if a handout was given.

Exactly. Simply put, there are no excuses anyone can make for not being able to obtain an ID if it's free. The previous argument that it costs money is gone. They obviously have time to get one. And if they can get to the polling stations, they can get to the ID place. Laziness isn't a viable excuse.

[ExiledInIllinois]

So you admit that there's fraud on both sides, yet don't think we should have voter ID?

 

I am torn on the issue.

 

No voter ID + Yes to absentee ballots

 

or:

 

Yes to voter ID + No to absentee ballots

 

 

 

Voter ID does supress ballots cast. Anyway... Usually the poor underclass are in the shadows of society... For whatever reason, they may not want to to be associated with a name. Why can't it be one person, one vote? In person? Unfortunately for the people on the right... They are gonna claim foul... That multiple votes are being cast. What about fingerprint associated with no name? Tech is there to assure that nobody votes twice. Same with absentee... Yet, that may not work since the underclass may already be in trouble with the law and will be fearful of getting caught. Destroy the finger record after the vote? Tie the print into the whole voting system, encrypt it... There is gotta be a way to ensure one vote, one person.

 

Both sides play to the base and how they can "game the system."

[Nanker]

I am torn on the issue.

 

No voter ID + Yes to absentee ballots

 

or:

 

Yes to voter ID + No to absentee ballots

 

 

 

Voter ID does supress ballots cast. Anyway... Usually the poor underclass are in the shadows of society... For whatever reason, they may not want to to be associated with a name. Why can't it be one person, one vote? In person? Unfortunately for the people on the right... They are gonna claim foul... That multiple votes are being cast. What about fingerprint associated with no name? Tech is there to assure that nobody votes twice. Same with absentee... Yet, that may not work since the underclass may already be in trouble with the law and will be fearful of getting caught. Destroy the finger record after the vote? Tie the print into the whole voting system, encrypt it... There is gotta be a way to ensure one vote, one person.

 

Both sides play to the base and how they can "game the system."

 

What BS. If Republicans typically have a greater share of absentee votes* its probably because they're better heeled and travel - or are living and/or working abroad than out-of-work workers. That, and they generally get more military votes because they're perceived as more friendly to the needs of our troops. So yes. Let's disenfranchise the military serving and fighting overseas so Ma and Pa Kettle can cling to their government cheese and obscurity and vote seven times each. That's fair.

 

Let everybody vote - once each election. Once and only once. That's the issue.

 

*Except in South Florida where the snow birds from Queens have the right to vote there in person and by absentee ballot back in NY. It works both ways.

[3rdnlng]

The DOJ's attempt to promulgate voter fraud:

 

http://news.investors.com/article/613434/201206011853/justice-department-promotes-voter-fraud-in-florida.htm

 

 

"Fixing Elections: Washington has ordered Florida to end its effort to remove ineligible voters from the state's voter rolls. This is breathtaking. It couldn't be clearer that the government is actively promoting voter fraud.

 

aclgsSomehow, the DOJ has determined that purging illegal voters — felons, noncitizens, the deceased — from the rolls is a violation of the 1965 Voting Rights Act as well as the 1993 National Voter Registration Act. According to the Miami Herald, the department's lead civil rights attorney, T. Christian Herren Jr., sent the state "a detailed two-page letter" on Thursday demanding that Florida's elections division shut down its pursuit.

 

A key passage in the Herald's story says that those "most likely to face being purged from the rolls" are "independent voters and Democrats."

 

If it were Republicans, which the Herald says are the "least likely" group to be scrutinized, Attorney General Eric Holder's highly politicized Justice Department would be happy to let the purging continue."

Edited June 3, 2012 by 3rdnlng

[Doc]

The DOJ's attempt to promulgate voter fraud:

 

http://news.investors.com/article/613434/201206011853/justice-department-promotes-voter-fraud-in-florida.htm

 

 

"Fixing Elections: Washington has ordered Florida to end its effort to remove ineligible voters from the state's voter rolls. This is breathtaking. It couldn't be clearer that the government is actively promoting voter fraud.

 

aclgsSomehow, the DOJ has determined that purging illegal voters — felons, noncitizens, the deceased — from the rolls is a violation of the 1965 Voting Rights Act as well as the 1993 National Voter Registration Act. According to the Miami Herald, the department's lead civil rights attorney, T. Christian Herren Jr., sent the state "a detailed two-page letter" on Thursday demanding that Florida's elections division shut down its pursuit.

 

A key passage in the Herald's story says that those "most likely to face being purged from the rolls" are "independent voters and Democrats."

 

If it were Republicans, which the Herald says are the "least likely" group to be scrutinized, Attorney General Eric Holder's highly politicized Justice Department would be happy to let the purging continue."

Could this be the most corrupt administration ever?

[B-Man]

A lengthy article, full of multiple examples of documented voter fraud, and more importantly several studies that show that it does NOT suppress minority voter turnout.

 

Voter Photo Identification: Protecting the Security of Elections

By Hans von Spakovsky

 

FTA:

Every individual who is eligible to vote should have the opportunity to do so. It is equally important, however, that the votes of eligible voters are not stolen or diluted by a fraudulent or bogus vote cast by an ineligible or imaginary voter. The evidence from academic studies and actual turnout in elections is also overwhelming that—contrary to the shrill claims of opponents—voter ID does not depress the turnout of voters, including minority, poor, and elderly voters.

 

{snip}

 

Conclusion

 

Despite all of the evidence to the contrary, opponents of voter ID refuse to admit that voter turnout is unaffected by such a requirement. Their claim that the implementation of voter ID laws “smacks of vote suppression”[44] is preposterous and an outrageous libel on the American people and their elected representatives. The vitriolic rhetoric engaged in by opponents of voter ID is a sign of desperation; their claims of “suppression” and “intimidation” have been shown to be completely untrue.

 

America is one of the only democracies in the world that does not uniformly require voters to present photo ID when they vote. Across the globe, democracies administer such a requirement without any problems and without any reports that their citizens are in any way burdened when voting.

 

In fact, America’s southern neighbor Mexico, which has a much larger rate of poverty than the United States, requires both a photo ID and a thumbprint to vote—and turnout has increased in Mexican elections since this requirement went into effect in the 1990s. Mexico’s voter ID laws are also credited with reducing the fraud that had prevailed in many Mexican elections and “allowing the 2000 election of Vicente Fox, the first opposition party candidate to be elected president of Mexico in seventy years.”[45]

 

Requiring voters to authenticate their identity is a perfectly reasonable and easily met requirement. Such measures are supported by the vast majority of voters of all races and ethnic backgrounds. As the U.S. Supreme Court has noted, voter ID protects the integrity and reliability of the electoral process. All states have a valid and legitimate state interest not only in deterring and detecting voter fraud, but also in maintaining the confidence of their citizens in the security of U.S. elections.

 

Heritage Foundation

 

On top of all that, the number of people who don’t already have a photo ID is incredibly small. An American University survey in Maryland, Indiana, and Mississippi found that less than one-half of 1 percent of registered voters lacked a government-issued ID, and a 2006 survey of more than 36,000 voters found that only “23 people in the entire sample–less than one-tenth of one percent of reported voters” were unable to vote because of an ID requirement. What about those who don’t have photo IDs? Von Spakovsky notes that “every state that has passed a voter ID law has also ensured that the very small percentage of individuals who do not have a photo ID can easily obtain one for free if they cannot afford one.”

 

 

.

Edited June 3, 2012 by B-Man

[3rdnlng]

http://parkercountyblog.com/2011/08/12/mississippi-naacp-leader-sent-to-prison-for-10-counts-of-voter-fraud/

 

 

"While NAACP President Benjamin Jealous lashed out at new state laws requiring photo ID for voting, an NAACP executive sits in prison, sentenced for carrying out a massive voter fraud scheme.

 

In a story ignored by the national media, in April a Tunica County, Miss., jury convicted NAACP official Lessadolla Sowers on 10 counts of fraudulently casting absentee ballots. Sowers is identified on an NAACP website as a member of the Tunica County NAACP Executive Committee.

Sowers received a five-year prison term for each of the 10 counts, but Circuit Court Judge Charles Webster permitted Sowers to serve those terms concurrently, according to the Tunica Times, the only media outlet to cover the sentencing.

 

“This crime cuts against the fabric of our free society,” Judge Webster said.

 

Sowers was found guilty of voting in the names of Carrie Collins, Walter Howard, Sheena Shelton, Alberta Pickett, Draper Cotton and Eddie Davis. She was also convicted of voting in the names of four dead persons: James L. Young, Dora Price, Dorothy Harris, and David Ross."

 

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/286557/yes-virginia-there-really-voter-fraud-hans-von-spakovsky

 

 

Yes, Virginia, There Really Is Voter Fraud

 

By Hans A. von Spakovsky

December 22, 2011 1:18 P.M.

 

"The latest voter-fraud convictions in Troy, N.Y., must be very inconvenient to the public-affairs propagandists over at the DNC and the NAACP, as well as liberal media outlets like the New York Times. It just ruins their constant refrain that there is no voter fraud in the United States.

 

Eric Shawn at FOX News reports that two Troy city officials, the city clerk and a councilman, along with two Democratic political operatives, have pled guilty to forging absentee-ballot signatures and casting fraudulent ballots in the 2009 Working Families Party primary. The WFP is the political party associated with ACORN.

 

One of the citizens whose votes were stolen was stunned at what happened. She said that she was “sure this goes on a lot in politics, but it’s very rare that they do get caught.” This voter was right on the money with that observation — fraud is so easy to commit in our election system that it is rare that fraudsters get caught and even rarer that they get prosecuted.

 

As for the constant liberal claims that voter fraud does not occur, one of the Democratic operatives who pled guilty, Anthony DeFiglio, told New York State police investigators “that faking absentee ballots was a commonplace and accepted practice in political circles, all intended to swing an election.” And whose votes do they steal? DeFiglio was very plain about that: “The people who are targeted live in low-income housing, and there is a sense that they are a lot less likely to ask any questions.”

That is exactly what former Alabama congressman Artur Davis said recently when he admitted that he was wrong to oppose voter-ID requirements. Davis says the “most aggressive” voter suppression “is the wholesale manufacture of ballots, at the polls and absentee, in parts of the Black Belt” of Alabama, which is an area of very poor black communities. These are the very areas where the NAACP claims voter fraud does not happen. The NAACP opposes all reasonable measures to safeguard the voting process for its own constituents, even going to the extent of defending vote stealers, as the NAACP did in Greene County, Ala., in the mid-1990s. Small wonder one of its local officials was recently sentenced to five years in prison for voter fraud in Tunica County, Mississippi.

 

In the Troy case, the ease with which voter signatures were forged without detection shows that signature comparison by election officials does not work and poses no deterrent to this type of voter fraud. That is why Kansas combined a voter-ID requirement in its new election law with a change to its absentee-ballot procedures. If you want to vote in person in Kansas, you now have to show a photo ID, and if you request an absentee ballot, you have to provide either a copy of your photo ID or the driver’s license number from the ID. That helps confirm that the registered voter — not some political operative like Anthony DeFiglio — actually requested the absentee ballot."

Edited June 3, 2012 by 3rdnlng

[B-Man]

The Reality of Voter Fraud

It is a serious problem.

 

By John Fund

 

The 2012 elections will feature many close races, likely including the presidential contest. That makes concern about voter fraud and ballot integrity all the more meaningful, and a conference held here last weekend by the watchdog group True the Vote made clear just how high the stakes are.

 

“Unfortunately, the United States has a long history of voter fraud that has been documented by historians and journalists,” Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens wrote in 2008, upholding a strict Indiana voter-ID law designed to combat fraud. Justice Stevens, who personally encountered voter fraud while serving on various reform commissions in his native Chicago, spoke for a six-member majority. In a decision two years earlier clearing the way for an Arizona ID law, the Court had declared in a unanimous opinion that “confidence in the integrity of our electoral processes is essential to the functioning of our participatory democracy. Voter fraud drives honest citizens out of the democratic process and breeds distrust of our government. Voters who fear their legitimate votes will be outweighed by fraudulent ones will feel disenfranchised.”

 

{snip}

 

It’s a pity that so much of the discussion about voting this fall will be drenched in race. Americans have two important rights when it comes to voting. The first is the right to vote without fear and intimidation, for which this country fought an epic civil-rights struggle in the 1960s. Those gains in voter access must be preserved. But Americans also have a right to vote without their ballots’ being canceled out by people who are voting twice, are voting for the dead or nonexistent, or are non-citizens. We can and should accomplish two goals in the 2012 election — making sure it is easy to vote, and making sure it is hard to cheat. Groups such as True the Vote will be essential to make sure both sides of that imperative are fulfilled.

 

National Review

 

 

 

Here is more of Justice Stevens plurality opinion quote;

 

"There is no question about the legitimacy or importance of the State's interest in counting only the votes of eligible voters. Moreover, the interest in orderly administration and accurate recordkeeping provides a sufficient justification for carefully identifying all voters participating in the election process. While the most effective method of preventing election fraud may well be debatable, the propriety of doing so is perfectly clear."

 

Perhaps someone should tell Attorney General Holder, and the vrest of the media.

 

 

 

 

 

.

[3rdnlng]

National Review

 

 

 

Here is more of Justice Stevens plurality opinion quote;

 

 

 

Perhaps someone should tell Attorney General Holder, and the vrest of the media.

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

He's working on indictments of the New Black Panther Party for their 2008 voter intimidation in Philadelphia and the same group's bounty on George Zimmerman. Nice country, where a state can't take dead people's names off the rolls but people can offer bounties and intimidate people at the polls and get away with it.

[Nanker]

Get over it. We'll never get voter ID laws passed unless we disenfranchise the Military living overseas. Maybe it'll take disenfranchising the entire Military.

[Taro T]

I agree. It's also not unreasonable for some to say this: Voting is such a fundamental right that to put restrictions on it, in ANY way, should only be done if there is some problem that needs to be addressed. At this point, there is NO problem, so why should we be limiting, in any way, people's right to vote?

 

Again -- intentions can and do matter. If there isn't a problem with voter fraud, what are we trying to fix? The very simple answer (and really, Magox -- disprovable? You know better than this) is that the ONLY reason this is an issue is because Republicans think it will limit Democrat turnout and Democrats think it will limit Democrat turnout. Complicating the issue is that there is a 'moral high ground' argument for both sides, neither of which is unreasonable. Why does anyone on this board give a rip about voter id laws? There is NO problem. What are you trying to solve? Because it's a partisan issue that both sides use to rile up their base. Stop being played. Vote the issues. This is so far away from being an issue it's comical.

 

 

What voter fraud!?!

 

Edit: I hate it when you guys force me to argue the other sides of these things. I think there should be voter ID laws. If I were 'in power', I wouldn't think about this for even two seconds in my first four years. This is just not anything to be all riled up about. There are so many more issues that need to be dealt with. Voter fraud is NOT a problem.

Yes, there should be restrictions on voting, namely 1 adult citizen 1 vote maximum. Voter ID laws help to enforce this restriction.

 

And, yes, turnout will most likely go down as it is made more difficult for people to vote multiple times.

 

I find it absolutely hysterical that DoJ which argues against voter ID laws requires people to show ID to enter their headquarters. Holy hypocrisy Batman!

[ExiledInIllinois]

Get over it. We'll never get voter ID laws passed unless we disenfranchise the Military living overseas. Maybe it'll take disenfranchising the entire Military.

 

 

Why can't the military vote as a block? They do everything as one? Some states have disproportionate military complexes.

[IDBillzFan]

So Wisconsin folks...I'm seeing Twitter get filled up with a Scott Walker Love Child story that apparently ran in a local paper to take Walker out of the race, but it turned out they had the wrong Scott Walker????

 

Did this really happen?

 

I remember the last day I received home delivery of the LA Times: the day before our recall election of Gray Davis, they had an "Arnold groped a woman" P1 above-the-fold story that looked like it was put together by The National Enquirer.

 

I swear, desperate liberals are a funny thing to watch sometimes.

[GG]

 

I remember the last day I received home delivery of the LA Times: the day before our recall election of Gray Davis, they had an "Arnold groped a woman" P1 above-the-fold story that looked like it was put together by The National Enquirer.

 

 

Well, that story was obviously wrong.

[IDBillzFan]

Well, that story was obviously wrong.

Well, it would have been more accurate had the woman cited in the article been his nanny.

[Doc]

How long after Walker is re-elected do the libs try for another recall?

[IDBillzFan]

How long after Walker is re-elected do the libs try for another recall?

Nov 7th?

[dayman]

I'm not up on this thread and don't mean to be attacked or attack by posting this but I just think this picture is classic:

 

http://m.static.newsvine.com/servista/imagesizer?file=laura-conawayEB278780-024C-6550-DF76-0E03ADABC8FA.jpg&width=600

Edited June 5, 2012 by TheNewBills