Alphadawg7 Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 Even though I think Barron will be the better player in the NFL, I hope we draft Gillmore over Barron if they want to go DB. I think Byrd and Wilson (Who have some pretty solid playing time together) is a better combo than Byrd and Barron as a rookie. Also, drafting Barron probably won't help the chances of Byrd resigning with us. However, I still think the best player that will be there at 10 that will also fit a need is Kuechly Barron plays SS and Byrd FS...so how exactly does that hurt the chances of resigning Byrd as I dont follow your logic with that? And you say Byrd/Wilson is better than Byrd/Barron (rookie)...well, Byrd/Barron/Wilson with a 3 safety set much like the Giants used looks pretty dam good to me...not to mention, people forget Wilson is 31 now and even though he made a lot of big plays last year, he also was a major liability in covering the slot, TE's and was so so in run support...all three things are what Barron supposedly excels at. You cant pass on major talent because you think your mid level bet is a better choice than a rookie because that talented rookie is only a rookie one season. Players like Berry, Troy, Reed, Sanders, etc came in and changed the face of those teams defenses instantly. Look at how much of a negative impact those D's have when those safeties are hurt. Its night and day. Wilson is not that kind of playmaker or game changer...Barron has substantial more upside. Your right about this but to me Floyd and Gilmore would make the team better also Agreed...again not saying Barron must be the pick, just saying I like the pick as well as I would like Floyd, Kuchely, Gilmore, Blackmon, Kalil
Kelly the Dog Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 They can list him at whatever they want, but Merriman IMO will see more time this year as an outside rushing line backer than DE. If Merriman is 100% again, he is bonafied starter in this league, he is not going to delegated to the bench behind Williams and Anderson and be used sparringly. His talent level (assuming he is healthy) will keep him on the field, so that means OLB. He may not be all 3 downs, or may focus on clear passing downs, but Williams and Anderson are already pass rush specialists, so that means to be on the field he will be rushing from the OLB. FYI: What you are listed at means on the teams website has very little to do with where you play on the field...I mean Brad Smith was a QB and used a WR primarily...Spiller was a RB used more as a WR prior to FJ injury...just to name a few. Wrong. The OLB position he has played his entire career is FAR more of a 4-3 DE than it is a 4-3 OLB. Last year when Houston went to a 3-4 with Wade Phillips, he made Mario Williams into that same position, the rush LB. He basically lined up at end on the line and rushed every play. Merrimen will play almost exclusively at DE in this defense, especially because he is very good at run defense, too.
Wayne Cubed Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 They can list him at whatever they want, but Merriman IMO will see more time this year as an outside rushing line backer than DE. If Merriman is 100% again, he is bonafied starter in this league, he is not going to delegated to the bench behind Williams and Anderson and be used sparringly. His talent level (assuming he is healthy) will keep him on the field, so that means OLB. He may not be all 3 downs, or may focus on clear passing downs, but Williams and Anderson are already pass rush specialists, so that means to be on the field he will be rushing from the OLB. FYI: What you are listed at means on the teams website has very little to do with where you play on the field...I mean Brad Smith was a QB and used a WR primarily...Spiller was a RB used more as a WR prior to FJ injury...just to name a few. And why is Anderson automatically penciled in as a starter? If Merriman has a better camp than Anderson(who's best sack season was last season)and is healthy enough, Merriman starts at end and Anderson comes in. Going from a 3-4 pass rushing OLB to a 4-3 WILL/SAM isn't as simple as flipping a switch. The two roles are very very different. As WILL/SAM linebacker if they are playing Zone, he will be required to drop into his zone coverage or in Man to Man he will be responsible for RBs and TE's. It isn't always a "hey shawne get in there and rush the pasher from OLB." Shawne played DE for Maryland. And if you read what I wrote. The Bills and Shawne himself have said he will play DE. Wrong. The OLB position he has played his entire career is FAR more of a 4-3 DE than it is a 4-3 OLB. Last year when Houston went to a 3-4 with Wade Phillips, he made Mario Williams into that same position, the rush LB. He basically lined up at end on the line and rushed every play. Merrimen will play almost exclusively at DE in this defense, especially because he is very good at run defense, too. Exactly
KOKBILLS Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 I've read most of this thread but not all of it, but the more I think of it, here is the only way that Barron works for me, even though I think he is an excellent player. It works if in the passing situations, Barron plays that Bryan Scott position and it keeps Wilson on the field as the roaming SS which he is very good at when there is a pass rush. Scott is decent and I am glad we re-signed him, but he is not the killer that Barron is. Barron is also a very good blitzer and he could cover the short zones RBs and TEs against NE (Scott was abused against NE last year). This also solves part of the need for another LB. Not that Barron is big enough to play LB but he is more of an up in the box safety anyway. The big safety defense with Barron in there on pass plays works for me, and he can play the run downs ahead of Wilson in the deep secondary. I'm guessing this is exactly how The Bills are looking at it...I think it's down to Barron and Kuechly...And they are going to go with the one they feel will match up best with the TE's, and fit best in what they are going to do on Defense... I'm not saying I agree with it, IF that is what they are thinking...but I do think you're close to the thought process if Barron end up being the pick... I'll say this too...And admittedly it means absolutely nothing..But in the past when I've had a REAL bad gut feeling about a pick I've always been able to justify it in my mind after a while...It's the Fan in me...You always want to believe it's going to be alright, or they know what they're doing more than I do...But I hated the Whitner, Maybin, and Spiller picks...All for different reasons...And Barron is giving me the same gut feeling as those high 1st Round picks...So...As a I said then, IF Barron is the pick, I hope I'm wrong... Anyway...
RyanC883 Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) If you think Barron is the next Ed Reed or Polomau (sp) you take him. I have no idea about this guy. I'm hoping for LB from BC, or another DL. The CB pick makes sense as well, but seems a little too high, and he had a shaky year at SC last year. The great thing is that Barron, Luke, or Gilmore will ALL make this team better. Just which one will make the team "more" better is the question. Edited April 25, 2012 by RyanC883
Alphadawg7 Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) Wrong. The OLB position he has played his entire career is FAR more of a 4-3 DE than it is a 4-3 OLB. Last year when Houston went to a 3-4 with Wade Phillips, he made Mario Williams into that same position, the rush LB. He basically lined up at end on the line and rushed every play. Merrimen will play almost exclusively at DE in this defense, especially because he is very good at run defense, too. I disagree...Merriman (if healthy) has the skill set to play at OLB in a 4-3. Doesnt matter what he "has" played because those were different situations, its about what he CAN play and if healthy he can could be effective at OLB. Anderson and Williams at DE are likely our starters. Merriman will play some time at DE, I am just saying that having all 3 on the field is better than 2, and to do so, Merriman will see more time at OLB once they see what he can do in camp. Doesnt mean I am right, but I played LB and know Merrimans game well from his time in SD, and if he has his speed and health back, the guy can be a strong player still at OLB, even if its just on obvious passing downs. So, again, I think he will have more snaps at OLB than DE this year...just my 2 cents. When you have talent you don't put it on the bench. Anderson is a DE only, and they didnt sign him to that contract to sit, so something has to give. Edited April 25, 2012 by Alphadawg7
Mr. WEO Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 13 pages dedicated to the possibility the Bills would spend a #10 on a safety... Yikes--and that so many have talked themselves into accepting this just because it's currently being discussed. That's some powerful voodoo, Buddy.
Lurker Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) But I hated the Whitner, Maybin, and Spiller picks...All for different reasons...And Barron is giving me the same gut feeling as those high 1st Round picks...So...As a I said then, IF Barron is the pick, I hope I'm wrong... Whitner couldn't hold Barron's jockstrap and Maybin was a panic move by a clueless HC. If Buddy thinks Barron is a difference maker, his track record of Spiller and Dareus shows he's pretty astute. If it's Kuechly, Gilmore or Glenn, I'll feel the same way... Edited April 25, 2012 by Lurker
KOKBILLS Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 If you think Barron is the next Ed Reed or Polomau (sp) you take him. This is the whole rub with Barron... Now...I don't think anybody is saying he's the next Reed or Polomalu...But that's OK...Those are HOF Safeties...We're only looking for a perennial Pro Bowler... Seriously though...There are those who feel he is the next great NFL Safety...There are those who feel he is the next great NFL SS...There are those who feel he's not much more than a REAL good in-the-box, downhill, run-stopping SS...It's all over the place with this Kid...But most feel he will be good...Just how good is the question...
Alphadawg7 Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 This is the whole rub with Barron... Now...I don't think anybody is saying he's the next Reed or Polomalu...But that's OK...Those are HOF Safeties...We're only looking for a perennial Pro Bowler... Seriously though...There are those who feel he is the next great NFL Safety...There are those who feel he is the next great NFL SS...There are those who feel he's not much more than a REAL good in-the-box, downhill, run-stopping SS...It's all over the place with this Kid...But most feel he will be good...Just how good is the question... You can say that really with any pick...I mean some say Kuechly is the next Urlacher, if thats true he should go top 5. It just comes down to what our FO thinks based on the endless amounts of research they have that we don't. Given so many top teams are rumored to be enamored with this kid, that says a lot. I see some people talking about Whitner...well when we shocked everyone and took him, there was not a line of teams looking to move up for him or drooling over the kid. This year, there are a lot of teams enamored with Barron and he is a popular name in a lot of trade up scenarios. So, its not just the Bills that see something in this kid. All that being said, a smoke screen can not be ruled out as Nix already said he would like more picks. So, maybe he is trying to entice a trade down to grab an extra second or third, or both to add more depth and fill more holes.
Haplo848 Posted April 25, 2012 Author Posted April 25, 2012 Another possible reason to be worried about Barron being the pick: Chris Brown has the Bills picking him on his mock draft he released today. http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Chris-Browns-2012-Mock-Draft/6340ae74-bb8c-464d-bae1-e99cbdb87aab 10. Buffalo OT, LB, CB Top choice: S Mark Barron - Alabama LB Luke Kuechly - Boston College Much like the Spiller pick in 2010, the Bills take the top player on the board and select the best safety to come out since Sean Taylor.
Coach Tuesday Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 My issue is the salary management standpoint. Wilson and Scott recently were extended, albeit not for enormous sums. Searcy was drafted last year and is waiting in the wings. Byrd has become one of the best young free safeties in the league and will be a free agent next offseason. So, is the plan to draft Barron, let Byrd walk, and move Wilson to free safety? If so, it's more of the same kind of recycling we've seen at the left tackle and running back positions over the years. From a long-term team-building standpoint, it makes little sense. My understanding was that the Bills' strategy on draft day is to take BPA at a need position. Safety is NOT a need position, even if they view Barron as a top-ten talent.
KOKBILLS Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 Maybin couldn't hold Barron's jockstrap and Maybin was a panic move by a clueless HC. If Buddy thinks Barron is a difference maker, his track record of Spiller and Dareus shows he's pretty astute. If it's Kuechly, Gilmore or Glenn, I'll feel the same way... I'm not comparing Maybin to Barron...Just how I felt about the Pick... I like Spiller as a player...I LOVED him in College...But I still don't think it was the right Pick for this team at the time with Freddie and Lynch on the Roster and a million needs elsewhere... My 4 year old Niece could have made the Dareus pick...so... I have some faith in Buddy...I'm just not as willing as some to give him a free pass...If he nails it this year then I'll be MUCH more willing...We'll see...
Lurker Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 My issue is the salary management standpoint. Wilson and Scott recently were extended, albeit not for enormous sums. Searcy was drafted last year and is waiting in the wings. Byrd has become one of the best young free safeties in the league and will be a free agent next offseason. So, is the plan to draft Barron, let Byrd walk, and move Wilson to free safety? If so, it's more of the same kind of recycling we've seen at the left tackle and running back positions over the years. From a long-term team-building standpoint, it makes little sense. The Bills have plenty of cap room and rookie contracts (especially at the #10) are not that difficult to fit in. Wilson is only making $1.7 million this year, which is not a heavy lift...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 The Bills have plenty of cap room and rookie contracts (especially at the #10) are not that difficult to fit in. Wilson is only making $1.7 million this year, which is not a heavy lift... But that's not my point. They're already paying 2 safeties somewhat higher than replacement-level, and they're about to give a big contract to Byrd (presumably). Add a first round pick salary to the position and it just seems like an over-allocation of resources to the position, even with the new wage scale.
KOKBILLS Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 If Barron is the pick, I'd be more pissed about the fact that it was telegraphed than about the pick itself. Agreed... You know...I am starting to feel that IF in fact they REALLY want Barron this info leaking out is a REAL bad thing...It's not like a Team can't come up ahead of The Bills and get him if they really want him...From most accounts everybody and their mother wants to trade down...So... My issue is the salary management standpoint. Wilson and Scott recently were extended, albeit not for enormous sums. Searcy was drafted last year and is waiting in the wings. Byrd has become one of the best young free safeties in the league and will be a free agent next offseason. So, is the plan to draft Barron, let Byrd walk, and move Wilson to free safety? If so, it's more of the same kind of recycling we've seen at the left tackle and running back positions over the years. From a long-term team-building standpoint, it makes little sense. My understanding was that the Bills' strategy on draft day is to take BPA at a need position. Safety is NOT a need position, even if they view Barron as a top-ten talent. Could not possibly agree more with this take... I think Barron is a good player...But... It's talent collecting...Not Team building IMHO...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 But that's not my point. They're already paying 2 safeties somewhat higher than replacement-level, and they're about to give a big contract to Byrd (presumably). Add a first round pick salary to the position and it just seems like an over-allocation of resources to the position, even with the new wage scale. I would agree with you if the rookie scale wasn't in effect, as well as the fact that safety is not a really high paid position. Barron at #10, if he is the pick, would make a little more than 4 yr 12 mil. Wilson doesn't make a ton, even if he were a back-up. Searcy's contract is peanuts. While Byrd will likely be expensive to re-sign next year because I predict he will have a monster year, we're lucky that safety isn't a position like QB, CB, WR, DE, LT, RB, etc. I think we're fine as far as salary in the safety area goes.
Ramius Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 Agreed... You know...I am starting to feel that IF in fact they REALLY want Barron this info leaking out is a REAL bad thing...It's not like a Team can't come up ahead of The Bills and get him if they really want him...From most accounts everybody and their mother wants to trade down...So... Could not possibly agree more with this take... I think Barron is a good player...But... It's talent collecting...Not Team building IMHO... Collecting talent never hurt any team, ever. That's hwo you win, by amassing the most talent. You don;t win by passing on better talent for need. You end up with Aaron Maybin that way. As for the salary ramifications, the #10 pick will get around a 4 yr/$12 mil deal. Very little impact on the cap.
Lurker Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 But that's not my point. They're already paying 2 safeties somewhat higher than replacement-level, and they're about to give a big contract to Byrd (presumably). Add a first round pick salary to the position and it just seems like an over-allocation of resources to the position, even with the new wage scale. I don't see Bryd's new contract (probably $4 million per year), Wilson's $2 million an Barron's rookie numbers ($1.3 million or so) being that much tied up in three players. Dareus is only making $1.3 million this year and has a cap hit of $4.6 million. Barron's cap hit would be substantially less, under the new salary rules--so maybe $8-9 million for all three guys in 2013-14. That's not that unusual, IMO...
BRAWNDO Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 The scouting staff seems to love him mentioning he can move to linebacker in the dime package. I think he is the pick. My link
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