Patriots Enternaining Trade Offers.....

[Doc]

well I most certainly heard none of those, and id be very interested to hear or see where you heard such rumors....I highly doubt he would have been drafted (let alone in the 3rd round by the Pats) if there were concerns over meth and cocaine....only thing he ever tested/admitted to was pot

Admitting to pot could have been a cover for the other stuff. Why else would Belichick be open to trading him after just 1 year? Has he already determined that Mallett won't be able to play in their system, without having played a real game yet?

[PaattMaann]

Admitting to pot could have been a cover for the other stuff. Why else would Belichick be open to trading him after just 1 year? Has he already determined that Mallett won't be able to play in their system, without having played a real game yet?

 

first of all I really dont think Belichick is open to trading Mallet, unless of course hes offered a "too good to be true" scenario from a QB desparate team....and second, I think he (and the offensive staff) really like Brian Hoyer, add in the fact that Brady will probably play for 3-5 more years and you have an obvious answer to why he would be willing to trade a 3rd QB on the depth chart (for a dynamite offer)....and Belichick loves turning one draft pick into multiple...

[Doc]

first of all I really dont think Belichick is open to trading Mallet, unless of course hes offered a "too good to be true" scenario from a QB desparate team....and second, I think he (and the offensive staff) really like Brian Hoyer, add in the fact that Brady will probably play for 3-5 more years and you have an obvious answer to why he would be willing to trade a 3rd QB on the depth chart (for a dynamite offer)....and Belichick loves turning one draft pick into multiple...

I can see wanting to trade Hoyer, because Hoyer has been in the NFL for 3 years, has proven nothing at the NFL level, and wasn't considered a worthwhile prospect coming out of college (hence the reason he went undrafted). Mallett had a lot of hype and has only been in the NFL for a year and hasn't had a chance to prove himself either way. But apparently Belichick is willing to trade him, when if he were worth keeping, he'd be the heir-apparent to Brady. And I think it goes without saying that any coach would trade a backup player for a "too good to be true" offer.

[djsabres]

Trent Richarson did not go to Arkansas.

[Mango]

My first thought is they possibly like a qb in this draft. They may package their 2 1sts and just be looking to get a return from mallet as well as that pick back.

 

Do they like tannehill?

 

Also they could hope Miami bites. Just pushing them further into the basement

[JohnC]

This Bills FO must believe that Fitz is more then adequate at QB to lead this team to the playoffs or they would have already replaced him, or at least drafted his eventual replacement. Apparently this FO thinks there are more pressing needs on this team then replacing the QB or even drafting a back up to groom. Even the owner went on record as stating Fitz will be fine, they just need to get him some runners, some WR's and a TE that can stay healthy. They wouldn't have paid Fitz what they paid him if they didn't think he was capable of leading this team to the playoffs.

 

 

You guys are all taking about winning a super bowl and this team hasn't even had a winning record for 8 years, and the last time they were in the playoffs was 1999.

 

If you think that I consider the Bills a SB caliber team with Fitz as its starting qb then you are badly mistaken. I'm not even sure that they are a playoff team with him behind the center. From my viewpoint it is reasonable to consider the Bills a fringe wildcard contender, but nothing more, at least at this point.

 

You don't have to explain to me that Fitz played on a very thin roster that resulted in a predictable catastrophe when starting players got hurt. That happens when the "finance boys" get very involved with the football operation. Saving $$$ on backups is not unusual in a Ralph Wilson managed franchise. That frugality is going to change because the new CAP system is going to force him to spend to a higher level.

 

My main point regarding my postings on this topic is that I consider RF to be an average starting qb, at best, in the NFL. I don't think that assessment is unfair. In fact, I consider it to be the prevailing view of the majority of football commentators. Without a doubt he is immensely better than his predecessers at his position. But that in itself means little because those that preceded him were atrocious.

 

I watched a lot of NFL games on my DirecTV dish. I have seen a lot of exceptional qb play and a lot of average to below-average qb play. I feel very comfortable in saying that Fitz is a very average NFL qb who will get the team to the respectable level (which is a step forward) but won't get it to the point of being a meaningful contending team. Some, if not many, consider my evaluation as being harsh and unfair. I don't.

Edited April 23, 2012 by JohnC

[TheFunPolice]

I would be SHOCKED

 

Look, this front office/coaching staff has garnered more good will out of fewer wins than I have EVER seen. People think that Nix and Gailey are geniuses, and Ralph is completely in love. All of that is fine and dandy, but the one thing that keeps me from jumping on board is their fixation on Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

They LOVE Fitz, plain and simple. They will go as far as he can take them, and they know that they have a couple more years at LEAST. Based on that, they will do NOTHING that would get in the way of being "right" about Fitzpatrick. If they trade for Mallet, even if he is the backup, the fans will go nuts and the pressure will become unbearable once Fitz goes into his annual titanic decline*.

 

So don't look for this front office/coaching staff to make any meaningful move to address the QB situation because they already did: they labelled Ryan Fitzpatrick a "franchise QB" and now they need to play it out or they look dumb, GMs and coaches ALWAYS think they are smarter than everyone else.

 

 

* actually his decline is due to (choose 1): the offensive line, injuries, no "real" WR, lack of a running game, the offensive line, the weather, the soggy turf, the meanies on the other team who won't let him just complete the passes.....

[Kelly the Dog]

If you think that I consider the Bills a SB caliber team with Fitz as its starting qb then you are badly mistaken. I'm not even sure that they are a playoff team with him behind the center. From my viewpoint it is reasonable to consider the Bills a fringe wildcard contender, but nothing more, at least at this point.

 

You don't have to explain to me that Fitz played on a very thin roster that resulted in a predictable catastrophe when starting players got hurt. That happens when the "finance boys" get very involved with the football operation. Saving $$ on backups is not unusual in a Ralph Wilson managed franchise. That frugality is going to change because the new CAP system is going to force him to spend to a higher level.

 

My main point regarding my postings on this topic is that I consider RF to be an average starting qb, at best, in the NFL. I don't think that assessment is unfair. In fact, I consider it to be the prevailing view of the majority of football commentators. Without a doubt he is immensely better than his predecessers at his position. But that in itself means little because those that preceded him were atrocious.

 

I watched a lot of NFL games on my DirecTV dish. I have seen a lot of exceptional qb play and a lot of average to below-average qb play. I feel very comfortable in saying that Fitz is a very average NFL qb who will get the team to the respectable level (which is a step forward) but won't get it to the point of being a meaningful contending team. Some, if not many, consider my evaluation as being harsh and unfair. I don't.

Indulge me if you could, because i think you are a very knowledgeable fan here,, even though I don't agree with you a fair amount of time.

 

Seriously, though, please let me know what you honestly think the highest tier QBs, like say Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Brees, etc, as well as the second tier QBs in the league, say Eli, Ryan, Rivers, Romo (whomever you want to put there) would have done on the Bills from say, week 10-16, with a crappy offensive line with no pocket in the middle and 2-3 seconds to throw, no Fred, an injured TE, one good WR who was playing hurt, and a defense who stopped no one so you were always playing from behind?

[Webster Guy]

Sorry, but we already traded with the Patriots for a statue QB with zero pocket presence and zero intangibles, that one time was more than enough.

You mean the 3 time pro bowl qb that threw for over 4400 yards for us in a single season? In case you're wondering that's about 1000 yards more than Jim Kelly's best.

 

I'll take zero pocket presence and 4400 yards any day of the week.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The argument is often presented that Fitz is playing on a below average team. That is certainly true. You can reasonably make the case that the Bills' roster has been mediocre for a generation. But playing on a good or bad team doesn't alter the abilities of the qb. Cam Newton, a rookie, demonstrated his exceptional "raw" talents in elevating the play of a very mediocre team in Carolina. If, last year, Fitz was the starting qb for Carolina I have no doubt that Carolina would have performed worse than it did with its rookie qb, who had a very truncated training camp.

 

I agree that quality QB play is necessary for a championship team.

 

I do feel obliged to ask, how this argument rationalizes the impact of Newton's exceptional talents on the Panthers W/L record? I do believe they are drafting ahead of us, exceptional QB and all.

 

Also curious, do you regard Bradford as a mediocre or poor QB? He certainly isn't living up to his #1 draft choice billing as the Rams got to trade down from #2 pick.

Do you think maybe, just maybe, playing on a bad team has altered his abilities, and playing on a good team might improve his impact somewhat?

 

You mean the 3 time pro bowl qb that threw for over 4400 yards for us in a single season? In case you're wondering that's about 1000 yards more than Jim Kelly's best.

 

I'll take zero pocket presence and 4400 yards any day of the week.

 

Whatever floats your boat. Our record was 8-8, 6-10, and 9-7 with Bledsoe at the helm. I really don't care how many yards the QB ratchets up, I care if the team wins.

If we're 8-8 next year and Fitz throws for 4,359 yds like Bledsoe did his first year here, will you be all happy?

[Doc]

You mean the 3 time pro bowl qb that threw for over 4400 yards for us in a single season? In case you're wondering that's about 1000 yards more than Jim Kelly's best.

 

I'll take zero pocket presence and 4400 yards any day of the week.

Kelly had 3,844 yards in 1991, Web. And he played in the era before they made it easier to pass.

[Rico]

You mean the 3 time pro bowl qb that threw for over 4400 yards for us in a single season? In case you're wondering that's about 1000 yards more than Jim Kelly's best.

 

I'll take zero pocket presence and 4400 yards any day of the week.

I mean the brain-dead clown who **** the bed against the Steelers 3rd-stringers with a playoff spot on the line..

"This is MY team!"

 

And nothing personal, but you do know stats are for losers.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Rico

[thewildrabbit]

If you think that I consider the Bills a SB caliber team with Fitz as its starting qb then you are badly mistaken. I'm not even sure that they are a playoff team with him behind the center. From my viewpoint it is reasonable to consider the Bills a fringe wildcard contender, but nothing more, at least at this point.

 

You don't have to explain to me that Fitz played on a very thin roster that resulted in a predictable catastrophe when starting players got hurt. That happens when the "finance boys" get very involved with the football operation. Saving $ on backups is not unusual in a Ralph Wilson managed franchise. That frugality is going to change because the new CAP system is going to force him to spend to a higher level.

 

My main point regarding my postings on this topic is that I consider RF to be an average starting qb, at best, in the NFL. I don't think that assessment is unfair. In fact, I consider it to be the prevailing view of the majority of football commentators. Without a doubt he is immensely better than his predecessers at his position. But that in itself means little because those that preceded him were atrocious.

 

I watched a lot of NFL games on my DirecTV dish. I have seen a lot of exceptional qb play and a lot of average to below-average qb play. I feel very comfortable in saying that Fitz is a very average NFL qb who will get the team to the respectable level (which is a step forward) but won't get it to the point of being a meaningful contending team. Some, if not many, consider my evaluation as being harsh and unfair. I don't.

 

My point to you is... how do you know Fitz is incapable of becoming a better QB with a better cast of players around him. Look at what he has accomplished with mostly cast offs and scrubs. Imagine a first round WR, or LT

 

The Bills have been drafting mostly for the defense the last few years. Spiller was a moronic pick considering the lack of talent on that O line at the start of 2010, and the lack of talent at WR-TE Spiller was a waste at one, Easly was a waste at 4, Wang was a waste at 5.

 

The Bills took Hairston with their 2nd 4th round pick in 2011, and good freaking thing they did or they would have needed to pull guys off the street again, like they did in 2010 for RT.

 

Indulge me if you could, because i think you are a very knowledgeable fan here,, even though I don't agree with you a fair amount of time.

 

Seriously, though, please let me know what you honestly think the highest tier QBs, like say Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Brees, etc, as well as the second tier QBs in the league, say Eli, Ryan, Rivers, Romo (whomever you want to put there) would have done on the Bills from say, week 10-16, with a crappy offensive line with no pocket in the middle and 2-3 seconds to throw, no Fred, an injured TE, one good WR who was playing hurt, and a defense who stopped no one so you were always playing from behind?

Kinda wasting your time with this, some people are so myopic they only see the QB. They think Brady -Rodgers- Brees or even that second tier would have taken this same team to the playoffs the last two years. I've been tying to explain and most fans just don't get it.

 

 

Weeks 10-16 of the 2011 season was a recap of the entire 2010 season. Lets not forget that the 2010 team was even worse then the 2011 team and mostly horrific. Stevie Johnson in 2009 had 2 receptions for 10 yards, it was TO, Evans and Parrish as the main WR's. In 2010 they didn't resign TO and Parrish only played in the first 8 games. Lee Evans played in 13 games The starting TE in 2010 was David Martin who had 7 catches for 43 yards.

 

So Fitz was sorta forced into finding someone who he could get the ball to very quickly, and thus Bills fans fell in love with WR Stevie Johnson. A 7th round WR who drops a ton of balls, it doesn't matter tho....its the QB's fault because he is so inaccurate.

[Wayne Cubed]

So Fitz was sorta forced into finding someone who he could get the ball to very quickly, and thus Bills fans fell in love with WR Stevie Johnson. A 7th round WR who drops a ton of balls, it doesn't matter tho....its the QB's fault because he is so inaccurate.

 

I didn't mind your post until you just had to rant about Stevie Johnson. I mean c'mon dude, "Tons" of balls? Thats like saying Fitz is inaccurate "Tons" of the time. Which btw, you act as though Fitz isn't ever inaccurate, like he can do no wrong.

 

Yes, we get it, you don't like Johnson or other "scrubs" in the WR corp and they aren't worthy of catching Fitz's spirals.

 

Riddle me this, if SJ drops "tons" of Fitz's super-amazingly-tight-accurate-spirals, why isn't he in the top 20 in the league of dropped passes? I realize that stat isn't official, but being that all receivers are on that list and are arguably getting rated the same way, why doesn't he make the top 20 if he drops a "ton"? Even if we give the people who create the stat an error of +/- 2 drops, he still isn't in the top 10.

 

You know its funny, posters like yourself, rag on the Bills reveivers when they drop a ball. Yet you don't applaud them when they make adjustments to terribly inaccurately thrown balls. Which there isn't a stat far, but surely makes the QBs(Fitz) completion stats look better. How many of Fitz's lame ducks did WR's have to make adjusments too(of which he has thrown many)?

 

In the end Fitz, Stevie and the rest of the offense make errors that contribute to poor performances and losses. Hell, I've seen Fred have a ball hit him in the hands that he dropped. But it is certainly not the WR corps fault we lost all the games we did last year as you imply. It was a combination of things, which include Fitz.

 

/rant

[JohnC]

Indulge me if you could, because i think you are a very knowledgeable fan here,, even though I don't agree with you a fair amount of time.

 

Seriously, though, please let me know what you honestly think the highest tier QBs, like say Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Brees, etc, as well as the second tier QBs in the league, say Eli, Ryan, Rivers, Romo (whomever you want to put there) would have done on the Bills from say, week 10-16, with a crappy offensive line with no pocket in the middle and 2-3 seconds to throw, no Fred, an injured TE, one good WR who was playing hurt, and a defense who stopped no one so you were always playing from behind?

 

As far as posters go I rank you in the upper tier. You are in the Brees, Brady etc category. As with you we are not always going to agree but you always give me pause to reconsider my positions because your positions are well reasoned.

 

Let me get right to the point: You are missing my point. You are strenuously maintaining that I am not factoring in the limitations of the roster and the thinness of the roster when I evaluate Fitz as a middling qb. The caliber of team Fitz is playing on has very little to do in my evaluation of him.

 

The second tier qbs you mentioned (I place Eli in the first tier) playing on better teams have nothing to do with how I rank them compared to Fitz. Your point they also would have struggled if they played on the ramshackle Bills last year is correct, but is not relevant to the discussion of how Fitz compares to them.

 

Are you with a straight face going to say that Fitz is better than Rivers? I don't care what team Rivers plays for or Fitz plays for. Fitz is simply not as good and will never be as good as Rivers. Rivers is simply a better passer. Fitz will never have the accuracy that Rivers has. Fitz has limitations, such as consistent accuracy and arm strength, that will always be part of his makeup.

 

 

I'm not suggesting that Fitz isn't a legitimate starter, because he is. I'm not suggesting that Fitz isn't without some valued qualities, such as mobility, leadership qualities and football intelligence, which he certainly possesses. If Jeff George had those Fitz traits he would be a first ballot hall of famer.

 

The mistake you and many others make is the hometown factor sometimes clouds how one views and values one's own players. For some when Jason Peters plays for the Bills he is a beast. When he gets traded and plays for the Eagles he is a bum although he regularly makes the national league all-pro team.

 

If you canvass the football publications and scan the internet most analysts rank Fitz in the mid to below mid range. In other words he is average at best. That is where I rank him. It shouldn't surprise anyone, although it does. If you watch a lot of different teams you will get a sense of the differennce between a very good qb and an average qb. In my view Fitz is what he is: average.

Edited April 23, 2012 by JohnC

[thewildrabbit]

I didn't mind your post until you just had to rant about Stevie Johnson. I mean c'mon dude, "Tons" of balls? Thats like saying Fitz is inaccurate "Tons" of the time. Which btw, you act as though Fitz isn't ever inaccurate, like he can do no wrong.

 

Yes, we get it, you don't like Johnson or other "scrubs" in the WR corp and they aren't worthy of catching Fitz's spirals.

 

Riddle me this, if SJ drops "tons" of Fitz's super-amazingly-tight-accurate-spirals, why isn't he in the top 20 in the league of dropped passes? I realize that stat isn't official, but being that all receivers are on that list and are arguably getting rated the same way, why doesn't he make the top 20 if he drops a "ton"? Even if we give the people who create the stat an error of +/- 2 drops, he still isn't in the top 10.

 

You know its funny, posters like yourself, rag on the Bills reveivers when they drop a ball. Yet you don't applaud them when they make adjustments to terribly inaccurately thrown balls. Which there isn't a stat far, but surely makes the QBs(Fitz) completion stats look better. How many of Fitz's lame ducks did WR's have to make adjusments too(of which he has thrown many)?

 

In the end Fitz, Stevie and the rest of the offense make errors that contribute to poor performances and losses. Hell, I've seen Fred have a ball hit him in the hands that he dropped. But it is certainly not the WR corps fault we lost all the games we did last year as you imply. It was a combination of things, which include Fitz.

 

/rant

I'm thinking you didn't read thru this entire thread, because on page 3 I listed the Bills WR's and their rating along with receptions vs targets. I also posted a you tube video of that dropped pass by Stevie Johnson in the end zone against the Steelers. You know, the one that would have won them the game in OT. If you watch it the announcers make a comment that Johnson had dropped 5 passes that day.

 

I was merely pointing to the Fitz haters that Stevie Johnson wasn't some super star WR early round draft pick. He was a 7th round pick that came into his own because Fitz kept throwing to him. Johnson only caught 2 passes in all of 2009. So it was in 2010 that once Fitz became the full time starter did Johnson emerge as a standout WR.

 

 

"You could levy the same charge against Steve Johnson of Buffalo, who was capable of looking the real deal one game, and then dropping five passes the next. Consistency and concentration are key attributes of guys who finish highly in these rankings, and it would be fair to say both men could do with working on those attributes to take their already impressive games to the next level."

 

Johnson was in the bottom 15 drop percentage in 2010. I believe Johnson was around 57% last year for his catch rate

 

http://www.profootba...rop-percentage/

 

NFN, But I wouldn't call one sentence a rant..... your post however

[Wayne Cubed]

I'm thinking you didn't read thru this entire thread, because on page 3 I listed the Bills WR's and their rating along with receptions vs targets. I also posted a you tube video of that dropped pass by Stevie Johnson in the end zone against the Steelers. You know, the one that would have won them the game in OT. If you watch it the announcers make a comment that Johnson had dropped 5 passes that day.

 

I was merely pointing to the Fitz haters that Stevie Johnson wasn't some super star WR early round draft pick. He was a 7th round pick that came into his own because Fitz kept throwing to him. Johnson only caught 2 passes in all of 2009. So it was in 2010 that once Fitz became the full time starter did Johnson emerge as a standout WR.

 

 

"You could levy the same charge against Steve Johnson of Buffalo, who was capable of looking the real deal one game, and then dropping five passes the next. Consistency and concentration are key attributes of guys who finish highly in these rankings, and it would be fair to say both men could do with working on those attributes to take their already impressive games to the next level."

 

Johnson was in the bottom 15 drop percentage in 2010. I believe Johnson was around 57% last year for his catch rate

 

http://www.profootba...rop-percentage/

 

NFN, But I wouldn't call one sentence a rant..... your post however

And again... does that at all take into account badly thrown balls? My guess is no... The catch rate statistic is subjective, as is drops. Who's fault is it when a ball is poorly thrown and the WR drops it? Are they suppose to catch everything within a specific radious of their hands even if its a poorly thrown ball?

 

Edit: I'm not trying to just defend SJ. And I'm also not throwing Fitz under the bus, because I love him as the Bills QB. But I believe a little perspective is important. The offense as a whole failed.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Wayne Cubed

[Punch]

This draft has better options at qb. After rg3 & luck there will be at least 2 or 3 more quality nfl starting qbs out of tannehill, Moore, cousins, Weedon and Keenum. And they can be had after the first round.

 

If bellicheat wants him out he must know he isn't going to work out.

 

This could be the answer as to why Belichick is willing to trade Mallett: perhaps they see someone in this year's draft class that they prefer developing over Ryan Mallett.

 

Having said that, I'd agree with The Senator that I prefer Nick Foles as a developmental QB, and in fact, Foles may very well be the guy Belichick is targeting this year--- if they are indeed looking at someone this year.

[firemedic]

I'd take a flyer with a 4th.

[Doc]

This could be the answer as to why Belichick is willing to trade Mallett: perhaps they see someone in this year's draft class that they prefer developing over Ryan Mallett.

 

Having said that, I'd agree with The Senator that I prefer Nick Foles as a developmental QB, and in fact, Foles may very well be the guy Belichick is targeting this year--- if they are indeed looking at someone this year.

If they like someone in this draft, they could draft him and make him 3rd string. Hoyer is no great shakes.