Patriots Enternaining Trade Offers.....

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Fitz is part of what's wrong with the Bills' deep passing game. Fitz isn't an accurate QB in general, and that lack of accuracy is accentuated on longer throws.

 

Riddle me this, Edwards Arm. Gailey is on record listing 3 things a QB needs to succeed in the NFL, one of the three being accuracy.

He is on record saying Fitz has all three attributes including accuracy.

 

I keep reading here fans say he isn't an accurate QB in general.

 

What's the discrepency? What do you guys know that Gailey doesn't?

 

I've seen "wtf?" throws out of Fitz. I've also seen him thread the needle.

 

Long throws are low percentage throws in any system. That was one of the drivers behind the West Coast offense, right?

[OCinBuffalo]

Apparently there is nothing about this team upon which Bill and I agree.

 

I hate the idea of trading for Mallet, even for a bag of balls.

 

I hate the idea of Barron @ 10. I don't want the OT who's not really a LT, but might be tried there, but then moved to RT. The only thing left is WR and CB, because I hate the idea of trading down, when and if, QBs are taken ahead of us, bumping a blue chip guy or 2 down to be there @ 10.

 

Well, at least we can agree about the team itself.

 

Go Bills.

Edited April 22, 2012 by OCinBuffalo

[BillnutinHouston]

Belichick would not willingly part with a guy he believed could help him win. This should not be over-thought.

Edited April 22, 2012 by BillnutinHouston

[Fan in Chicago]

Riddle me this, Edwards Arm. Gailey is on record listing 3 things a QB needs to succeed in the NFL, one of the three being accuracy.

He is on record saying Fitz has all three attributes including accuracy.

 

I keep reading here fans say he isn't an accurate QB in general.

 

What's the discrepency? What do you guys know that Gailey doesn't?

 

I've seen "wtf?" throws out of Fitz. I've also seen him thread the needle.

 

Long throws are low percentage throws in any system. That was one of the drivers behind the West Coast offense, right?

 

Its not about difference in perception by the coaches and fans. I have no way to know what Gailey et all are thinking but IMHO, they don't have any better options at QB right now. They will stock the roster as superior players become available, including the QB position. I felt that they should have picked up one of the many QBs last draft (in Rd 2+) but apparently they did not think one was BPA at their pick position. Not to say they won't do it this draft.

Fitz looks perfectly fine as a caretaker who transcends his lack of arm strength and accuracy with superior decision making. This is fine perhaps to get us to the playoffs but in the critical games, we need someone of higher caliber.

[3rdand12]

Fitz can take us all the way if used correctly Chan is the question here. There is no reason i can see why we were forcing the ball so much when we could run as well as we did. And then did not. The play calling after the rib injury really concerns me.

We still need an understudy for Fitzy and this year would be a good year to pick one up in the draft mid rounds.

[thewildrabbit]

I think Fitz can stand to improve more, and hopefully a full off-season as the undisputed starter will help him, since he'll get most of the attention of the (new) QB coach, unlike at any other time in his career. And Lee has seen some things he thinks he can correct. However I agree that Fitz' supporting cast while good, could also stand to improve. That's why they should go offense early and often. The offense scored 27.1 PPG (removing defensive TD's) in the first 7 games, before injuries took their toll.

Last season Fitz was looking like a top ten / pro bowl QB when center Eric Wood was healthy, the line playing well and Fred Jackson running hard. Then in week 9 against the Jets the wheels came off when Eric Wood went out. With no reliable back up center, and both LT's Bell, and the rookie Hairston suffering injuries the line went to hell. That is what caused that 7 game losing skid from week 9 to week . Not to mention the game before the Jets game Fitz was hit so hard he suffered cracked / broken ribs.

 

In week 10 Fred Jackson went out with an injury and ended up on IR so the running game went out the window. It didn't seem to matter anyway because the defense was so bad that the team was always playing catch up, and Gailey would call for throw throw throw right into the teeth of the defense.

 

Dallas 44, Bills 7 remember that game? Miami 35, Bill 8. The O line was so bad against the Dolphins the Bills couldn't even get the snap off properly most of that game. Still, Gailey would call pass after pass, and Fitz, the brave soul that he is, stood there and took it... cracked ribs and all.

 

Passing attempts 578, rushing attempts 391....if Fitz is average or below average as most fans here claim he is. Then why is it then, that this HC tries to force the QB to win games instead of running the ball more? The Man did draft a RB with his first pick, still can't figure out why he doesn't work him.

 

 

I think the team around Fitz could drastically improve more.

[PaattMaann]

a drug relapse? jesus christ he was smoking pot not shooting heroin haha....theres alot of things probably to worry about with Mallet, a "drug relapse" doesnt even rate....the cluelessness of some people around here baffles me...

[Orton's Arm]

You can fairly argue that Fitz has not had the quality support cast, and that would be true. But that doesn't change the reality that Fitz is an average to below average caliber qb in the league. He is an exceptionally intelligent qb who can see plays developing without having the ability to consistently execute the plays.

 

As far as possessing an NFL arm he is very pedestrian. With respect to his accuracy he is erratic. There are periods when he is on fire and will make some good tight throws. There are other times when he won't be able to successfully throw the ball into a tight window. In other words he is very inconsistent.

 

Teams that make the playoffs and then advance in the playoffs usually have upper tier qbs. Anyone who tries to place him in that upper echelon ranking is not objectively grading him relative to the competition. As an NFL qb Fitz is adequate at best. Compared to what preceded him he is a gem. Compared to the better qbs in the league (not compared to the elite qbs) he is mediocre.

 

Hometown fans have a tendency of making the mistake of evaluating with their heart instead of with their eyes. It is an understandable trap than many fall into.

 

The following attachment is a raido interview between Tim Graham and Matt Williamson who was a scout in the league. His take on Fitz is spot on. It is a fair and balanced assessment of Fitz.

 

 

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/billboard/2012/04/audio-tim-graham-talks-with-espn-nfl-scout-matt-williamson-news-has-you-covered-on-draft-night.html

Good post, and I agree with it. Fitz is an upgrade over Trent Edwards, and is okay as an NFL starter. Better than some, worse than others.

 

Unfortunately, nine out of ten of the last Super Bowls have been won by teams with franchise QBs. One can be reasonably confident that the Bills will not win a Super Bowl with him under center.

[Doc]

a drug relapse? jesus christ he was smoking pot not shooting heroin haha....theres alot of things probably to worry about with Mallet, a "drug relapse" doesnt even rate....the cluelessness of some people around here baffles me...

It's a concern, and talk before last year's draft is that he did harder stuff than just pot. And considering Belichick is willing to deal him after just a year, before he's even played in a real game, it makes you wonder.

[3rdand12]

If any team could break a tradition or a trend it's us. Because in many we ways we already have. heck 50% + of our team are underdogs. Most noticebly Buddy and Chan. And i am convinced that we are trending upwards. lets continue to improve the team around Fitz, and get together at the end of next year. We can make the call on Fitz and some others over a couple beers tears and cheers

[JohnC]

Good post, and I agree with it. Fitz is an upgrade over Trent Edwards, and is okay as an NFL starter. Better than some, worse than others.

 

Unfortunately, nine out of ten of the last Super Bowls have been won by teams with franchise QBs. One can be reasonably confident that the Bills will not win a Super Bowl with him under center.

 

If you look at the most regular SB contending teams what they all have in common is an upper tier franchise qb. Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Manning Brothers, Roethlisberger come to mind who fall in that category. In the cap system of the NFL all teams are going to have position deficiencies. What can override a team's limitations, sometimes numerous limitations, is having an exceptional qb at the helm.

 

Is Fitz the type of qb who can lead a team to a SB game? Of course not. He is the type of qb who with a quality roster can lead his team to being a fringe wildcard contender.

 

There are many fawning hometown fans who believe that just because you play for the home town you automatically qualify for the all-pro. There are many blinded hometown fans who believe that if you point out the limitations of your qb you are unfairly slandering him.

 

The argument is often presented that Fitz is playing on a below average team. That is certainly true. You can reasonably make the case that the Bills' roster has been mediocre for a generation. But playing on a good or bad team doesn't alter the abilities of the qb. Cam Newton, a rookie, demonstrated his exceptional "raw" talents in elevating the play of a very mediocre team in Carolina. If, last year, Fitz was the starting qb for Carolina I have no doubt that Carolina would have performed worse than it did with its rookie qb, who had a very truncated training camp.

[John from Riverside]

Fitz can take us all the way if used correctly Chan is the question here. There is no reason i can see why we were forcing the ball so much when we could run as well as we did. And then did not. The play calling after the rib injury really concerns me.

We still need an understudy for Fitzy and this year would be a good year to pick one up in the draft mid rounds.

 

In order to be patient with the run.....you have to get stops on defense....we did not do that last year

[Hapless Bills Fan]

a drug relapse? jesus christ he was smoking pot not shooting heroin haha....theres alot of things probably to worry about with Mallet, a "drug relapse" doesnt even rate....the cluelessness of some people around here baffles me...

 

I heard meth and cocaine

 

Both easy to relapse

[Bill from NYC]

If you look at the most regular SB contending teams what they all have in common is an upper tier franchise qb. Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Manning Brothers, Roethlisberger come to mind who fall in that category. In the cap system of the NFL all teams are going to have position deficiencies. What can override a team's limitations, sometimes numerous limitations, is having an exceptional qb at the helm.

 

Is Fitz the type of qb who can lead a team to a SB game? Of course not. He is the type of qb who with a quality roster can lead his team to being a fringe wildcard contender.

 

There are many fawning hometown fans who believe that just because you play for the home town you automatically qualify for the all-pro. There are many blinded hometown fans who believe that if you point out the limitations of your qb you are unfairly slandering him.

 

The argument is often presented that Fitz is playing on a below average team. That is certainly true. You can reasonably make the case that the Bills' roster has been mediocre for a generation. But playing on a good or bad team doesn't alter the abilities of the qb. Cam Newton, a rookie, demonstrated his exceptional "raw" talents in elevating the play of a very mediocre team in Carolina. If, last year, Fitz was the starting qb for Carolina I have no doubt that Carolina would have performed worse than it did with its rookie qb, who had a very truncated training camp.

 

Hi John! There are many things to address in this post.

 

The first is "fawning hometown fans." This is to be expected on a Bills board, no? There are even some who will defend stupid draft selections til the end. We are Bills fans here, and all of our opinions are just a bit jaded, no?

As for Fitz, I think that for the most part you are correct. Losman and Edwards could not win consistently (imo) with a superb supporting cast. Especially Losman. That said, as much as I couldn't take watching JP, the 2006 draft and offseason seemed to kill whatever little chance of success that he had.

Fitz IS better than these guys. He is smarter and tougher than either of them. I also like that he was a second teamer with SJ. I believe that he taught SJ quite a bit, and that they have chemistry. This is a HUGE help, and probably at least some of the reason that SJ re-signed with us.

In my weekly "Thoughts" and other posts, I broached the possibility that Fitz was hurt last year. I am too lazy to look it up and post a link, but I stand by this. And "Dick Drawn" agreed. I cite him because he really is, imo, the most knowledgable fan I for one has ever talked to.

 

In summary, I agree with you that Fitz is not on the talent level of recent superbowl winning qbs. If he does win one, he would be something of an anomaly. Perhaps even a folk hero. In other words, it is not something one could readily expect. But my thing is to get him more blocking, improve the defense even more, and draft a backup.

 

Let's make the playoffs and see what happens.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Senator]

I was one of the biggest proponents - probably bigger than Bill - for drafting Mallett last year. Now 'that ship has sailed' - and the Bills would have to be morons to take the Belicheat* bait.

 

If Mallett shows any real promise at all, why would NE* want to trade him? Marcia* is 34 years old, and about to take the worst pounding of her* career this season!

 

And, if BB* is just dangling him out there hoping to find some GM stupid enough to give him a 3rd or 4th in this year's draft for Mallett, then Belicheat has already decided that Mallett' s not the next NE* QB. He'll draft another developmental QB this year, and just cut Mallett anyway. (Unless he finds that one mentally-challenged GM that'll make the trade).

 

 

The Bills are best choosing their own developmental QB on day 3 of the draft - a guy who has no drug or other character issues and is, as Buddy prefers, a very 'high-character' guy - 6'5" 245 lb. Nick Foles from Arizona.

 

(That is, unless Belicheat* beats us to the podium on Foles!)

 

 

GO BILLSSS!!!!

 

19 and 0 baby!!!!!

[3rdand12]

In order to be patient with the run.....you have to get stops on defense....we did not do that last year

I hope we do this year, actually we sure as heck better slow down that freight train we saw last year run right over our 3-4 hybrid.

I expect we will be much improved on defense and not nearly feeling as desperate on offense.

[JohnC]

Hi John! There are many things to address in this post.

 

The first is "fawning hometown fans." This is to be expected on a Bills board, no? There are even some who will defend stupid draft selections til the end. We are Bills fans here, and all of our opinions are just a bit jaded, no?

 

If you are making the point that although I don't fall into the category of a "fawning hometown fan" that I'm a jaded fan who is being cyncical for the sake of being tiresome then you are well off the mark. If it is expected that there are many participants on a Bills board who fall into the category of being homers then don't be surprised when there are others who try to balance out the distortion of the reality of such a skewed view. Discussing the status of the team is what the forum is all about.

 

 

As for Fitz, I think that for the most part you are correct.

 

It's not as if I said anything controversial. Sometimes what is obvious is obvious.

 

Losman and Edwards could not win consistently (imo) with a superb supporting cast. Especially Losman.

 

With or without a good supporting cast both of these qbs were not good. They have a certain talent level and traits that no matter what team they played for they still would not become franchise qbs. Of course playing with a better team would enhance their performances, but only up to a point. Especiallty with qbs you either have it or you don't. So far that has proven to be true with both players.

 

 

 

Fitz IS better than these guys. He is smarter and tougher than either of them.

 

I specifically made the point that Fitz was better than his predecessors. That is without question. Meeting that standard isn't a lofty achievement.

 

 

 

I also like that he was a second teamer with SJ. I believe that he taught SJ quite a bit, and that they have chemistry. This is a HUGE help, and probably at least some of the reason that SJ re-signed with us.

 

SJ resigned with the Bills because he got the best offer and was in a good situation in Buffalo. Let's not get carried away that he stayed with Buffalo out of a kinship with Fitz. The contract offers that SJ got from the "outside" were not near what he originally thought he was going to get from the marketplace. Buddy Nix had a reasonable salary parameter for him and SJ was not able to get an offer above that reasonable offer.

 

"In my weekly "Thoughts" and other posts, I broached the possibility that Fitz was hurt last year. I am too lazy to look it up and post a link, but I stand by this. And "Dick Drawn" agreed. I cite him because he really is, imo, the most knowledgable fan I for one has ever talked to."

 

There is no secret that Fitz was playing hurt. Fitz injured his ribs in the Skins game in Toronto. When you consider the caliber of the team's backup there shouldn't be any surprise why the HC stuck with the damaged qb.

 

In summary, I agree with you that Fitz is not on the talent level of recent superbowl winning qbs. If he does win one, he would be something of an anomaly. Perhaps even a folk hero. In other words, it is not something one could readily expect. But my thing is to get him more blocking, improve the defense even more, and draft a backup.

 

Whether Fitz is one of the best or one of the mediocre qbs in the league the GM should still be striving to upgrade the OL, improve the defense and get a better backup.

Edited April 23, 2012 by JohnC

[brenty]

 

ENJOY!!!

[PaattMaann]

I heard meth and cocaine

 

Both easy to relapse

 

well I most certainly heard none of those, and id be very interested to hear or see where you heard such rumors....I highly doubt he would have been drafted (let alone in the 3rd round by the Pats) if there were concerns over meth and cocaine....only thing he ever tested/admitted to was pot

 

im certainly not saying I want to trade for him haha, but people talking "relapse" over the dude enjoying a bong hit here and there is rediculous

[thewildrabbit]

If you look at the most regular SB contending teams what they all have in common is an upper tier franchise qb. Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Manning Brothers, Roethlisberger come to mind who fall in that category. In the cap system of the NFL all teams are going to have position deficiencies. What can override a team's limitations, sometimes numerous limitations, is having an exceptional qb at the helm.

 

Is Fitz the type of qb who can lead a team to a SB game? Of course not. He is the type of qb who with a quality roster can lead his team to being a fringe wildcard contender.

 

There are many fawning hometown fans who believe that just because you play for the home town you automatically qualify for the all-pro. There are many blinded hometown fans who believe that if you point out the limitations of your qb you are unfairly slandering him.

The argument is often presented that Fitz is playing on a below average team. That is certainly true. You can reasonably make the case that the Bills' roster has been mediocre for a generation. But playing on a good or bad team doesn't alter the abilities of the qb. Cam Newton, a rookie, demonstrated his exceptional "raw" talents in elevating the play of a very mediocre team in Carolina. If, last year, Fitz was the starting qb for Carolina I have no doubt that Carolina would have performed worse than it did with its rookie qb, who had a very truncated training camp.

In all honesty I hated the guy prior to the 2010 season and was complaining about the Bills settling for a back up like Fitz even being on the team due to his record as a back up QB. I was rather annoyed at the fans who were enamored with him because he won a few games under Perry Fewell in 2009 after Trent Edwards was benched.

 

Then I watched him play in 2010, with the O line in complete shambles. No RT, a center playing with a bad back. I watched as Fitz literally ran for his life every offensive play in week 4 against the Jets, he was the leading rusher in that game. The Bills line was so bad that they couldn't run, they couldn't throw and Fitz did his best to even survive that game. If I wasn't a Bills fan it would have been downright hilarious to watch Fitz scramble for his life play after play. I did start to admire his escapability tho. In 2010 he had QB rushing stats very similar to Mike Vick with a 6.8 YPC avg.

 

Then I watched him lead his team to OT against the Ravens, Chiefs and Steelers. I keep posting that youtube video of Stevie Johnson dropping that TD pass in the endzone, because if not for that drop, and the WR makes that catch, its a game winner. The Bills won games against Cleveland and Cincy 49-31and almost beat the Steelers and Ravens. Both the Ravens (34-37 OT @ Baltimore) and Steelers are perennial playoff teams, and do not give up wins easily. If Fitz can play like that with a crap O line, a crap WR corps, and no TE. I came away with the realization that Fitz had experience playing against teams in the NFC North because he was a back up at Cincy and had learned how to play against their respective defenses.

 

I didn't start out liking Fitz because he was now the starter of the Buffalo Bills. I don't consider myself a "homer" by any means. I grew to like him because he was able to get things done with sub par talent around him. Did all those cast off scrub players from other teams magically become good players once they donned a Bills uniform? Actually, they all still mostly suck, Its Fitz that is making them look good. 2 of the 5 current O linemen wouldn't even make other teams rosters, how do I know this? Because that's where they came from, cast offs from other teams. That rookie LT Hairston wasn't ready to be a starter, he was forced into action because of an injury to the starter and did OK because all he needs to do is pass block for 2 seconds. Almost anyone weighing 300 lbs could manage to get in the way of an oncoming defender for at least 2 seconds.

 

What I don't understand is why I need to defend Fitz at all to other Bills fans? Are they all so blind that they don't see how bad some of the players around Fitz really are? The 7th round WR that became good only because Fitz kept throwing to him. No other decent top WR even on the roster. A patchwork O line with only 2 quality players,and one of those two keeps ending his season on IR. A TE that no other team wanted, 3 teams in 3 years says it all. Fitz managed to make the guy look like a viable pass catching TE.

 

 

Both Chan Gailey and Buddy Nix went on record as stating if Cam Newton had been there at the 3 spot in 2010 he would have become a Buffalo Bill. So clearly this regime thinks that while Fitz is better then those other rookie QB's in the 2010 draft class that might take a few years to develop. Ponder, Locker, Dalton. He isn't better then Newton.

 

This Bills FO must believe that Fitz is more then adequate at QB to lead this team to the playoffs or they would have already replaced him, or at least drafted his eventual replacement. Apparently this FO thinks there are more pressing needs on this team then replacing the QB or even drafting a back up to groom. Even the owner went on record as stating Fitz will be fine, they just need to get him some runners, some WR's and a TE that can stay healthy. They wouldn't have paid Fitz what they paid him if they didn't think he was capable of leading this team to the playoffs.

 

 

You guys are all taking about winning a super bowl and this team hasn't even had a winning record for 8 years, and the last time they were in the playoffs was 1999. The Ravens used a first round pick on Joe Flacco in 2008 and have been developing the guy for years. They have been in the playoffs almost every year since drafting him and still haven't been to a super bowl. IMO Fitz is better then Flacco and just needs a decent team around him to prove it.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Fear the Beard