LabattBlue Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 I'm glad I turned in my miles for 3 round trip tickets to San Diego earlier this year. Their future is shaky at best.
DC Tom Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 Fair enough. Personally I don't know what US Air has supposedly done that is so horrible, so I won't speak to it. But if I worked for a company that needed help I would support tham so long as it didn't interfere with previous plans. But if all I planned on doing was watching soaps all day, I would help out a few hours. 183516[/snapback] US Air has been heading for bankruptcy for years, since '99 at least. They're poorly enough managed that when the airline bailout was approved after 9/11, the government specifically stated that US Air wouldn't be getting any aid as their financial trouble was obviously not a result of 9/11. In short, it's a horribly managed company (as eveidence by the fact that they're asking employees to volunteer their time), and has been for years. At this point, people volunteering their time to them is not going to save them.
gantrules Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 We work for free all the time. Whenever, major contract awards are up, senior staff are expected at least to review pieces relevant to their skills. A lot of times we wind up writing major portions of the proposals. Most of the work is done at night and weekends on our own time. Of course, if one wants to have a job and keep a company solvent that's what you do. Of course one could sit there and B word and moan about it, and when the company goes under, blame the government and look for handouts from the government. 183471[/snapback] I'm sure you aren't an hourly employee and I'm sure you make a hell of a lot more than hourly employees make. Let's see...I'm going to give up my free time, potentially have to get a babysitter for my kids and do this all for a company that darn near ended up screwing me over because their business model sucks once?
gantrules Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 One other thing, as long as I have a working body and/or mind, I would NOT ever ask for assitance from the government. 183512[/snapback] Guess you've never really been in dire straits......
VABills Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 I'm sure you aren't an hourly employee and I'm sure you make a hell of a lot more than hourly employees make. Let's see...I'm going to give up my free time, potentially have to get a babysitter for my kids and do this all for a company that darn near ended up screwing me over because their business model sucks once? 183600[/snapback] I am salaried. However, because of contractual issues, if I do overtime for client work they do pay us overtime. It is voluntary on the companies part. They usually will pay OT for those lesser paid employees for the proposal work, even if they are salaried, it is usually is up to the manager. My company sucks, and they should have proposal staff on board, but they don't and we kind of are expected to help. We don't have to and we could say no, but again, when they lose contracts, who do you think they will remember to cut first.
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 So you would rather they went out of business and you would have no job. Of course any benefits would be lost or at least held through the bankruptcy, so forget COBRA benefits, retirement plans, etc... Yet you would probably turn around and demand the government support you, because you were selfish. 183498[/snapback] Yeah, these selfish !@#$s who want to get paid for working really ought to get lost. No government handouts for them! The CEOs, on the other hand...
VABills Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 Yeah, these selfish !@#$s who want to get paid for working really ought to get lost. No government handouts for them! The CEOs, on the other hand... 183625[/snapback] SO the unions and the employees who staged the sickout and threatened to do so again this weekend are not responsible. So the union who knows the company, and most airlines are having a hard time staying solvent are not responsible to help management out. I see. It is always the management, and stock holders. The employees have nothing to do with the success of the company by not being overly greedy in their demands and not staging sickout or work slowdowns.
scribo Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 Guess you've never really been in dire straits...... 183603[/snapback] The key word there is "Guess." I've certainly had my share of bad luck, but I know that hard work can overcome bad luck. All I'm saying is that as long as can work, I will. This thread is just full of cranky people.
VABills Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 The key word there is "Guess." I've certainly had my share of bad luck, but I know that hard work can overcome bad luck. All I'm asaying is that as long as can work, I will. This thread is just full of cranky people. 183652[/snapback] I'm not cranky. I am allergic to stupid statements.
HopsGuy Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 I'm glad I turned in my miles for 3 round trip tickets to San Diego earlier this year. Their future is shaky at best. 183532[/snapback] Well played. I have 110k miles with them that might go up in smoke. Might be time for a trip to Vegas and/or San Francisco.
gantrules Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 The key word there is "Guess." I've certainly had my share of bad luck, but I know that hard work can overcome bad luck. All I'm saying is that as long as can work, I will. This thread is just full of cranky people. 183652[/snapback] I was working two jobs while going to college and had my kids on Child Health Plus (state medical care) because I couldn't afford to pay out $400.00 a month with all the other bills we all have. My point is that if the government put these programs out there to help people you might as well use them.
Surfmeister Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 We work for free all the time. Whenever, major contract awards are up, senior staff are expected at least to review pieces relevant to their skills. A lot of times we wind up writing major portions of the proposals. Most of the work is done at night and weekends on our own time. Of course, if one wants to have a job and keep a company solvent that's what you do. Of course one could sit there and B word and moan about it, and when the company goes under, blame the government and look for handouts from the government. 183471[/snapback] Amen. I hear ya !
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 SO the unions and the employees who staged the sickout and threatened to do so again this weekend are not responsible. So the union who knows the company, and most airlines are having a hard time staying solvent are not responsible to help management out. I see. It is always the management, and stock holders. The employees have nothing to do with the success of the company by not being overly greedy in their demands and not staging sickout or work slowdowns. 183650[/snapback] Well, we are talking about the non-union workers having to put in the free time, but you take this as an opportunity to rip into the unions. Do you know what kind of provisions the union workers have in their contracts for safety, and that none of these are up for elimination? Have you read through it and can you assure me that it this is pure greed on the union's part, but that the company has the best of intentions? Somehow we are supposed to hold the government accountable for wasteful spending and bureacracy but when a company does it, it's OK. It's the workers' fault. Just cut anything that makes it worth working for them, and the workers should just be so grateful to have a job that they lie down and take it. It's bull sh--.
gantrules Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 It comes down to whether or not you feel a loyalty to your company and you want to see it succeed. I would be loyal to my company. But, if I was an hourly employee, say a teller, I more that likely wouldn't feel that same loyalty.
scribo Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 I was working two jobs while going to college and had my kids on Child Health Plus (state medical care) because I couldn't afford to pay out $400.00 a month with all the other bills we all have. My point is that if the government put these programs out there to help people you might as well use them. 183661[/snapback] I certainly am not putting down someone who is trying to better themselves. Not that I even brought this up, but my issue is with people who use such programs but never give back. You'll end up making more with that college education and thus eventually contribute more in taxes. It all works out. I just cannot stand those who continually live off the government without any real effort to enable themselves to support themselves.
Just Jack Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 I certainly am not putting down someone who is trying to better themselves. Not that I even brought this up, but my issue is with people who use such programs but never give back. You'll end up making more with that college education and thus eventually contribute more in taxes. It all works out. I just cannot stand those who continually live off the government without any real effort to enable themselves to support themselves. 183750[/snapback] I used to live in an area where kids looked forward to turning 18 because they could go on the welfare, get married/shack up and start popping out kids. It's sad that some people look forward to the free handout. I'll stick to trying to get my handout via the lottery or casino.
gantrules Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 I certainly am not putting down someone who is trying to better themselves. Not that I even brought this up, but my issue is with people who use such programs but never give back. You'll end up making more with that college education and thus eventually contribute more in taxes. It all works out. I just cannot stand those who continually live off the government without any real effort to enable themselves to support themselves. 183750[/snapback] Agreed, wholeheartedly. I don't know anyone who does this but I'm sure they are out there. I met a lady through my job who lost her job and was on welfare for four years. She ended up getting divorced b/c her husband was a heavy drinker. She had absolutely nothing. The state was offering a free ride to go to college for four years and she did it. She didn't have a pot to piss in during those four years but she came out and got a great job. This happened to her during the mid 80's, she now works for the state and says they can't offer the help like they use to be able to because there are just too many people on public assitance. It's really a shame. We are the wealthiest country in the world yet so many people are still struggling to get by.
Tux of Borg Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 BoardMember.com This is the problem. Kmart hired James Adamson as chairman at a salary of $1 million, a signing bonus of $2.5 million and a bonus of $2 million-$4 million that depends upon how fast Kmart emerges from bankruptcy. Adamson will also receive use of company aircraft, temporary housing, a car and driver, legal and financial advisor expenses and all taxes on the foregoing. United Airlines hired former Texaco executive Glenn Tilton as chairman, president and CEO. He will receive a salary of $950,000, a bonus equal to 100 percent of his base salary (subject to performance criteria), a signing bonus of $3 million and 1.15 million stock options, as well as an additional $4.5 million to make up for pension benefits he forfeited at Texaco. Adelphia hired former AT&T Broadband CEO William Schleyer at a salary of $1.275 million, a signing bonus of $1.7 million, annual target bonuses of 100 percent of his base salary, and an equity award of unrestricted shares worth $10.2 million guaranteed upon emergence from bankruptcy with a potential additional award of restricted shares worth $5.1 million based on exemplary performance. Adelphia also hired former AT&T Broadbent executive Ronald Cooper as president and COO at a salary of $850,000, a signing bonus of $1.13 million, annual target bonuses of 100 percent of his base salary, and an equity award of restricted shares worth $6.8 million guaranteed upon emergence from bankruptcy with a potential additional award of restricted shares worth $3.4 million based on exemplary performance.
VABills Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 BoardMember.com This is the problem. 183865[/snapback] Of course managers having to keep union employees around as they are nearly impossible to fire has nothing to do with it. The bad employees get away with being lazy, the good employees see it and it begins the downward spiral. But go ahead and continually blame management. I agree in a lot of cases management sucks and is the problem, but in just as many the employees and the unions are just as much or more to blame. Look at the NHL.
GG Posted December 30, 2004 Posted December 30, 2004 Well, we are talking about the non-union workers having to put in the free time, but you take this as an opportunity to rip into the unions. Do you know what kind of provisions the union workers have in their contracts for safety, and that none of these are up for elimination? Have you read through it and can you assure me that it this is pure greed on the union's part, but that the company has the best of intentions? Somehow we are supposed to hold the government accountable for wasteful spending and bureacracy but when a company does it, it's OK. It's the workers' fault. Just cut anything that makes it worth working for them, and the workers should just be so grateful to have a job that they lie down and take it. It's bull sh--. 183669[/snapback] Could the reason be that the union is complicit in the pending demise of USAir? Would you reason that the union may have been behind the "unusually high sick days" around a very busy Christmas holiday? The intentions of a company that's in bakrupcy is to survive to see the next day. While USAir is one of the worst run airlines, it has a binary outcome - rework the union contracts or die. It's nice to see the union speeding up one of the outcomes.
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