My Thoughts About

[atlbillsfan1975]

Disclaimer #1: Although I focus on blockers 10x more than the average person watching a football game, I am not trying to purport myself as an actual "expert."

 

Disclaimer #2: The only college team I spend a considerable amount of time watching is the Crimson Tide. I am basing the following comments ONLY on what I have seen on youtube. So, take them with a large grain of salt.

 

Now, the following comments are based upon Orlando Pace being the best LT I have ever seen in a lifetime of watching football. In other words, he is the model, perfect LT, or so I see it. And btw, my dear friend R.Rich thinks Ogden was better so there ya go.

 

1) Reiff

 

When Bulaga came out, I was on the phone with R.Rich telling him that Bulaga is a Right Tackle. Reiff, imo, is a potentially great GUARD. There are running plays where he even rolls out like one. He is game, and in good shape. Could he be a dominant LT? I suppose, but it's hard for me to see how. He uses his hands very well, but even with the wrestling background, I didn't see extrordinary agility. If he could play at a slightly above average level for 10 years, it would work out well for him, like it did for Jeff Backus. But again, I am missing where he will be a dominant LT.

 

2) Glenn:

 

If the Bills draft Glenn at 10, I will be supportive of the fact that they are finally devoting early draft resources to the OL. That said, I hope they steer clear of him. In college, huge, strong players such as Glenn, can at times dominate defenders. Mike Williams did. It's as if they engulf them. Not so easy in the NFL. Imo there had to be reasons why this kid was a guard until his senior season. I don't like his balance at all. And while he is strong enough to take down defenders from scrimage ala Pace, I can't see him being able to take it upfield (ala Pace). A frequent poster likened drafting Glenn to "swinging for the home run." He is correct. But there is a very long drop. I am not 100% convinced that Glenn will even be a very good RT. He looks like something of a plodder to me. And we already have 2 players (Pears and Hairston) who I think are more than enough for the RT position. I will go out on a limb and label Glenn a "poor man's Hairston." 3) Martin:

 

I am concerned that he benefitted from playing in front of a qb with a superb quick release (which Fitz has imo), and next to a top LG. And, I am not liking the 19 reps with 225. BUT, he is very agile. And his combine bench was more than twice what Bell did (19 vs. 9). I would like him to gain weight and get stronger. And I think that he can. The Stanford factor impresses me as well. He is a smart kid and hopefully will be easier to coach than Bell. Will he ever be as strong as Pace or Cordy Glenn? No. But his agility could elevate him to the status of Levi Lones (a #10 pick), or D'Brick imo. How bad is that?

 

So obviously, of the 3, my choice is Martin. Again, my opinion means little if anything, but I just thought that I would toss it out there.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First thank you as always for the breakdown.

 

But to say Glenn is a poor mans hairston is a bit misguided i think.

Give Glenn an entire mini camp and preseason, i bet he beats Hairston out. I just think he has way to much upside. No player coming out of college is compltely ready and with out struggles in the pro's. Personally, like you said Bill, if Buddy makes the pick i know its for good cause.

[thewildrabbit]

Agreed 100% on Glenn...Thing is, I REALLY doubt he's going to be 345 for long in the NFL...He's a massive dude...A mauler...He'll be massive at 315-325, only quicker...I definitely think that extra 20-35 is slowing him down a bit...But he ran 5.15 at 345...So think how much quicker he'll be when he's in NFL shape...

 

I absolutely think Glenn is Buddy's kind of guy...Whether or not he thinks Glenn is worthy of #10 overall I'm not so sure...We'll see I guess...

 

 

 

I'm thinking Martin is a Mid 2nd Round guy at best...He's got some issues...Not big and strong enough...Super smart...But he's kind of a tweener who is going to need at least a full year of NFL conditioning...I wonder if, down the road, he'll be better off moving inside to C...

I just don't get the dislike for Martin, he was a solid LT on a very potent offense. If anything he was only a tad weak against speed rushers. I highly doubt he makes it out of the mid first round, just not the 10th pick. Good OT's are almost as sought after as QB's

 

I have G David DeCastro rated ahead of Glenn, and only slightly behind OT Reiff. Glenn looks more like a RT then a LT particularly if he can't get that 345 weight down, he won't be able to handle speed rushers in the NFL on that left side.

 

So it looks like Reiff to me, unless Nix grows a pair and moves up to take Kalil....which is what I'm holding out hope for

[JohnC]

What a remarkable change of perspecitive for this organization compared to the prior regime. Under Nix a lot of attention has been given to upgrading both lines. On the offensive side of the ball Pears, Urbik, Rhinehart, Hairston were added over a two year period. There is a good probability that an OT or two will be added to the mix from this next draft.

 

Over the past two years five of the first six picks coming from the top three rounds were defensive players. Williams and Anderson were added to the roster from free agency.

 

There is a lot of components to building a roster. No team is not going to have some vulnerabilites because of the rationing of quality players caused by the cap. In fairly short order, two years, Nix has done a good job of overhauling a flawed roster with a flawed design, backside to front instead of frontside to back. It didn't take too long to transition from a light and quick to a bulkier and stronger emphasis on roster traits.

 

Are the Bills a playoff team this year? I still have some doubts. However, I am very encouraged that under Nix the Bills' organization is functioning as a first-rate organization with a thoughtful decision-making process that enables this former outlier franchise to be a mainstream franchise.

 

I don't want to look back and rehash old issues. But if the owner would have hired Nix instead of Levy this franchise would be so much more advanced. While Levy maintained his inherited mediocre front office staff Nix has dramatically changed the staffing of the front office. That was the key to the now more professionally run operation.

Edited April 15, 2012 by JohnC

[Dr. K]

Disclaimer #1: Although I focus on blockers 10x more than the average person watching a football game, I am not trying to purport myself as an actual "expert."

 

Disclaimer #2: The only college team I spend a considerable amount of time watching is the Crimson Tide. I am basing the following comments ONLY on what I have seen on youtube. So, take them with a large grain of salt.

 

Now, the following comments are based upon Orlando Pace being the best LT I have ever seen in a lifetime of watching football. In other words, he is the model, perfect LT, or so I see it. And btw, my dear friend R.Rich thinks Ogden was better so there ya go.

 

1) Reiff

 

When Bulaga came out, I was on the phone with R.Rich telling him that Bulaga is a Right Tackle. Reiff, imo, is a potentially great GUARD. There are running plays where he even rolls out like one. He is game, and in good shape. Could he be a dominant LT? I suppose, but it's hard for me to see how. He uses his hands very well, but even with the wrestling background, I didn't see extrordinary agility. If he could play at a slightly above average level for 10 years, it would work out well for him, like it did for Jeff Backus. But again, I am missing where he will be a dominant LT.

 

2) Glenn:

 

If the Bills draft Glenn at 10, I will be supportive of the fact that they are finally devoting early draft resources to the OL. That said, I hope they steer clear of him. In college, huge, strong players such as Glenn, can at times dominate defenders. Mike Williams did. It's as if they engulf them. Not so easy in the NFL. Imo there had to be reasons why this kid was a guard until his senior season. I don't like his balance at all. And while he is strong enough to take down defenders from scrimage ala Pace, I can't see him being able to take it upfield (ala Pace). A frequent poster likened drafting Glenn to "swinging for the home run." He is correct. But there is a very long drop. I am not 100% convinced that Glenn will even be a very good RT. He looks like something of a plodder to me. And we already have 2 players (Pears and Hairston) who I think are more than enough for the RT position. I will go out on a limb and label Glenn a "poor man's Hairston."

 

3) Martin:

 

I am concerned that he benefitted from playing in front of a qb with a superb quick release (which Fitz has imo), and next to a top LG. And, I am not liking the 19 reps with 225. BUT, he is very agile. And his combine bench was more than twice what Bell did (19 vs. 9). I would like him to gain weight and get stronger. And I think that he can. The Stanford factor impresses me as well. He is a smart kid and hopefully will be easier to coach than Bell. Will he ever be as strong as Pace or Cordy Glenn? No. But his agility could elevate him to the status of Levi Lones (a #10 pick), or D'Brick imo. How bad is that?

 

So obviously, of the 3, my choice is Martin. Again, my opinion means little if anything, but I just thought that I would toss it out there.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It's really weird, since you and I have had some real disagreements, but I also think Martin is the best choice (in a situation where there is no perfect one). And I have a feeling Nix likes him best, too.

[JohnC]

It's really weird, since you and I have had some real disagreements, but I also think Martin is the best choice (in a situation where there is no perfect one). And I have a feeling Nix likes him best, too.

 

Sometimes too much attention is placed on player limitations instead of asking the fundamental question as to whether a particular player can play his position well enough to be an asset to his unit. All three of the players being discussed are being dissected with intense attention given to what a player can't do well instead of what each can do well.

 

It is very likely that none of the three are going to be the caliber of player to match Jake Long or Joe Thomas. You are lucky to get one similar type of premium talent for that critical position in a draft year. It appears that only Kalis fits that special type caliber of player. There are a number of years in which that elite type of LT is not found. That doesn't mean that the Bills should shy away from taking a good prospect because they won't get an exceptional prospect.

 

Will any of these three prospects struggle if inserted into the starting lineup? Of course. It is a learning process. It is rare that a rookie LT has instant success. I'm confident that all three of these players are capable of doing a solid job and all are quality prospects who will get better as they get more playing time.

 

An intriguing aspect of the draft is not so much about evaluating the individual players so much as trying to gain an insight to the scouting philosophy of the GM and his staff and see how it relates to their view on roster building. There are different avenues to success. The key is to identify you philosophy and to consistently adhere to it when making personnel decisions.

Edited April 15, 2012 by JohnC

[San Jose Bills Fan]

What a remarkable change of perspecitive for this organization compared to the prior regime. Under Nix a lot of attention has been given to upgrading both lines. On the offensive side of the ball Pears, Urbik, Rhinehart, Hairston were added over a two year period.

They also have added Colin Brown and Sam Young.

 

The only holdover O-linemen from pre-Nix are Wood and Levitre.

 

Even at times when this franchise fielded winning teams, the fanbase here has always wanted a big, physical football team.

 

Finally this appears to be what is happening.

 

 

[ExWNYer]

Sometimes too much attention is placed on player limitations instead of asking the fundamental question as to whether a particular player can play his position well enough to be an asset to his unit. All three of the players being discussed are being dissected with intense attention given to what a player can't do well instead of what each can do well.

 

It is very unlikely that none of the three are going to be the caliber of player to match Jake Long or Joe Thomas. You are lucky to get one similar type of premium talent for that critical position in a draft year. It appears that only Kalis fits that special type caliber of player. There are a number of years in which that elite type of LT is not found. That doesn't mean that the Bills should shy away from taking a good prospect because they won't get an exceptional prospect.

 

Will any of these three prospects struggle if inserted into the starting lineup? Of course. It is a learning process. It is rare that a rookie LT has instant success. I'm confident that all three of these players are capable of doing a solid job and all are quality prospects who will get better as they get more playing time.

 

An intriguing aspect of the draft is not so much about evaluating the individual players so much as trying to gain an insight to the scouting philosophy of the GM and his staff and see how it relates to their view on roster building. There are different avenues to success. The key is to identify you philosophy and to consistently adhere to it when making personnel decisions.

This is more or less how I see this, too, John. It's unlikely that Buddy breaks character and trades up for Kalil. Unfortunately, for the Bills, there aren't more "sure fire" types at LT in a year that the position happens to be one of their top, if not top, priorities. That said, does he deem one of the remaining o-line prospects worthy of the 10th pick? To me, none of these guys will be great left tackles but it doesn't mean they won't be an upgrade for the Bills. I believe Nix would be okay with the thought that he ended up with a John Fina type. Certainly not great, but serviceable to above average. JMO

[Bill from NYC]

I believe Nix would be okay with the thought that he ended up with a John Fina type. Certainly not great, but serviceable to above average. JMO

 

I agree with the premise of your post, except the bolded. Fina was decent for a couple of years, and he fell apart. At 10, I would be thrilled if they obtained a LT with the productivity of Matt Light, who was a literal steal in round 2. A Brad Hopkins would be great too.

I would want a player who would be part of the foundation of this team for a decade.

[eball]

Good read. I'm no expert with respect to OL play but I've enjoyed reading various thoughts and analysis, all thanks to Bill's excellent post.

[ExWNYer]

I agree with the premise of your post, except the bolded. Fina was decent for a couple of years, and he fell apart. At 10, I would be thrilled if they obtained a LT with the productivity of Matt Light, who was a literal steal in round 2. A Brad Hopkins would be great too. I would want a player who would be part of the foundation of this team for a decade.

Decent is the point I was trying to make, Bill, not the falling apart part. I was trying to reference a former Buffalo tackle who was serviceable but not great. Outside of Kalil, any LT prospect they get may turn out to be just that. Decent and no more. Then again, they may uncover a diamond in the rough. In any event, there's no doubt that they'll be drafting someone to play LT and they need to figure out who and when to take him. That's what Buddy and his scouts are paid to do. Here's to hoping they make the right decision. Only time will tell...

[Astrobot]

A couple of other things about Cordy Glenn. I think he's the guy Nix is talking about when he says they see a couple guys differently than other teams.

 

--long arms

--incredible balance

--sits down into his block so bull rushes don't work

 

If you want an excellent summary of Glenn, I really respect Long Ball's opinion here: http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/4/10/2937556/dallas-cowboys-2012-draft-prospects-georgia-guard-tackle-cordy-glenn

 

--Astro

[JohnC]

I agree with the premise of your post, except the bolded. Fina was decent for a couple of years, and he fell apart. At 10, I would be thrilled if they obtained a LT with the productivity of Matt Light, who was a literal steal in round 2. A Brad Hopkins would be great too.

I would want a player who would be part of the foundation of this team for a decade.

 

If you have a qb who can make quick reads and has a tremendous feel and presence in the pocket then that will elevate the play of the OL. Brady and Manning are the best at making imperceptible moves that give them more time and space to make their throws. I'm certainly not claiming that Fitz is anywhere near the caliber that those two future HOFers are but Fitz does have the ability to make the quick read and release that will help the OL. If Fitz's accuracy matched his intelligence he would be ranked much higher among the qbs. My basic point is that the qb we currently have will give the draft prospects the ability to contribute righr away.

 

It's my opinion that if you are looking for an OT comparable to Matt Light then Reiff more than the others fits that mold.

Edited April 15, 2012 by JohnC

[Bill from NYC]

It's my opinion that if you are looking for an OT comparable to Matt Light then Reiff more than the others fits that mold.

 

You are making sense. The thing is I view the draft as a process to build a franchise for the long term. This is part of the reason why I detested the Spiller pick. Running backs, let alone small ones, don't last, but I digress.

 

Reiff, from where I sit, looks like a guard. And a great one. I think that we need a LT who is agile enough to fit into this new game they are playing, which involves passing way more than it used to. This would (again, imo) call for a very agile LT. Agility is the reason Bell was OK. He was weak, and I don't believe his listed size. He always seemed small to me.

I think (and hope) that if we draft Martin, he can gain weight and strength. He, out of the 3, looks like he has the potential to be a very good all around LT. But do read my disclaimers.

[Bflojohn]

The sheer beauty of this is the never ending analysis and how divergent it can be! I just received Ourlads Guide and they rank Kelechi Osemele as their 7th rated OT with the idea he can be a Left Tackle. The write-up is a real good one, and it left me with the thought that Buddy Nix' comment about 2nd to 4th rounders in this draft could start in the NFL next season, is valid. Conversely, Pro Football Weekly really hammers this player and suggests that he is gaurd material. Lindy's rates him as a gaurd only! The truth lies in the fact that no one really knows until they strap it on and the going gets rough. So Ourlads leads you to believe that Osemele can and will line up at OLT and the other side question this entire premise. Pick your poison folks!!

[CSBill]

Kalil might be great, but Pace was probably stronger than him when he was 18. Roids? I don't know, but Pace would knock the same defensive end down twice on the same play. He afforded Kurt Warner ALL DAY to throw in the superbowl win. I can't stress "all day" enough. And he came from the (in those days) bruising running program of Ohio State. He was a flat out monster.

His career was shorter than others, but I for one never saw a LT who could dominate like he did. And Rico, I couldn't agree more about Erik Williams. Bob Brown played longer than him, but when he was healthy, Erik Williams was the best RT ever.

 

I saw Orlando Pace play a state play-off basketball game when we was in high school = two slam dunks, one flat footed, straight up. Incredible quickness and agility for a man his size

[JohnC]

You are making sense. The thing is I view the draft as a process to build a franchise for the long term. This is part of the reason why I detested the Spiller pick. Running backs, let alone small ones, don't last, but I digress.

 

For the most part we are in accord on where the emphasis should be in constructing a roster, from the lines and then outward. Where I take a little different path from you is that my perspective is framed by a longer time frame than you have. The mistake I believe you are making with the Spiller selection is that you are too rigidly clinging to to your rebuilding philosophy (focusing on the lines first) and then addressing the perimeter positions. It is impossible and unwise to only draft your priority positions (the lines) because much more highly rated players will be on the board when you are making your picks.

 

If you review what has been done by Nix over the past two years you can't deny (unless you are insanely stubborn) that Nix has made re-making both lines a priority. Most of us, probably including you, believe that Nix is going to come out of this draft with at least a starting LT and also get another OT somewhere further down in the draft.

 

Reiff, from where I sit, looks like a guard. And a great one. I think that we need a LT who is agile enough to fit into this new game they are playing, which involves passing way more than it used to. This would (again, imo) call for a very agile LT. Agility is the reason Bell was OK. He was weak, and I don't believe his listed size. He always seemed small to me.

I think (and hope) that if we draft Martin, he can gain weight and strength. He, out of the 3, looks like he has the potential to be a very good all around LT. But do read my disclaimers.

 

As I stated in a prior post each of the three prospects have strengths and liabilities. Martin is probably the most athletic but on the deficit side hss the least strength and bulk. The deficiencies that you associated with Bell also appply to Martin. One dramatic difference is that Martin has extensively played in a big time program and is smarter from a football standpoint.

 

If Reiff is drafted and struggles with the LT position he can easily move to the inside or even the right tackle side. If Glenn is drafted and struggles with the LT position he can easily move to the inside or even the right takcle side. If Martin is drafted and struggles with the LT position he is not too well suited to play inside or the right tackle position.

 

Are you still sticking with your preference for Martin?

[Lofton80]

I have watched clips of all three and keep coming back to Cordy Glenn. Big and strong and played very well in the best conference in country. If Floyd is gone, I think he is Buddy's guy.