Go Big 4th round QB

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

Dude, I get it that we all have different opinions and different fans see differently about different players.

But your bias is on clear display in this one.

 

Criticize Fitz's deep throws, criticize the chances he's willing to take that lead to game-changing INTs, question his ability to be consist over a season

All legit points where the diff. is some fans say there's mitigating factors and room to improve and some say "you get what you get"

 

I haven't heard anyone knowledgeable about football imply Fitz doesn't understand how to QB or understand the game to the point of mastery, as you do when you say a rookie QB should just read a book instead.

 

WHAT YOU DO IS WHO YOU ARE. By making all those ill advised throws he shows by his performance alow football IQ. Thats' why I wouldn't be so hot on a rookie coming and learning from him... That's all. The reading a book is what I call sarcasm...

 

1) When a guy conceals his broken ribs all season you can tag him with a lot - poor play, yadda yadda. But with making excuses? This is beyond silly. Even his detractors concede Fitz is tough and he owns what he does - it's his QB skills they question

2) At any position - would no doubt be the reason two LTs we developed are now playing for the Iggles, SJ is starting, Kyle Williams went to the probowl, and Hairston is playing well. Clue: >5th round draft choices typically need development to play NFL.

3) Manning's ability to develop QB would be the reason Painter played so well? Oh, wait.

 

May the clue bird hold back his droppings as he circles over your head.

 

Or not.

[Rico]

This guy would be perfect to take in the fourth round. Big upside, confident, tall, strong, rocket arm. He can learn from Fitz.

Haven't seen much of him, but he appears to be statue-esque, I would have to say NO.just on general principle.

[Kelly the Dog]

Haven't seen much of him, but he appears to be statue-esque, I would have to say NO.just on general principle.

Not at all. Very mobile for a big guy. He doesn't mind standing in the pocket but can definitely move. He was recruited on a basketball scholarship to Gonzaga, so he is agile.

[billsfan89]

I would take him in the 6th or maybe 5th. But this team needs a lot of depth and in round 4 you can find guys who can add depth to the roster.

[Rico]

Not at all. Very mobile for a big guy. He doesn't mind standing in the pocket but can definitely move. He was recruited on a basketball scholarship to Gonzaga, so he is agile.

I will admit I was just looking at his physical stature, 6'8" 240 lbs sounds like Drew/Mallett to me. If he has pocket presence, I would give him a chance.

[Kelly the Dog]

I will admit I was just looking at his physical stature, 6'8" 240 lbs sounds like Drew/Mallett to me. If he has pocket presence, I would give him a chance.

Pocket presence to me he is middle of the road on. ASU ran such a strange offense that sometimes it was hard to get a read on him. He is not Mallet at all, but he is not blatantly good at feeling the rush either. I am of the opinion that the whole world changes when any of these QBs get to the NFL however and have to make decisions on that level at that speed with that complex an offense. Osweiller is definitely a project though, and not someone you can play this year, probably not even as a back-up (in the longer term, chance of your starter out for several games sense).

 

I see very little chance the Bills are going to draft him, simply because he is very likely gone in the second round and I doubt we spend a #2 on a project QB who has great size and skills but is far from a great bet.

[DefenseWinzChampionshipz]

Brock Osweiler won't even make it past round 2

 

Why? Where's he going?

[sllib olaffub]

Yeah - I wanted to say that when it comes to drafting a QB this year (and, IMO, you should always go for the better guys anyway) if we don't draft one by the second round, or trade up into the second round, we're getting a project guy who will maybe be backup material in a few years. That's a no-brainer. What I'm trying to say is guys like Weeden, Cousins, Osweiler - the talented guys who might be good NFL QB's in a year or two aren't going to make it to the 3rd, 4th, 5th rounds. If we want to get a QB who can play in the NFL, we've got to get him early.

 

So... is it worth it? I say trade back into the second round, or use the 2nd rounder we have and get the guy - just get a guy who can play, man, because we NEED one as insurance if Fitz goes down or falters. As it is now, if Fitz gets hurt we're done. Our season is wasted. Who wants to hang the whole season on one guys health? If it were Manning, or Brees, or an elite QB, you'd say, if he goes down we're not going to make it to the super bowl. That's understandable. But, if our QB goes down, with the backups we have, we're talking about UNWATCHABLE games here - and I don't want to sit through another season of that kind of frustratiuon.

 

We need some talent at that position - and I think we need it as badly as we need talent at the LT, WR, OLB position. Because, I'd say Hairston is about as good a LT as Fitz is a QB, but Levitre can play LT better than Thigpen showed he can play QB last year - and that is scary, man.

[Mr. WEO]

Dude, I get it that we all have different opinions and different fans see differently about different players.

But your bias is on clear display in this one.

 

Criticize Fitz's deep throws, criticize the chances he's willing to take that lead to game-changing INTs, question his ability to be consist over a season

All legit points where the diff. is some fans say there's mitigating factors and room to improve and some say "you get what you get"

 

I haven't heard anyone knowledgeable about football imply Fitz doesn't understand how to QB or understand the game to the point of mastery, as you do when you say a rookie QB should just read a book instead.

 

 

 

1) When a guy conceals his broken ribs all season you can tag him with a lot - poor play, yadda yadda. But with making excuses? This is beyond silly. Even his detractors concede Fitz is tough and he owns what he does - it's his QB skills they question

2) At any position - would no doubt be the reason two LTs we developed are now playing for the Iggles, SJ is starting, Kyle Williams went to the probowl, and Hairston is playing well. Clue: >5th round draft choices typically need development to play NFL.

3) Manning's ability to develop QB would be the reason Painter played so well? Oh, wait.

 

May the clue bird hold back his droppings as he circles over your head.

 

Or not.

 

You make a couple of good points. This whole idea of starting QBs mentoring or tutoring or whatever their replacement is pure fantasy. Your example of Manning is the best at destroying that nonsense. Manning is probably the most cerebral and serious student of the game in a generation, yet when he went down, his long time backup was simply inept and totally unprepared to play in that position. By all appearances, he learned nothing i all those years "being groomed by the master".

 

Also, clearly Fitz is the toughest guy on this team. Maybe the only true tough guy. But it's impossible for me to believe anyone on the staff did not know about his rib injury.

[Kelly the Dog]

You make a couple of good points. This whole idea of starting QBs mentoring or tutoring or whatever their replacement is pure fantasy. Your example of Manning is the best at destroying that nonsense. Manning is probably the most cerebral and serious student of the game in a generation, yet when he went down, his long time backup was simply inept and totally unprepared to play in that position. By all appearances, he learned nothing i all those years "being groomed by the master".

 

Also, clearly Fitz is the toughest guy on this team. Maybe the only true tough guy. But it's impossible for me to believe anyone on the staff did not know about his rib injury.

1] Totally agree on the mentoring part. I don't think these guys do it that much at all, and a lot of times they hate each other, especially if both are good or the back-up really wants to start. The QB coach is the guy who does all the mentoring. Sure, the starting QB will see a few things that only someone in the game can relay, but most guys would do that and it's a minor point of mentoring. I don't think back-ups learn much from the starters at all in comparison to what they learn from the QB coach, OC and from watching films with the coaches and on their own.

 

2] Not sure about the Fitz injury. They could probably see him wincing but that is about it. IMO, he never complained about it once, and whenever any coach asked him about it he said he was absolutely fine and could play. I think it affected him in a minor way in the games but was perhaps reason #5 or #6 why he was ineffective the last half of the season.

[John from Riverside]

A couple of things

 

- It was a long journey for Fitz to become the starter of this team and get that contract....I think that a. the injury abs. Hwolutely affected his accuracy and b. he was not going come off the field and risk getting benched by Thigpen's play (yeah I know that is ridiculous)

 

- Starting QBs dont mentor backups

- We do have Lee who is supposed to be a top QB mechanics coach.....so bringing in a developmental is not a bad idea at all

- Gailey is known for mentoring QBs

[Mr. WEO]

A couple of things

 

- It was a long journey for Fitz to become the starter of this team and get that contract....I think that a. the injury abs. Hwolutely affected his accuracy and b. he was not going come off the field and risk getting benched by Thigpen's play (yeah I know that is ridiculous)

 

- Starting QBs dont mentor backups

- We do have Lee who is supposed to be a top QB mechanics coach.....so bringing in a developmental is not a bad idea at all

- Gailey is known for mentoring QBs

Gailey is known for....mentoring QBs?? You mean Thigoen and Cordell Stewart?

[#34fan]

You make a couple of good points. This whole idea of starting QBs mentoring or tutoring or whatever their replacement is pure fantasy. Your example of Manning is the best at destroying that nonsense. Manning is probably the most cerebral and serious student of the game in a generation, yet when he went down, his long time backup was simply inept and totally unprepared to play in that position. By all appearances, he learned nothing i all those years "being groomed by the master".

 

Also, clearly Fitz is the toughest guy on this team. Maybe the only true tough guy. But it's impossible for me to believe anyone on the staff did not know about his rib injury.

 

I don't think it's beneficial to read too much into the Manning/Painter situation. On the one hand, you have a first round draft pick, and twelve-year starter, running an offense tailor-made to his specifications. On the other, you have a sixth round, clipboard-stand who in two years almost never saw the field. I disagree with the notion that Curtis Painter "learned nothing" from "all those" (2) years of watching the master. To the contrary, I think he learned something monumental.

 

Curtis Painter learned that there was no way, in, or outside of Hades, that he was EVER going to be that good. He learned his limitations as a passer. And Hopefully, he learned to keep his mouth shut while Peyton was talking.

 

That said, not all understudies are created equal. I have to believe that Steve Young took something away from his experience with Joe Montana. Aaron Rodgers, I believe benefitted from his exposure to Favre. -And Yah, Frank Reich got a little bit of oomph from Jim Kelly. We all learn differently. Some faster, and better than others. I think Personality, and circumstance can be the difference.

 

So, for example, if Peyton KNOWS in advance that part of his job description is mentoring, and grooming a young Osweiller, then why wouldn't he do it? I could understand if he was some 28 year-old stud in his prime, looking at domination for years down the road. That, however, isn't the case this time. This isn't just an opportunity for the Broncos to jump light years ahead as an organization. -This is an opportunity for perhaps the brightest of torches to be passed to the next generation. I seriously doubt that a guy like Elway would have signed the deal if that weren't somewhere in the cards.

Edited April 14, 2012 by #34fan

[Kelly the Dog]

I don't think it's beneficial to read too much into the Manning/Painter situation. On the one hand, you have a first round draft pick, and twelve-year starter, running an offense tailor-made to his specifications. On the other, you have a sixth round, clipboard-stand who in two years almost never saw the field. I disagree with the notion that Curtis Painter "learned nothing" from "all those" (2) years of watching the master. To the contrary, I think he learned something monumental.

 

Curtis Painter learned that there was no way, in, or outside of Hades, that he was EVER going to be that good. He learned his limitations as a passer. And Hopefully, he learned to keep his mouth shut while Peyton was talking.

 

That said, not all understudies are created equal. I have to believe that Steve Young took something away from his experience with Joe Montana. Aaron Rodgers, I believe benefitted from his exposure to Favre. -And Yah, Frank Reich got a little bit of oomph from Jim Kelly. We all learn differently. Some faster, and better than others. I think Personality, and circumstance can be the difference.

 

So, for example, if Peyton KNOWS in advance that part of his job description is mentoring, and grooming a young Osweiller, then why wouldn't he do it? I could understand if he was some 28 year-old stud in his prime, looking at domination for years down the road. That, however, isn't the case this time. This isn't just an opportunity for the Broncos to jump light years ahead as an organization. -This is an opportunity for perhaps the brightest of torches to be passed to the next generation. I seriously doubt that a guy like Elway would have signed the deal if that weren't somewhere in the cards.

From everything I know and read, Kelly probably learned more from Reich than Reich from Kelly.

 

Young has admitted that he and Montana didn't like each other at all and barely spoke. I've recently read that Favre never helped Rodgers.

[CSBill]

Oh, HAIL no!

 

Wtf is he going to learn from Fitz? -How to make excuses? No thanks. Osweiller is a great kid, but he's a real project and the Bills aren't exactly known for their player development. -At any position. In short, it would be a waste of everyone's time.

 

Denver is a much better Fit for Big Brock IMO. Manning is the best possible QB to learn from, and he probably won't be there for too long of a time. The kid could have a chance at starter in a couple of years.

 

Wow?

 

And yeah! Payton Manning has been all about helping develop other guys, like he did with . . . . . . ah? . . . . . . ah? . . . . .

[#34fan]

From everything I know and read, Kelly probably learned more from Reich than Reich from Kelly.

 

Young has admitted that he and Montana didn't like each other at all and barely spoke. I've recently read that Favre never helped Rodgers.

 

I learn things from people I don't even know ALL THE TIME. I also learn alot from people I don't like.

 

Let's not limit learning to the strict confines of a teacher-student relationship.

 

Learning can be as simple as paying attention, and taking note of significant things. complete strangers, and competing personalities share info on TBD constantly.

 

Wow?

 

And yeah! Payton Manning has been all about helping develop other guys, like he did with . . . . . . ah? . . . . . . ah? . . . . .

 

As I said before.....

 

I don't think it's beneficial to read too much into the Manning/Painter situation. On the one hand, you have a first round draft pick, and twelve-year starter, running an offense tailor-made to his specifications. On the other, you have a sixth round, clipboard-stand who in two years almost never saw the field. I disagree with the notion that Curtis Painter "learned nothing" from "all those" (2) years of watching the master. To the contrary, I think he learned something monumental.

 

Curtis Painter learned that there was no way, in, or outside of Hades, that he was EVER going to be that good. He learned his limitations as a passer. And Hopefully, he learned to keep his mouth shut while Peyton was talking.

Edited April 14, 2012 by #34fan

[atlbillsfan1975]

I learn things from people I don't even know ALL THE TIME. I also learn alot from people I don't like.

 

Let's not limit learning to the strict confines of a teacher-student relationship.

 

Learning can be as simple as paying attention, and taking note of significant things.

I agree with that whole heartedly.

 

if you think Rodgers didn't learn anything from Favre your kidding yourself.

 

I also do not really know much about Ostweiller, but just watching his interview with Gruden, i didn't like the kid. he seems to think a lot of himself, kinda screamed a Ryan Leaf to me. Like i said, do not know anything about him but what i saw in a five minute spot on ESPN.

Edited April 14, 2012 by atlbillsfan1975

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Manning has a close relationship with Jim Sorgi and Sorgi was a pretty decent backup for awhile.

 

FWIW.

[Kelly the Dog]

I learn things from people I don't even know ALL THE TIME. I also learn alot from people I don't like.

 

Let's not limit learning to the strict confines of a teacher-student relationship.

 

Learning can be as simple as paying attention, and taking note of significant things. complete strangers, and competing personalities share info on TBD constantly.

I agree with all of that. But that only means you can learn more from just watching film of other QBs and defenses and talking to coaches than you can from the guy in front of you.

 

Put it this way, do you really think there is a direct correlation to all the best QBs in the league and in league history, and the growth patterns of their back-ups? I would doubt it and bet against it. I see no correlation whatsoevr just paying attention, and taking note of significant things.

[#34fan]

I agree with all of that. But that only means you can learn more from just watching film of other QBs and defenses and talking to coaches than you can from the guy in front of you.

 

Put it this way, do you really think there is a direct correlation to all the best QBs in the league and in league history, and the growth patterns of their back-ups? I would doubt it and bet against it. I see no correlation whatsoevr just paying attention, and taking note of significant things.

 

Big difference between hiring a backup, and grooming a young QB to someday take over the reigns. I dunno about you, but I wouldn't waste a second rounder on a backup.

 

A kid like Osweiller, for example, is a project, but his size, and athleticism give him a tremendous upside. In Denver's situation, you take a kid like that with the understanding that Manning's days are numbered, and someday soon Osweiller will be THE GUY. Otherwise, what's the justification for taking a project in the second?

 

If we took Osweiller in the 2nd, believe me, it'd be with that same understanding. You'd basically be drafting Fitzpatrick's replacement. My contention is that given the scale of the Osweiller project, combined with the Bill's QB, coaching, and management situation, -Big Brock would be MUCH better off in Denver, getting feedback, and gleaning whatever he can from two of the best to ever do it. Big Brock is a big project. Our recent history with young quarterbacks leaves much to be desired.

Edited April 15, 2012 by #34fan