eball Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 I'm worried that bills fans are forgetting how awful our run defense is. It seems like everyone is assuming our entire D is going to get better because of Mario and Anderson. I'm actually very worried that teams are going to be able to run it down our throats next year. That is the main reason why I want Kuechly on this team. Seriously? Kyle Williams is back and presumably healthy. Dareus is in his 2nd year. Shep is now a 2nd year guy. And yes, the addition of two stellar pass rushers absolutely does have an impact on run defense. If you REALLY want Keuchly, it ain't because he'll make the run defense better. As stated all over this thread, if he has #10 pick qualifications it's that he can deal with RBs and TEs in pass coverage better than anyone else out there.
Rico Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 I've been racking my brain trying to think who would be a useful comparison in the NFL to Kuechly...I'm thinking maybe Sean Lee in Dallas...He's a VERY good player overall...My friends who are Cowboys Fans love that Kid...Totally different Defensive scheme though... I don't think Sean Lee went in the top #10 overall.
Billsrhody Posted April 20, 2012 Author Posted April 20, 2012 Seriously? Kyle Williams is back and presumably healthy. Dareus is in his 2nd year. Shep is now a 2nd year guy. And yes, the addition of two stellar pass rushers absolutely does have an impact on run defense. If you REALLY want Keuchly, it ain't because he'll make the run defense better. As stated all over this thread, if he has #10 pick qualifications it's that he can deal with RBs and TEs in pass coverage better than anyone else out there. Kyle Willams has not proved himself as a good run defender.. we were in the bottom 3 teams in run defense the 2 years prior to Dareus. I do agree that with both of them in the middle, it should be improved, but I still our run defense will be in the bottom 3rd of the league. No offense but I dont think you can tell me why I want Kuechly. I personally hate watching running backs like reggie bush gouge us for 12 yd gains. Teams average over 5 yards per carry against us. I dont care how good your pass D is, you cant win in the NFL like that. Kuechly has phenomenal tackling instincts and I think he'll instantly upgrade our run defense. I do think his coverage ability is valuable, I just like like what he brings to the running game more.
jjmac Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 You most have missed all my other discussions on him . I've been talking about him for 2 years now even when some thought he going back to WR and not real QB but He just has something special. I had him as my number one for quite some time but took him on and off now then when I thought he wouldn't be unavailable, and I just took him off 2 days ago when it seems pretty clear that we don't have a shot at him so I went with the BPA who could start right away and fits our system and that is Kuechly. I think Gilmore could also start right away, but I would prefer Kuechly.
eball Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 Kyle Willams has not proved himself as a good run defender.. we were in the bottom 3 teams in run defense the 2 years prior to Dareus. I do agree that with both of them in the middle, it should be improved, but I still our run defense will be in the bottom 3rd of the league. No offense but I dont think you can tell me why I want Kuechly. I personally hate watching running backs like reggie bush gouge us for 12 yd gains. Teams average over 5 yards per carry against us. I dont care how good your pass D is, you cant win in the NFL like that. Kuechly has phenomenal tackling instincts and I think he'll instantly upgrade our run defense. I do think his coverage ability is valuable, I just like like what he brings to the running game more. We can agree to disagree, but I think you take an overly simplistic view of how a defense "works." The Bills of the last several years have not had enough talent across the board on defense. One or two really good players can't do it alone. That means they had to use some players in ways they would not ordinarily be used, which exposes weaknesses. For the first time in a long time, the Bills, on paper, can line up with a four-man front that doesn't need assistance from blitzing LBs or DBs to try and get pressure on a QB. What does that mean? It means the LBs can focus on stopping the run. It's complicated, but also simple.
Cash Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 I'm worried that bills fans are forgetting how awful our run defense is. It seems like everyone is assuming our entire D is going to get better because of Mario and Anderson. I'm actually very worried that teams are going to be able to run it down our throats next year. That is the main reason why I want Kuechly on this team. Seriously? Kyle Williams is back and presumably healthy. Dareus is in his 2nd year. Shep is now a 2nd year guy. And yes, the addition of two stellar pass rushers absolutely does have an impact on run defense.If you REALLY want Keuchly, it ain't because he'll make the run defense better. As stated all over this thread, if he has #10 pick qualifications it's that he can deal with RBs and TEs in pass coverage better than anyone else out there. I think a major, major, MAJOR difference will be the DC and scheme. We actually weren't that bad defending the run up the middle last year. The big problem was cutbacks and outside runs. Why? A few reasons, but the biggest one was that a 300 lb. DT/DE hybrid was lined up at OLB and tasked with containing outside runs. That won't be happening any more next year. That's one example that I could tell just from watching games live. I'm sure there were a bunch more problems that couldn't be known for sure without knowing the playbook/playcalls, watching practice, or watching film.
Billsrhody Posted April 20, 2012 Author Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) We can agree to disagree, but I think you take an overly simplistic view of how a defense "works." The Bills of the last several years have not had enough talent across the board on defense. One or two really good players can't do it alone. That means they had to use some players in ways they would not ordinarily be used, which exposes weaknesses. For the first time in a long time, the Bills, on paper, can line up with a four-man front that doesn't need assistance from blitzing LBs or DBs to try and get pressure on a QB. What does that mean? It means the LBs can focus on stopping the run. It's complicated, but also simple. I just don't think the addition of 1 player changes our run defense from bad to good. Mario will be an improvement, but Mark Anderson is not going to be an upgrade against the run. I'd like to add another good run defender in Kuechly, which will further improve the run defense. I'm not really sure what you're trying to argue here.. I think we both agree that the addition of Kuechly will help the run defense. I just happen to think that you need to be able to stop the run to win in this league. Maybe you think otherwise. Edited April 20, 2012 by Billsrhody
TC in St. Louis Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 Bring him in. People will fear us. And that is a good thing.
KOKBILLS Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 I don't think Sean Lee went in the top #10 overall. True my Friend...And I knew somebody would mention that... But he has turned into a VERY good NFL LB...An excellent cover LB...And obviously he would go higher if that Draft was done over again...Would he be Top 10? Well...Tyson Alualu went #10 in 2010...And we all know who went #9...So...I'll let everyone make their own decision there...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 That comparison is silly. Miller was drafted as a pass rush guy, period. ILBs are valued significantly less than 3-4 rush backers... Miller is not a 34 OLB he is a 43 OLB which denver uses they just like to blitz him a lot unlike we will do (although I wish we had more of an attacking scheme). Its Brian Urlacher. If you take Kuechly at #10, you're taking him to be the QB of your Defense. I don't understand why you take the #10 overall pick then put him in a position where he is jogging with TEs all day. Cuz TEs have been Killing us for years, he can still QB the D they don't have to be in the middle. I'm worried that bills fans are forgetting how awful our run defense is. It seems like everyone is assuming our entire D is going to get better because of Mario and Anderson. I'm actually very worried that teams are going to be able to run it down our throats next year. That is the main reason why I want Kuechly on this team. Well hopefully with Darius and Kyle both in the middle that will improve.
eball Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 I just don't think the addition of 1 player changes our run defense from bad to good. Mario will be an improvement, but Mark Anderson is not going to be an upgrade against the run. I'd like to add another good run defender in Kuechly, which will further improve the run defense. I'm not really sure what you're trying to argue here.. I think we both agree that the addition of Kuechly will help the run defense. I just happen to think that you need to be able to stop the run to win in this league. Maybe you think otherwise. I'm "arguing" that your premise is flawed -- i.e., the run defense will suck unless we get Keuchly. I believe the run defense will already be greatly improved, with or without him, and (in my opinion) if he is brought in at #10 it won't be because Nix is trying to beef up the run defense -- it will be because he is a three-down LB who can cover the TEs and RBs running pass routes, he's versatile enough to play all three LB positions, and he's a tackling machine.
1B4IDie Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Miller is not a 34 OLB he is a 43 OLB which denver uses they just like to blitz him a lot unlike we will do (although I wish we had more of an attacking scheme). Cuz TEs have been Killing us for years, he can still QB the D they don't have to be in the middle. Well hopefully with Darius and Kyle both in the middle that will improve. Luke Kulchey is 6'3" 242 Rob Gronkowski is 6'6" 265. Rob is still open with Luke standing right next to him. You think Brady isn't going to throw to Hernandez or Gronk because a little rookie LB is running in their vicinity? Edited April 20, 2012 by Why So Serious?
Billsrhody Posted April 20, 2012 Author Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) I'm "arguing" that your premise is flawed -- i.e., the run defense will suck unless we get Keuchly. I believe the run defense will already be greatly improved, with or without him, and (in my opinion) if he is brought in at #10 it won't be because Nix is trying to beef up the run defense -- it will be because he is a three-down LB who can cover the TEs and RBs running pass routes, he's versatile enough to play all three LB positions, and he's a tackling machine. Obviously if he's drafting a LB at #10 then he's drafting him because he believes he'll improve the entire defense. I never speculated why Nix would draft him, I said why I would draft him. You're making an argument out of nothing. Luke Kulchey is 6'3" 242 Rob Gronkowski is 6'6" 265. Rob is still open with Luke standing right next to him. Grownkowski is open with anyone standing next to him. The truth is, no one can cover him 1 on 1. Edited April 20, 2012 by Billsrhody
1B4IDie Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 Obviously if he's drafting a LB at #10 then he's drafting him because he believe he'll improve the entire defense. I never speculated why Nix would draft him, I said why I would draft him. You're making an argument out of nothing. Grownkowski is open with anyone standing next to him. The truth is, no one can cover him 1 on 1. Exactly, so drafting Kuechly in the hopes he stops the new wave of large uncover able TEs, isn't realistic. Again I'm not saying he isn't going to be a good NFL player. Some people think he is going to be a "Shutdown LB" for TEs That just doesn't make sense to me.
KOKBILLS Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 You think Brady isn't going to throw to Hernandez or Gronk because a little rookie LB is running in their vicinity? Well...No one is saying Brady is going to be shaking in his shoes or anything like that...But that being said...I'm guessing Kuechly is going to be better than any other LB the Bills have tried in that capacity...Otherwise they're not going to take him at #10 overall... Seriously though...Like Kuechly could not help in this area? You think he would be worse than what we've seen to this point?
Russ 'Em Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 We can agree to disagree, but I think you take an overly simplistic view of how a defense "works." The Bills of the last several years have not had enough talent across the board on defense. One or two really good players can't do it alone. That means they had to use some players in ways they would not ordinarily be used, which exposes weaknesses. For the first time in a long time, the Bills, on paper, can line up with a four-man front that doesn't need assistance from blitzing LBs or DBs to try and get pressure on a QB. What does that mean? It means the LBs can focus on stopping the run. It's complicated, but also simple. Luke Kulchey is 6'3" 242 Rob Gronkowski is 6'6" 265. Rob is still open with Luke standing right next to him. You think Brady isn't going to throw to Hernandez or Gronk because a little rookie LB is running in their vicinity? This is some flawed thinking. If you think just because he is 20 pounds heavier and 2" taller, that he is automatically open, then you've never played sports. Do you think that if he was standing next to Mario Williams 6'6" 292, that he is automatically covered? No way he has a chance to catch a ball, shut it down.
1B4IDie Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Well...No one is saying Brady is going to be shaking in his shoes or anything like that...But that being said...I'm guessing Kuechly is going to be better than any other LB the Bills have tried in that capacity...Otherwise they're not going to take him at #10 overall... Seriously though...Like Kuechly could not help in this area? You think he would be worse than what we've seen to this point? I actually think Bryan Scott is a good fit for the role of being the TE shadow, i'm not sure you're getting an immediate upgrade over who we have on the roster today for that specific task. All around though obviously Luke Kuechly is probably a much better long term solution than Bryan Scott. The point still being. Luke Kuechly isn't likely going to come in and be the "Showdown LB" for TE coverage that people seem to continuously bring up. This is some flawed thinking. If you think just because he is 20 pounds heavier and 2" taller, that he is automatically open, then you've never played sports. Do you think that if he was standing next to Mario Williams 6'6" 292, that he is automatically covered? No way he has a chance to catch a ball, shut it down. It is not flawed thinking at all. I have played sports. Size is not the only factor but is a factor. Have you seen Rob Gronkowski play football? Have you spoken English for very long? I don't understand your last sentence. Edited April 20, 2012 by Why So Serious?
Buffaloed in Pa Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 Exactly. Just like this Buffaloed in Pa guy comparing him to Poz. Why? Most likely because he is white, that's why. Poz couldn't carry his jock. Not saying I didn`t like Poz. Because I did. I just like hightower better. He gets in the backfield. He Blitzs up the gut bigtime. That little bit of forty time difference does not bother me at all.I like Hightower alot better than Sheppard. I watched every game Sheppard played last year and he was not good. Slow ,didn`t shed blocks ,didn`t fill the hole. Like some experts said before the draft last about Sheppard ..good backup . Trade down pickup Hightower. I would not be mad at the Kuechly pick though. It`s going to be Kuechly, Happy Gilmore or Floyd. I would be happy with any of these.
3rdand12 Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 A factor for this talk is Sheppard. We watched him play closer than the pundits maybe. I thought he struggled alot but has promise of a much higher ceiling long term. I still consider him a run stop guy. I imagine his skillset will improve greatly, kind of how Byrd became one hell of a tackler after being such a ball hawk, Shepp is smart enough to get much better at coverage. I am still of the opinion that we should draft Barnetts apprentice and Kirk's too. But i dont feel that we have a decent backup to any of our three starters and Kuechly fits the bill. Is that worth a ten? He is a three down back by all reports so that means he can come in for all/any LB positions on any down nearly. Is that worth a ten? it sure gets him closer to a good value. all the write ups about Shepp from outside sources are high on him and we think Buddy is too. Who would Luke compete with for starting position because at Ten he MUST start mustn't he? i want to watch Morrrison play a season personally and i have a crush on Nick so?
jjmac Posted April 21, 2012 Posted April 21, 2012 Exactly, so drafting Kuechly in the hopes he stops the new wave of large uncover able TEs, isn't realistic. Again I'm not saying he isn't going to be a good NFL player. Some people think he is going to be a "Shutdown LB" for TEs That just doesn't make sense to me. Mario Williams and Mark Anderson might have some input on that.
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