Marv's Neighbor Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 The guy's a fraud and a BS'er! That's how we ended up with him, he BS'd Ol'Whitey with all his dazling "plans." Now he'll have a lot of time to sit home and gaze at his "Forward Lateral" picture and remember the bad old days!
dave mcbride Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 (edited) I think that many NFL fans are living in a dream world. What Williams said was categorically criminal, but the larger issue is football itself. I strongly suspect that we're about to see a wave of lawsuits (starting at the high school level) that will last for years and which will cripple the sport. I don't know a soul who will let their kids play football anymore given what has come out about concussions. When this story disseminates (and it will), the effect will be significant. I love Buffalo and the Bills, but I wouldn't let my 12 year old play the game even though I always thought I would when he was little. And it's not as if he's a lousy athlete -- he's the best qb in his (large) flag league and one of the better 12 year old pitchers in the entire borough of Brooklyn. He's 5'8" with a 64 mph fastball and great breaking stuff. He's essentally tailor made for HS football but he'll have none of it eventhough he suffers through every Bills game with me. He just listened to the Williams tape and couldn't believe what he heard. Savagery. Every other sports parent I know essentially thinks the same as I do even though most of them are NFL fans. Edited April 6, 2012 by dave mcbride
NoSaint Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 I think that many NFL fans are living in a dream world. What Williams said was categorically criminal, but the larger issue is football itself. I strongly suspect that we're about to see a wave of lawsuits (starting at the high school level) that will last for years and which will cripple the sport. I don't know a soul who will let their kids play football anymore given what has come out about concussions. When this story disseminates (and it will), the effect will be significant. I love Buffalo and the Bills, but I wouldn't let my 12 year old play the game even though I always thought I would when he was little. And it's not as if he's a lousy athlete -- he's the best qb in his (large) flag league and one of the better 12 year old pitchers in the entire borough of Brooklyn. Every other sports parent I know essentially thinks the same as I do even though most of them are NFL fans. Agreed - in 5-10 years we will likely start seeing drafts getting a bit shallower. Talented kids will funnel to other sports. Not wholesale, but it will happen.
dave mcbride Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 Agreed - in 5-10 years we will likely start seeing drafts getting a bit shallower. Talented kids will funnel to other sports. Not wholesale, but it will happen. Yep. Future Elways are going to choose baseball, not football.
NobesBLO13 Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 Yep. Future Elways are going to choose baseball, not football. Or...Dare I say? SOCCER!
Lurker Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was, you know, important -Dick Butkus Pro football is like nuclear warfare. There are no winners, only survivors. -- Frank Gifford
Jim in Anchorage Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 Agreed - in 5-10 years we will likely start seeing drafts getting a bit shallower. Talented kids will funnel to other sports. Not wholesale, but it will happen. Yeah, 14 year olds will worry about their health 30 years down the road
NoSaint Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 (edited) Yeah, 14 year olds will worry about their health 30 years down the road I was getting at mom and dad pulling the plug on more careers than normal. Not drastic like pick 34 will now go first but say 5-10% of parents start vetoing Johnny's idea to play football, odds are a few of those guys could have been real players. Next maybe little Fred is debating which scholarship to take - football or baseball - maybe baseball sounds better with, you know, people not trying to tear your acl and concuss you. Record nfl dollars might help counteract that. It's normal to see some shifts when dollars change, controversy happens etc... And back to Gregg - Tim hasslebeck tweeted every team he's been on had coaches instruct who had what injuries to target Edited April 6, 2012 by NoSaint
Jim in Anchorage Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 I was getting at mom and dad pulling the plug on more careers than normal. Not drastic like pick 34 will now go first but say 5-10% of parents start vetoing Johnny's idea to play football, odds are a few of those guys could have been real players. Next maybe little Fred is debating which scholarship to take - football or baseball - maybe baseball sounds better with, you know, people not trying to tear your acl and concuss you. Record nfl dollars might help counteract that. It's normal to see some shifts when dollars change, controversy happens etc... I dunno. I have know a few hockey dads and as soon as their son scores a pee-wee goal he's NHL material, concussions be damned. Not to say all parents are like that, but many are.
NoSaint Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 I dunno. I have know a few hockey dads and as soon as their son scores a pee-wee goal he's NHL material, concussions be damned. Not to say all parents are like that, but many are. No doubt. But I bet there are plenty at the other end that this issue tugs at. If it happens to even a small percentage the talent pool will drop a small amount. I'm not saying it will effect fanatic parents, but I'd bet a good percentage of middle America struggles with the debate of is it worth it to let their sons put on helmets for highschool ball even before audio like this hits the conversation. Look at the shock here, on a football board. Imagine what your average mom thinks hearing that. 7 year old Johnny's getting a baseball mitt instead of a football for Xmas this year, and his big brother is being pushed to give soccer a shot in highschool. Not every home, but more than this time 2 years ago
Jim in Anchorage Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 No doubt. But I bet there are plenty at the other end that this issue tugs at. If it happens to even a small percentage the talent pool will drop a small amount. I'm not saying it will effect fanatic parents, but I'd bet a good percentage of middle America struggles with the debate of is it worth it to let their sons put on helmets for highschool ball even before audio like this hits the conversation. Look at the shock here, on a football board. Imagine what your average mom thinks hearing that. 7 year old Johnny's getting a baseball mitt instead of a football for Xmas this year, and his big brother is being pushed to give soccer a shot in highschool. Not every home, but more than this time 2 years ago I doubt if the average mom hears about it. We know because we follow football. It is not going to be on the cover of people magazine. In fact it will be a dead issue the day after tomorrow when there is no breaking news, even with football fans. The Pats* cleats being 1/8 inch oversized will grab the headlines, and this will be forgotten.
flomoe Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 (edited) I am sure not everyone agrees with me on this but Gregg Williams is a scapegoat. I would love to hear someone defend Payton on this. He is such a model coach that he allowed whatever infranctions to occur under his watch as HEAD COACH and didn't have a hand in it!!! I would love a Saints fan to defend the "coach" and realisticly admit that Payton wasn't involved in encouraging his players to be aggresive. This is the fault of the NFL and if anyone is at fault, it's the players that played the game aggessively just to try and show off. The NFL is somehow trying to turn the game into something soft and the simpletins that follow the game have no clue how soft Goddell is trying to make the league. Roger Goddell should be fired by the owners strictley because of the "witch hunt" he is conducting on Williams. I am sure that Williams isn't the only coach in the NFL that had a pre-game speach that encouraged his players to be aggresive. I would love for someone to support Payton with this. In my eyes, Payton is the pussyass that blew in his former assistant just to keep his "guaranteed salary" next year without taking a banned for life penalty that he should get for being the kitty coach that he is. Edited April 6, 2012 by flomoe
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 I am sure not everyone agrees with me on this but Gregg Williams is a scapegoat. I would love to hear someone defend Payton on this. He is such a model coach that he allowed whatever infranctions to occur under his watch as HEAD COACH and didn't have a hand in it!!! I would love a Saints fan to defend the "coach" and realisticly admit that Payton wasn't involved in encouraging his players to be aggresive. This is the fault of the NFL and if anyone is at fault, it's the players that played the game aggessively just to try and show off. The NFL is somehow trying to turn the game into something soft and the simpletins that follow the game have no clue how soft Goddell is trying to make the league. Roger Goddell should be fired by the owners strictley because of the "witch hunt" he is conducting on Williams. I am sure that Williams isn't the only coach in the NFL that had a pre-game speach that encouraged his players to be aggresive. I would love for someone to support Payton with this. In my eyes, Payton is the pussyass that blew in his former assistant just to keep his "guaranteed salary" next year without taking a banned for life penalty that he should get for being the kitty coach that he is. And you edited this? Eme, you are officially off the hook.
flomoe Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 (edited) And you edited this? Eme, you are officially off the hook. All I am trying to say here is there is no way Payton didn't have a hand in this. If there is an underling out there that has some sort of power over their superiors, we would all love to hear it. There is no way in HELL that Williams did what he "supposedly" did without the Head Coach and any other assistants knowing about it. This sort of "behavior" has been going on in the NFL for years and NOW it's an issue???? There is something else going on here that isn't on the surface but has been trickling down the pike for a while now. FLAG FOOTBALL IN THE FUTUE. Just kidding but who knows! Edited April 6, 2012 by flomoe
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 All I am trying to say here is there is no way Payton didn't have a hand in this. If there is an underling out there that has some sort of power over their superiors, we would all love to hear it. There is no way in HELL that Williams did what he "supposedly" did without the Head Coach and any other assistants knowing about it. This sort of "behavior" has been going on in the NFL for years and NOW it's an issue???? There is something else going on here that isn't on the surface but has been trickling down the pike for a while now. FLAG FOOTBALL IN THE FUTUE. Just kidding but who knows! There's plenty of blame to go around. Williams has a history of doing bounties before he got to New Orleans although he seemed to have raised it to a higher level with the Saints. It's impossible for me to believe that Payton didn't know about this and I find it hard to believe that Benson didn't know about it… certainly he did after the initial investigation when the Saints were trying to get their stories straight and deny everything. One area I disagree with you is the players part in this. You seemed to give the players the largest amount of blame. On my blame list, I have the players lowest. Many of them are young men who are not fully developed in their judgement. Most of them will go along with what a coach says for fear of losing their jobs. They can be blamed but they didn't institute the system and they were just "following orders" which contrary to the Nuremberg judgement, is in some cases a legit explanation for going along with things, IMO. Where you really lost me was all that stuff about a "witch hunt" and Goodell ruining the game. Football is extremely violent and I have zero problems with his attempts to clean up the game. I don't need gratuitous violence… I don't watch auto racing for the crashes. And practically speaking Goodell has no choice. If he doesn't clean up the game, someone else will… or else the game will cease to exist.
ganesh Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 Roger Goddell should be fired by the owners strictley because of the "witch hunt" he is conducting on Williams. I am sure that Williams isn't the only coach in the NFL that had a pre-game speach that encouraged his players to be aggresive. I would love for someone to support Payton with this. This is the most insane comment I have seen. Williams is not asking his players to be aggressive. He is asking them to deliberately INJURE opponents by striking their heads and tearing their ACLs. Big difference!. Williams and the NFL may be in great trouble here. I definitely can see a Congressional hearing on this and multiple lawsuits from other players.
NoSaint Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 (edited) I doubt if the average mom hears about it. We know because we follow football. It is not going to be on the cover of people magazine. In fact it will be a dead issue the day after tomorrow when there is no breaking news, even with football fans. The Pats* cleats being 1/8 inch oversized will grab the headlines, and this will be forgotten. Maybe I'm wrong but I've heard about it from non-football fans. It's hard for me to grasp how the news has broken nationally though, being in new orleans. Every news source carried it heavily, everyone knows, and my family back home pays little closer attention to Nola news- but I know when I called my parents, my mom in fact heard the tape but knew almost none of the context beyond they paid for injuries and the coach is nuts, which is worst case scenario for what I was discussing. All it takes is a small handful to put their foot down and maybe the next RG3 goes to track or drew brees sticks with the baseball scholarship. Again, I'm not saying its going to be sweeping and collapse the nfl but I do think you'll lose a few kids early from parents not allowing this dangerous brain damaging sport, and a few at the college crossroad that might decide they want to walk and talk when it's all over. While you get the ex-players disgusted by the acl comment, I think fans, amateurs, and family members are very much concerned about brains these days and they are starting to get stats to back it up unemotionally, and now this helps add to the other emotional half of the argument. Odds are you'll never really notice the difference, but I bet if you follow youth enrollment in football, it'll have a blip down the next few years with the "cash for cripplings" and lawsuits for brain damage hitting CNN instead of just espn Edited April 6, 2012 by NoSaint
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 Yeah, 14 year olds will worry about their health 30 years down the road 14 year olds aren't paying the team fees and driving themselves to practice. I doubt if the average mom hears about it. We know because we follow football. It is not going to be on the cover of people magazine. In fact it will be a dead issue the day after tomorrow when there is no breaking news, even with football fans. The Pats* cleats being 1/8 inch oversized will grab the headlines, and this will be forgotten. The news about Williams will dry up and blow away. The news about the long-term health impact of repeated head blows is only getting started. This is the most insane comment I have seen. Williams is not asking his players to be aggressive. He is asking them to deliberately INJURE opponents by striking their heads and tearing their ACLs. Big difference!. Williams and the NFL may be in great trouble here. I definitely can see a Congressional hearing on this and multiple lawsuits from other players. This. All the former HS ballers I know tell me they were coached to be beasts from the snap to the whistle. Once the whistle blows, you turn off the switch and get up. You can tell the players who were coached differently (*cough* Suh *cough*) Williams isn't just saying attack the head and tear the ACL, he's saying hit players on the sideline if you can, hit the head and wrench the ankles in the pile. Romonowski admitted to breaking a finger at the bottom of the pile once and everyone thinks he's a disgusting dirty player, how is Williams different? The ironic thing is Williams D wasn't even that good. Maybe if they spent more time focused on hitting hard, but clean and playing in position, they might have been a better D than all this locker room time focused on attacking the head, and the ACL, and the sidelines, after the whistle.
RealityCheck Posted April 6, 2012 Posted April 6, 2012 Given the short attention spans and the inability to process information from what we see when it contradicts what we are told in this country I am confidant that the NFL will continue to prosper in the foreseeable future. The notion that parents will start successfully guiding their sons away from high school and college football because of this story are being just as blind and simple minded as they were before the story broke. This revelation to you has been the cultural reality in college and the NFL for decades. If the players were willing to deal with it then for the improbability of fame and fortune then why would it change now just because the denial of a few armchair GMs has been lifted, for now. I suppose many will believe that this is an isolated incident anyways. Wait till a story breaks that NFL players are prescribed GH by their licensed physicians after their reconstructive surgeries.
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