Greg Williams ...caught on tape....

[Toshiero]

right but is making him human putting him on a cart, or is it making him watch the next time he gets the ball? i think the goal was make him scared to run after the catch, and if he got hurt - so be it, another one out of the way.

 

Let me try this again, ordering and setting up bounties to INTENTIONALLY INJURE PLAYERS is pure and absolute chicken **** and against every aspect of sport period. I don't want to hear some meathead, gym thug mentality on this. I am all for knocking the **** out of someone LEGALLY! Many greats in the past went out with the intention on knocking the **** out of someone and if they were out of the game so be it, but they didn't take money, nor sit there and intentionally try to INJURE someone.

 

It still is stunning to me how many just don't get this. I wonder how they would feel and be responding if Stevie Johnson was on the list and had his ACL blown out by a Saints player?

[Peter]

The only problem would be that he might have some of the girls wear the goofy sweaters he likes to wear.

Side note - Gregg Williams can definitely write for the Spartacus series next year being that he'll no longer work in the NFL...

[NoSaint]

No, the goal for G. Williams was to have players injured. I love big hits and don't agree with the NFL's trend towards less big hits, but this crosses the line.

 

I think the injuries were more then welcome by him. i think he wanted players to hurt - as thats how a lot of games are won. if the guys not 100%, or if hes out of the game, your odds of winning just went up. i dont think its about intentional career enders that are dirty though. i think that he was perfectly happy being in a guys head, but if he got injured, oh well, all the better for the win.

 

i agree he crossed a line. i just dont know how you reign in that line or where it falls. the giants admit to targeting SF players with head injuries just the next week after this audio. is that different to you? is it that its a coach and not players that makes it cross the line? its a weird slippery slope when you start talking about where to draw the line and how to enforce it in a game so physical with so much riding on the outcome.

 

Let me try this again, ordering and setting up bounties to INTENTIONALLY INJURE PLAYERS is pure and absolute chicken **** and against every aspect of sport period. I don't want to hear some meathead, gym thug mentality on this. I am all for knocking the **** out of someone LEGALLY! Many greats in the past went out with the intention on knocking the **** out of someone and if they were out of the game so be it, but they didn't take money, nor sit there and intentionally try to INJURE someone.

 

It still is stunning to me how many just don't get this. I wonder how they would feel and be responding if Stevie Johnson was on the list and had his ACL blown out by a Saints player?

 

how many players did we knock out when gregg was here toshiero? do you have that same feeling towards any players that were here then?

[K-9]

Maybe Gregg Williams had his guys hit YOU in the head a couple of times if you think that audio was a "let's go win and be the better football team" speech... It was more of a "I'm tired of the Romans raping our women let's literally cut their heads off" speech...

 

Side note - Gregg Williams can definitely write for the Spartacus series next year being that he'll no longer work in the NFL...

 

Disagree. Gregg Williams is a coward afraid of losing to the best players on the opposing team. Now Glaber may have wanted someone else to kill Spartacus and even paid them handsomely to do so, but at least Glaber went down swinging just before Spartacus rammed a sword down his throat. Gregg Williams would still be hiding in the forests around Vesuvius.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[DefenseWinzChampionshipz]

Haven't listened, but I'm guessing 90% (or more) is stuff heard in every football locker room.

 

Unfortunately for Greggggg, it's that arrogance we all know and love that led to the unacceptable 10%.

 

He's done in the NFL.

 

The link is on page 1. You should listen... Hear for yourself...

 

Disagree. Gregg Williams is a coward afraid of losing to the best players on the opposing team. Now Glaber may have wanted someone else to kill Spartacus and even paid them handsomely to do so, but at least Glaber went down swinging just before Spartacus rammed a sword down his throat. Gregg Williams would still be hiding in the forests around Vesuvius.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Now now... You're getting way ahead of yourself... I said GW can "write" for the Spartacus series... Not act in it...

[TC in St. Louis]

Williams is the scapegoat. The head coach and GM were told to stop this practice, and they let him continue. If you've got a guy that works for you and is doing something wrong....and you let him continue, it's on you.

 

 

He was working up the players. I didn't hear him say to run out and destroy somebody's ACL. He said to inflict pain, causing fear, which causes respect. He said to target the head....kill the head, kill the body. That's a metaphor. The firsh rots from the head down. I heard a clip from Marv saying "we're gonna knock their asses off!" does that mean they're going out to do that specific? No, get out there and kill somebody!! What does that mean? Williams' players went out and inflicted pain. I do believe they went too far....that last hit on Warner was atrocious.

 

Anybody notice in hockey they don't disclose specifics about injuries? Upper body, lower body....etc. Why? Because they know the opposition will target the injury. Anybody ever see how the Broncos chop-block? they are out to hurt people. Ever see Rodney Harrison dive at a QB's knees?

 

By the way, how dumb was it of Williams to allow that speech to be taped?

[NoSaint]

I'm curious. Did Gregg's graduated bonus scale (you know, the one that paid more or less depending on 'knockout' or 'cartoff') pay more for the metaphorical head or the literal head of a player?

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I get it, and I get that zero cartoffs or kill shots in 3 years along with the terms allegedly meaning missed plays and did not return are of no effect to your opinion. You take the issue as black and white while I'm debating a shade of gray.

[mannc]

What an absolute disgrace. This guy should never be allowed near a football field again. And the Buffalo Bills organization should be embarassed that it ever hired him in any capacity, much less as its head coach. From what we can tell, his act really has never changed. The shocking thing to me is that many of the players appear to have bought into this guy.

[Gordio]

Haven't listened, but I'm guessing 90% (or more) is stuff heard in every football locker room.

 

Unfortunately for Greggggg, it's that arrogance we all know and love that led to the unacceptable 10%.

 

He's done in the NFL.

 

Bingo.

 

Who really cares. This type of thing goes on in every NFL lockerroom. It is just that the Saints were so god dam arrogant about it they thought they were above the league & more importantly thought they were above Goodell. Big mistake. You guys & the NFL can't have it both ways. Look football & the NFL in particular is the most popular sport in the country for 2 reasons. 1.) The gambling aspect of it. From betting on the games, to all the fantasy leagues, take away the gambling aspect of the sport & it's popularity drops 10 fold. If you really look & analyze the NFL game it is actually quiter boring. All the commercial timeouts, every team running the same boring offense, the league can not find enough decent QB's to truly make it a competive league. The college game is so much more better. I am not saying it has better quality players but the game itself is much more interesting.

 

The 2nd reason it is so popular is the violence of the game. America loves violence. King Roger Even talks out of both sides of his mouth on this issue. He wants "player safety" but then he keeps pushing for an 18 game schedule. The guy is a hypocrite.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Gordio

[K-9]

I get it, and I get that zero cartoffs or kill shots in 3 years along with the terms allegedly meaning missed plays and did not return are of no effect to your opinion. You take the issue as black and white while I'm debating a shade of gray.

 

The issue of a coach meting out bonus payments in meeting rooms with his players based on the severity of a potential injury is about as black and white as it gets.

 

Regardless of what happened on the field in those three years. Regardless of pre-game speeches caught on tape.

 

I don't think you get it at all.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Phil Hansen Forever]

after hearing that i wonder was it edited some?

 

I mean Williams sounds crazy, half sentences, repeats himself like Rainman, very strange.

 

Think maybe he has been hit in the head a few times and wants others to feel his pain?

 

Seriously, this goes against everything the NFL is very publicly trying to stop- 'Head Shots'. 'Cut off the head and the body dies'.

Not to mention taking out guys knees.

If Goodell doesn't throw Williams out of the league for ever, he is allowing a huge liability to be involved.

If you watched the video/audio it says the tape was a compilation of his speaches. He turned on and off the recorder throughout his rant.

[It's in My Blood]

[quote name='TC in St. Louis'

 

[\quote]

He was working up the players. I didn't hear him say to run out and destroy somebody's ACL.

 

He in fact literally told his players to take out the ACL of a player. Listen to it again. Its disgusting and cowardly. Relying on your players to injure the opposition in order to win is cowardly.

[NoSaint]

The issue of a coach meting out bonus payments in meeting rooms with his players based on the severity of a potential injury is about as black and white as it gets.

 

Regardless of what happened on the field in those three years. Regardless of pre-game speeches caught on tape.

 

I don't think you get it at all.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I get it - murder is nice and black and white - until you start talking about intent, actual actions of the crime, sentencing, etc.... I'm not saying what he did was ok. I am trying to discuss what we know so far, and what I've seen watching his defense weekly for 3 years in new orleans, several more years in buffalo and many an additional game along the way, as opposed to spouting angry rhetoric. I don't like Gregg or his system. I don't think his system is quite what you think it is though based on the facts released, and what I've seen as someone that's watched much of his career. I think he's a slimeball. I still can't believe he was doing the "suck it" nonsense from wrestling on the sideline of nfl games. I'm glad he's gone, and I think many in the saints organization are glad he's gone. There's a reason why outside of Jeff fisher no one brings him back or promotes him within (remember the redskins HC search?). It's bad, he's bad. Did he pay on dirty hits? Did he pay fines? I've heard he took money for penalties- is that true of flagged hits? There's some judgement to be discussed in this. There are things that I'd escalate to criminal charges, some I'd ban him for depending on what comes out. How do you treat players? Other coaches? Who knew what? Who was in the room that night? Do you go back his whole career?

Edited April 5, 2012 by NoSaint

[K-9]

I get it - murder is nice and black and white - until you start talking about intent, actual actions of the crime, sentencing, etc.... I'm not saying what he did was ok. I am trying to discuss what we know so far, and what I've seen watching his defense weekly for 3 years in new orleans, several more years in buffalo and many an additional game along the way, as opposed to spouting angry rhetoric. I don't like Gregg or his system. I don't think his system is quite what you think it is though based on the facts released, and what I've seen as someone that's watched much of his career. I think he's a slimeball. I still can't believe he was doing the "suck it" nonsense from wrestling on the sideline of nfl games. I'm glad he's gone, and I think many in the saints organization are glad he's gone. There's a reason why outside of Jeff fisher no one brings him back or promotes him within (remember the redskins HC search?). It's bad, he's bad.

 

OK. Let's take the murder analogy a step further. What if Gregg Williams was in a meeting room with his players actually plotting to murder someone, offered money for the job, and none of his players killed anyone? And both of Williams' immediate superiors knew all about the murder plot?

 

Were any laws broken?

 

While the murder analogy is carrying it way too far, it does serve a point in that it illustrates just how black and white the issue really is.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[eme123]

Lol, It's scary that you actually believe what you are saying. GW flat out, in plain English, told his players to attack ACL's, try and create concussions, and attempt to injure in dog piles. Open and closed case. Players in the NFL aren't exactly geniuses, if the coach says to do something, they will try to do it. Especially young players trying to get or keep a job.

 

Why would injuring the other teams best players help your team win? Really? You can't figure that out? If the best players on the other team aren't playing on a rival (like the 49ers were to the Saints last year), your odds go up dramatically. A fine or penalty is a small price to pay, especially if you get a "bounty" for it.

 

 

How many ACL's were snapped that day? How many times was Alex smith hit in the chin? If those players were supposed to take his words seriously then they failed miserably.

 

Never once said the Saints were not better off w/ Alex smith out of the game.

[NoSaint]

OK. Let's take the murder analogy a step further. What if Gregg Williams was in a meeting room with his players actually plotting to murder someone, offered money for the job, and none of his players killed anyone? And both of Williams' immediate superiors knew all about the murder plot?

 

Were any laws broken?

 

While the murder analogy is carrying it way too far, it does serve a point in that it illustrates just how black and white the issue really is.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

My point wasn't that this is like murder, my point was murder is the most black and white "this is wrong to do" discussions that there is a spectrum to discuss. You understand that.

Edited April 5, 2012 by NoSaint

[Gordio]

OK. Let's take the murder analogy a step further. What if Gregg Williams was in a meeting room with his players actually plotting to murder someone, offered money for the job, and none of his players killed anyone? And both of Williams' immediate superiors knew all about the murder plot?

 

Were any laws broken?

 

While the murder analogy is carrying it way too far, it does serve a point in that it illustrates just how black and white the issue really is.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Like I said they were more arrogant about it. It fits Payton's profile. He has been an arrogant prick ever since he got to New orleans. It was like they were almost flaunting it to the NFL. Where other teams are probably making side deals of what the bounties are going to be for that particular game in the privacy in the showers after practice, the Saints pretty much did it where everybody was going to be able to see it. Payton & Williams deserve their punishments if nothing more then being so arrogant & stupid.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Gordio

[BillsGuyInMalta]

The trolling in this thread is stupendous.

[DefenseWinzChampionshipz]

Lol. I'd last a lot longer than you would in that pocket. Especially since you cant get past the pre game speech.

 

I'm sure you would. I'm nobody over here. You're Mr. Internet thug... Football players are warriors. Men. If you hear a pre game speech from say a Ray Lewis or a Tom Coughlin, it makes you want to go to war and fight. Now listening to GW's speech sounds like a head scratcher like, ok where are you going with this coach? I was waiting for him to drop the N word in the speech but he stuck with the mofo curses... The dude sounded like an animal and this is just me being psychic but, also a little racist. There's no evidence of racism I know but I'm just going by racism I've heard in my life and I put money on that he was biting his tongue a lot in his speech...

Edited April 5, 2012 by DefenseWinzChampionshipz

[K-9]

My point wasn't that this is like murder, my point was irvin in the most black and white "this is wrong to do" discussions that there is a spectrum to discuss. You understand that.

 

My point wasn't that this is anything like murder, either. I think you know that, too.

 

You seek to carry the spectrum of discussion to the field and any subsequent egregious hits that did or didn't occur. That did or didn't result in injury. It seems that as long as nobody was actually hurt or otherwise carried out Williams' instructions, then somehow it's just not as bad as it's being made out to be.

 

What transpired on the field isn't the precluding factor. It's not even a factor at all. It's what occurred in those meeting rooms with players when the pay scale was set up BEFORE they hit the field by a person in a leadership position and with the full knowledge of his immediate superiors.

 

The fact the Williams "conspired" to commit injuries is the crime. Not whether or not anyone was actually injured. Again, it's as black and white as it gets.

 

GO BILLS!!!