Where does Fitzpatrick Rank?

[Alphadawg7]

I think it's pretty much inarguable that while Fred Jackson was playing last year, he was right at the top 2-3 performers in the league at RB. When terms are brought up like "who is the best" then all kinds of other factors are brought into play, like longevity, age, playoffs, etc. But Fred Jackson was clearly one of the very best, if not the very best RB in the NFL during the 10 games he played. I can't even imagine how good he would be thought of on a team like Green Bay or the Saints or the Patriots.

 

As far as Brady goes, no one anywhere is arguing that Fitz is nearly as good as Brady.

 

No you are arguing the Bills still wouldnt have done much better with Brady instead of Fitz. You also claimed Brady wouldnt make it through a season playing in Fitzs shoes despite being hit more than Fitz was last year and being a guy who never misses games with the exception of having his knee bent the wrong way on a fluke play.

 

The year after Cassel left NE when he was sacked 47 times, he threw less passes in KC and was sacked 42 times, for more sack yards than when on NE. Methinks maybe it is Matt Cassel. Thanks for playing.

 

If NE has this all world line you like to imply Brady has, he wouldnt not have been sacked 47 times...and KC line was not very good either, so your point is mute once again. The funniest part is that you claim Brady just sits back there standing there with all the time in the world. If that was true, then Cassel would have had the same protection and wouldnt have been the most sacked QB in the league. Plus, Brady is slower than Cassel, yet is sacked less in 2 seasons on a gimpy leg than Cassel was sacked in one. Yet you want to blame Cassel and give no credit to Brady but say its all his OL...hilarious

Edited April 13, 2012 by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

I don't consider myself to be a homer. There is no need to expand on my previous comments about the averageness of Fitz. However, your ranking of Fred Jackson is reasonable. I'm not going to say that he is the best but based on last year's performance a person can reasonably make that claim. There wasn't a runner better than him who read the plays and made the right decisions. His ability to quickly read the blocks and hit the narrow seam was amazing. It was rare that when the replay was shown that it appeared that he made the wrong decision on where to go.

 

Freddy is an all around back in an era of specialization. He is an excellent blocker and can catch the ball out of the backfield. As with elite players such as Brady and Manning his football instincts are exceptional. If Spiller (still learnig) had the football acumen that Jackson had he would be a dynamite player. Without any reservations I am very comfortable in saying that he should be considered an elite running back in a league with a lot of very good backs.

 

I agree that Fred is a multi talented all around back, but I wouldn't go as far as best in the league as some say. I mean he has just one 1,000 yard season in his careers...guys who are the best at their position in the NFL have better resumes. That being said, he is top talent back in the league and I love his play and there are only handful of backs I would rank above him.

 

That being said, I think CJ has the potential to be even better and is already more explosive and is ready to carry the load here so we can save FJ's legs.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

If NE has this all world line you like to imply Brady has, he wouldnt not have been sacked 47 times...and KC line was not very good either, so your point is mute once again. Brady is SLOWER than Cassel, yet is sacked less in 2 seasons on a gimpy leg than Cassel was sacked in one. Yet you want to blame Cassel and give no credit to Brady but say its all his OL...hilarious

He would if he never played before and held the ball way too long, and couldn't make decisions quick enough because he had never played in real games before, and he did. That was the big criticism of him. Then he went to KC and did it exactly the same the next year. And the media and fans questioned whether he had what it takes to be a successful QB. Since then he has settled down a little and is getting recognized for it.

 

And you're just being a complete disingenuous ass now saying I "give no credit to Brady" because I have been ballwashing Brady like crazy in this entire thread. I said he is the best in the league at avoiding the rush and is one of the very best QBs of all time, and has uncanny, tremendous ability to sense rushers and step up in the pocket and sidestep to avoid the rush. Apparently you don't really bother to read.

[Maury Ballstein]

He would if he never played before and held the ball way too long, and couldn't make decisions quick enough because he had never played in real games before, and he did. That was the big criticism of him. Then he went to KC and did it exactly the same the next year. And the media and fans questioned whether he had what it takes to be a successful QB. Since then he has settled down a little and is getting recognized for it.

 

And you're just being a complete disingenuous ass now saying I "give no credit to Brady" because I have been ballwashing Brady like crazy in this entire thread. I said he is the best in the league at avoiding the rush and is one of the very best QBs of all time, and has uncanny, tremendous ability to sense rushers and step up in the pocket and sidestep to avoid the rush. Apparently you don't really bother to read.

 

 

And to summarize all this....Brady is 30x better than Fitz.....We all know this already

[Bronc24]

How is Brady / Fitz even a discussion? Any football fan outside of Bills fans would not even entertain the comparison, let alone try and justify it. I be,t people love Fitz for whatever reason, but wow, to mention him in the same sentence as Brady is ludicrous.

[Alphadawg7]

How is Brady / Fitz even a discussion? Any football fan outside of Bills fans would not even entertain the comparison, let alone try and justify it. I be,t people love Fitz for whatever reason, but wow, to mention him in the same sentence as Brady is ludicrous.

 

Exactly...And to say we wouldnt have done much better last year with Brady over Fitz is absurd...

[JohnC]

I agree that Fred is a multi talented all around back, but I wouldn't go as far as best in the league as some say. I mean he has just one 1,000 yard season in his careers...guys who are the best at their position in the NFL have better resumes. That being said, he is top talent back in the league and I love his play and there are only handful of backs I would rank above him.

 

I agree with all your comments regarding Freddy J. I am basing my high estimmate of him from last season. I, as you, am not saying he is the best back in the league. What I am saying is that he is an upper tier back.

 

That being said, I think CJ has the potential to be even better and is already more explosive and is ready to carry the load here so we can save FJ's legs.

 

There is no need to try to convince me that Spiller is a scintillating talent. I have felt that from the start. He is a big play player on a team lacking that type of impact player. Without a doubt he has had trouble adjusting to the pro game. Dancing around worked while he was on the college field but it certainly doesn't work in the professional ranks.

 

Last year, after Jackson got hurt, Spiller gave a glimpse of the type of player he is. The problem with Spiller is that he was reluctant to take what was there and persisted in trying to make the big play instead of taking what was available. It was apparent that as the season advanced and the more touches he got he became a more efficient and disciplined runner.

 

There are many posters who continue to lament the Spiller pick. I'm not one of them. If the Bills can get a credible LT and Gailey gets the ball in his hands more they should belatedly be able to understand why Nix took a top ten talent in a top ten draft position.

Edited April 13, 2012 by JohnC

[Alphadawg7]

I agree with all your comments regarding Freddy J. I am basing my high estimmate of him from last season. I, as you, am not saying he is the best back in the league. What I am saying is that he is an upper tier back.

 

 

 

There is no need to try to convince me that Spiller is a scintillating talent. I have felt that from the start. He is a big play player on a team lacking that type of impact player. Without a doubt he has had trouble adjusting to the pro game. Dancing around worked while he was on the college field but it certainly doesn't work in the professional ranks.

 

Last year, after Jackson got hurt, Spiller gave a glimpse of the type of player he is. The problem with Spiller is that he was reluctant to take what was there and persisted in trying to make the big play instead of taking what was available. It was apparent that as the season advanced and the more touches he got he became a more efficient and disciplined runner.

 

There are many posters who continue to lament the Spiller pick. I'm not one of them. If the Bills can get a credible LT and Gailey gets the ball in his hands more they should belatedly be able to understand why Nix took a top ten talent in a top ten draft position.

 

Well said, and totally agree. I would add that CJ also struggled mightily his rookie year with pass protection and blitz pick up which was also a large factor in his limited touches. And just like he became more disciplined as a runner as he was getting more touches last year, his pass blocking also substantially improved. FJ still is better at it than him, but then again FJ is better than most backs in the league at pass protection. But CJ really started rounding out his game last year, and there is not a better RB to mentor him than FJ being how complete he is and how great a teammate as well.

 

I said it before, CJ will lead this team in rushing this year...FJ will be right there with him, but CJ I think narrowly edges him out in carries and yards and then takes the lions share the following year. This will help prolong FJ's value and career as well.

[Bill from NYC]

Well said, and totally agree. I would add that CJ also struggled mightily his rookie year with pass protection and blitz pick up which was also a large factor in his limited touches. And just like he became more disciplined as a runner as he was getting more touches last year, his pass blocking also substantially improved. FJ still is better at it than him, but then again FJ is better than most backs in the league at pass protection. But CJ really started rounding out his game last year, and there is not a better RB to mentor him than FJ being how complete he is and how great a teammate as well.

 

I said it before, CJ will lead this team in rushing this year...FJ will be right there with him, but CJ I think narrowly edges him out in carries and yards and then takes the lions share the following year. This will help prolong FJ's value and career as well.

 

Do you think that pounces will stop bouncing off of his hands for interceptions?

[NewEra]

1334428647[/url]' post='2436795']

Well said, and totally agree. I would add that CJ also struggled mightily his rookie year with pass protection and blitz pick up which was also a large factor in his limited touches. And just like he became more disciplined as a runner as he was getting more touches last year, his pass blocking also substantially improved. FJ still is better at it than him, but then again FJ is better than most backs in the league at pass protection. But CJ really started rounding out his game last year, and there is not a better RB to mentor him than FJ being how complete he is and how great a teammate as well.

 

I said it before, CJ will lead this team in rushing this year...FJ will be right there with him, but CJ I think narrowly edges him out in carries and yards and then takes the lions share the following year. This will help prolong FJ's value and career as well.

 

If spiller gets more touches than Fred, Chan will have made a mistake (barring injury). Fred is the superior back. No question about it

[Alphadawg7]

Do you think that pounces will stop bouncing off of his hands for interceptions?

 

Do you think Fitz will stop throwing the ball to the other team?

 

Do you think SJ will stop dropping game winning passes?

 

Point is, lots of players have had some plays they wish they could have back...Spiller made a hell of a lot more big plays than bad ones when he took over last year, and the kid is a star ready to break out.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Alphadawg7

[Bill from NYC]

Do you think Fitz will stop throwing the ball to the other team?

 

Do you think SJ will stop dropping game winning passes?

 

Point is, lots of players have had some plays they wish they could have back...Spiller made a hell of a lot more big plays than bad ones when he took over last year, and the kid is a star ready to break out.

 

I hope that you are right, and that he can stop me from regretting this selection.

[Alphadawg7]

If spiller gets more touches than Fred, Chan will have made a mistake (barring injury). Fred is the superior back. No question about it

 

Come on, all this exaggeration of how much better FJ is to CJ is getting out of control. You say that like FJ is a first ballot HOF'er (which he is not) and CJ is some 3rd string scrub (which he is not). CJ is a substantially talented RB on his own, and even more athletically gifted than FJ. There are things FJ is better at just like there are things CJ is better at. I just don't understand how so many people still put the kid down when he has been a model citizen on this team, never complained, and worked his butt off to get better at things like pass protection and attacking the hole instead of dancing at the line (something most young RB's struggle with coming out of college). He even worked his ass off to become a make shift receiver when we needed his help in the passing game to help get him more touches.

 

This kid has done everything asked and proved his potential last year and how high this kids ceiling is...yet so many people dismiss him as if FJ is leaps and bounds better than CJ when thats just simply no longer true and CJ proved that on the field. I love FJ as much as anyone, but its not about FJ, its about CJ emerging as a real player and being the more explosive back.

 

I stand by my statement that CJ will lead this team in rushing this as he narrowly edges FJ in touches and yards with them likely splitting carries all year. This would be GREAT for this team with a 1-2 punch of FJ and CJ and taking more wear and tear off FJ's 31 year old legs...this would NOT be a mistake by Chan. CJ is also only going to get better with more touches as he showed last year.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Alphadawg7

[Best Player Available]

Do you think Fitz will stop throwing the ball to the other team?

 

Do you think SJ will stop dropping game winning passes?

 

Point is, lots of players have had some plays they wish they could have back...Spiller made a hell of a lot more big plays than bad ones when he took over last year, and the kid is a star ready to break out.

CJ's sample size is still quite small. Although it does seem the light has turned on.

 

 

As a receiver out of the backfield he is not in Freds league. Yet.

 

Ditto that for blocking.

[NewEra]

1334432114[/url]' post='2436843']

Come on, all this exaggeration of how much better FJ is to CJ is getting out of control. You say that like FJ is a first ballot HOF'er (which he is not) and CJ is some 3rd string scrub (which he is not). CJ is a substantially talented RB on his own, and even more athletically gifted than FJ. There are things FJ is better at just like there are things CJ is better at. I just don't understand how so many people still put the kid down when he has been a model citizen on this team, never complained, and worked his butt off to get better at things like pass protection and attacking the hole instead of dancing at the line (something most young RB's struggle with coming out of college). He even worked his ass off to become a make shift receiver when we needed his help in the passing game to help get him more touches.

 

This kid has done everything asked and proved his potential last year and how high this kids ceiling is...yet so many people dismiss him as if FJ is leaps and bounds better than CJ when thats just simply no longer true and CJ proved that on the field. I love FJ as much as anyone, but its not about FJ, its about CJ emerging as a real player and being the more explosive back.

 

I stand by my statement that CJ will lead this team in rushing this as he narrowly edges FJ in touches and yards with them likely splitting carries all year. This would be GREAT for this team with a 1-2 punch of FJ and CJ and taking more wear and tear off FJ's 31 year old legs...this would NOT be a mistake by Chan. CJ is also only going to get better with more touches as he showed last year.

 

I say that like when Fred was playing this year, we were winning. He was the best running back in the league through the first 7-8 games or so. He's a much better blocker. He has better hands. He's tougher. He gets more out of every carry. He doesn't have the game breaking speed. He's a better running back. That's all I'm saying. I think it's ludicrous to think that the better back wouldn't have more touches. It doesn't make sense.

 

Now on the the more important topic. How am I putting spiller down? You're completely fabricating what i said. I LOVE Cj. I think he's a tremendous back and would be a starter for many teams. I love everything about him as a football player and man off the field. I've never said anything derogatory about him. I was thrilled when we drafted him. I'm even more thrilled now. Fred Jackson is a better player. He deserves more touches. Fred Jackson is one of the best RBs in the league. Stating that he deserves more touches isn't dismissing him or calling him a 3rd string scrub. Where you got that, is beyond me.

[JohnC]

I hope that you are right, and that he can stop me from regretting this selection.

 

After watching a number of dazzling runs you will come around. You will be moved from the "recalcitrant" column to the "receptive" column.

 

As a big Crimson Tide fan I'm sure you are well aware that Alabama probably will have 5 first round picks in this draft. That program is loaded and again ready to reload. How does a Yankee from the north become such a devotee of a confederate school? My favorite player on that team is Barrett Jones, possibly the most versatile offensive lineman in the country. Being a Crimson Tide afficionado I'm sure you are aware that he will be replaced at LT by Arie Koundjio, a sophomore, who will eventually be a top ten pick.

Edited April 14, 2012 by JohnC

[Alphadawg7]

I say that like when Fred was playing this year, we were winning. He was the best running back in the league through the first 7-8 games or so. He's a much better blocker. He has better hands. He's tougher. He gets more out of every carry. He doesn't have the game breaking speed. He's a better running back. That's all I'm saying. I think it's ludicrous to think that the better back wouldn't have more touches. It doesn't make sense.

 

Now on the the more important topic. How am I putting spiller down? You're completely fabricating what i said. I LOVE Cj. I think he's a tremendous back and would be a starter for many teams. I love everything about him as a football player and man off the field. I've never said anything derogatory about him. I was thrilled when we drafted him. I'm even more thrilled now. Fred Jackson is a better player. He deserves more touches. Fred Jackson is one of the best RBs in the league. Stating that he deserves more touches isn't dismissing him or calling him a 3rd string scrub. Where you got that, is beyond me.

 

Sorry, let me clarify...I wasn't specifically saying you were calling him a 3rd string scrub as much as I was commenting on the various posts and threads on this board. Your statement of Fred is a "Superior" back and that Chan would make a mistake not giving FJ the bulk of carries implies there is a large talent difference...I used the First Ballot HOF vs a 3rd string scrub to illustrate the implication that the words you chose gave. I did not say you specifically said that, but others have gone that far as to exaggerate the talent difference of CJ and FJ in that realm.

 

Saying FJ is "Superior" implies a large gap in talent level, and to me that is a gross exaggeration. CJ is actually better at some things right now than FJ just like FJ is better at some things than CJ. The gap of who is the better RB is not very large and even debateable and CJ is only getting better and FJ is now 31 this year and coming off a broken leg. I strongly disagree with the statement of FJ being "Superior" and the only mistakes Chan made were taking the ball OUT of our RB's hands and putting it in Fitz's hands last year where he proceeded to lead the league in INT's and completely fall apart the bulk of the final 2/3rds of the year...and FYI: We were losing before FJ got hurt...

 

FJ getting hurt is not why this team began to lose, we began to lose because we no longer got a FREAKISH amount of turnovers on D and continued giving the ball away on offense and Fitz's play dropped off quite a bit.

[NewEra]

1334459609[/url]' post='2437080']

Sorry, let me clarify...I wasn't specifically saying you were calling him a 3rd string scrub as much as I was commenting on the various posts and threads on this board. Your statement of Fred is a "Superior" back and that Chan would make a mistake not giving FJ the bulk of carries implies there is a large talent difference...I used the First Ballot HOF vs a 3rd string scrub to illustrate the implication that the words you chose gave. I did not say you specifically said that, but others have gone that far as to exaggerate the talent difference of CJ and FJ in that realm.

 

Saying FJ is "Superior" implies a large gap in talent level, and to me that is a gross exaggeration. CJ is actually better at some things right now than FJ just like FJ is better at some things than CJ. The gap of who is the better RB is not very large and even debateable and CJ is only getting better and FJ is now 31 this year and coming off a broken leg. I strongly disagree with the statement of FJ being "Superior" and the only mistakes Chan made were taking the ball OUT of our RB's hands and putting it in Fitz's hands last year where he proceeded to lead the league in INT's and completely fall apart the bulk of the final 2/3rds of the year...and FYI: We were losing before FJ got hurt...

 

FJ getting hurt is not why this team began to lose, we began to lose because we no longer got a FREAKISH amount of turnovers on D and continued giving the ball away on offense and Fitz's play dropped off quite a bit.

 

He does one thing better: he runs faster. That's all.

I should rephrase my comment. Fred is clearly the better back. Superior may be a bit strong....just a bit. Like I said before, I think cj is going to be special, and im glad he's a bill, but Fred is the better player at this point and deserves more touches.

[XXL Franchize]

This list is absolutely ridiculous. I mean this list isn't even close to reality. I could easily justify moving fitz up 5-8 spots. I mean they have Big Ben rated higher than Peyton, Aaron and Drew Breese.....Get the F$%& outta here. A list not even worth glimpsing at!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!