Where does Fitzpatrick Rank?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

So you would want him over the 13 guys directly ahead of him?

 

Over Sanchez, Palmer, Freeman, and Cutler, yes I would.

Bradford has had a rough life in the NFL and deserves the benefit of the doubt, anyone who thinks the Bills would be better with him behind center right now is going against the facts

Locker likewise, he may be good someday but he hasn't played enough to show whether he's going to develop or flop - his 52 completions in 66 attempts weren't awful, but he didn't have "trade the farm for him" written all over him.

 

So that's 6 of the 13 guys in front of him, and Dalton, RGIII and Luck are ahead based entirely upon potential.

[Maury Ballstein]

I think he's awesome. Always have. He does more with less. If he had some better recievers and if Chan would actually allow him to use his strengths instead of testing his weaknesses, he'd look a lot better. I consider him top 10 in the NFL and top 2 overall for Bills all time (behind Kelly, ahead of Flutie).

 

 

IMO fitz and awesome should never be used in the same sentence. Everyone wants to talk about "the rib" and the injuries but the cold hard truth is he's just not that good. He plays hard but was not born with the NFL arm so many other Qb's possess. I am pulling for him but deep down I feel he will throw pick after pick, hopefully Chan sets him up with easy throws after running the rock all day.

 

If I had to rank him collegiately I would rate him a C minus.

 

Over Sanchez, Palmer, Freeman, and Cutler, yes I would.

Bradford has had a rough life in the NFL and deserves the benefit of the doubt, anyone who thinks the Bills would be better with him behind center right now is going against the facts

Locker likewise, he may be good someday but he hasn't played enough to show whether he's going to develop or flop - his 52 completions in 66 attempts weren't awful, but he didn't have "trade the farm for him" written all over him.

 

So that's 6 of the 13 guys in front of him, and Dalton, RGIII and Luck are ahead based entirely upon potential.

 

 

Over Cutler? Are you serious about that? Cutler is exponentially a better QB than fitz. I would trade Fitz for Freeman straight up right now as well. I know he was lackluster last season but he should end up fine.

[KD in CA]

And putting guys who've not thrown a down in the NFL or who haven't thrown enough to be ranked passers (Locker) above guys who've actually seen NFL action is just silly. Luck, Griffin, and Locker do not belong on that list, sorry, and Bradford doesn't get a mulligan from #29 up to #18 'cuz he's a former #1 pick with high hopes on his shoulders.

 

There are valid criticisms to be made with the list, but it's a list for the 2012 season, so the rookies and first time starters do belong there because they are the presumptive starters for their respective teams.

[DanInUticaTampa]

I say after last season, he is probably in the top 20, but no higher. I think there is room for him to grow though. Hope he doesn't get worse

[CardinalScotts]

forced to play with non NFL players not only off the couch and on the team, but STARTING- everyone is going to be challenged to make them look good. Give me a good quarterback with bad players around him -. Fitz is a good quarterback when he's had the chance in this offense to play with good players around him. Pretty cut and dry

[Billsrhody]

You do realize that this list has no connection to the reality of how the QB on it played, and is all about the man-loooove the author has for the QB in question, often for feats of Yore?

 

For example Bradford, though a highly-rated draft prospect whose team still has high hopes for him, completed a whopping 53% of his passes last year and ranked #29 in QB rating.

Putting him over Freeman, Palmer, and Alex Smith has no basis in any demonstrated NFL reality, past or present. Stafford and Romo were top-five QB last year. Putting them down in the 2nd tier, at #11 and #13, might be OK except by what criterion do you rate Newton, Vick, Ryan, and Rivers above them? Team wins? Completion percentage? Passing yards? Career success? Better year? Bzzt Bzzt Bzzt Bzzt.

 

And putting guys who've not thrown a down in the NFL or who haven't thrown enough to be ranked passers (Locker) above guys who've actually seen NFL action is just silly. Luck, Griffin, and Locker do not belong on that list, sorry, and Bradford doesn't get a mulligan from #29 up to #18 'cuz he's a former #1 pick with high hopes on his shoulders.

 

Take out the players who had a short season due to injury (sorry, you don't get to project the first half of the season onto the last half), the rookies who don't belong there, and the players who are ranked stupid-higher than their NFL record of the last 3 years, and that puts Fitz about #15, which is about correct right now- his completion percentage, yards, and game savvy put him just out of the top 10 and his league-leading INTs put him into the bottom third, average them out.

 

It's always a little disheartening to see Bills fans read a list constructed on "name recognition" and personal bias and take it seriously.

 

First of all, yes I do realize whats in the article.. and thats why I said it was disheartening that I couldnt justify moving him up on that list more than 1 or 2 places. Can you honestly say you wouldnt rather have Bradford, Locker, RGIII or Luck over Fitz? The columnist is taking potential into account and I think thats a fair thing to do.

 

If Stafford and Romo are in your top 5, who do you take out?

 

Brady

Manning

Manning

Brees

Rogers

 

Can you honest say that Tony Romo belongs ahead of any of those guys?? That makes me seriously question any credibility in your argument. If anything this article is pointing out the current value of a player to his team. I would trade Fitz straight up for every guy on that list above him except for Sanchez and Palmer. I'd love to you see your list of QB rankings where Fitz falls 15.

[VirginiaMike]

I take this guys ratings with a grain of salt - he's full of bull. He's ranked two guys who have never planyed in the NFL up higher and also jake Locker who played very few snaps. That makes no sense to rate someone on what you think they can do, not what they've done. Also -- Big Ben third ahead of Rogers and Brees -- don't think that's close to right.

[thewildrabbit]

I think he's awesome. Always have. He does more with less. If he had some better recievers and if Chan would actually allow him to use his strengths instead of testing his weaknesses, he'd look a lot better. I consider him top 10 in the NFL and top 2 overall for Bills all time (behind Kelly, ahead of Flutie).

Considering the lack of talent on the teams he has been the QB on...yea, i also think he has done an awesome job in Buffalo the last two years.

 

Everyone seems to have a selective memory after those first 6 games of last year as Fitz was getting a lot of pro bowl votes, and not just from Bills fans. Then Jackson and Wood go on IR and the offense went into the toilet. Bell out injured, a rookie at LT ...who was also out injured awhile. Levitre moving from guard to LT to center and back to guard. Roscoe Parrish on IR again, David Nelson hurt, Scott Chandler out hurt. Seems like only a handful of players started and played in all 16 games.

 

In the first part of last year Fitz was a top ten QB, he is not the reason the team only won 6 games... the buck stops at the GM & HC.

[John from Riverside]

Names I have a problem with

 

Joe Flacco - he is NOT better then Fitz...has a good defense backing him up and all kinds of targets and STILL sucks half the time

Jay Cutler - Once again....defense backing him up

Andrew Luck - Hasn't done a thing in the NFL yet

Jack Locker - Seriously? What has he done?

Andy Dalton - He is NOT better then Fitz at this point....better targets....better defense

Carson Palmer - Uh...no....not at this stage

Griffith III - Hasn't done a thing in the NFL yet

 

Two things

 

- You cant rank QB's that haven't played an NFL down better then a veteran because until they do it you just dont know

- You see a common thing with a lot of the above NFL QB's? They had a good DEFENSE backing them up continuing to give them the ball and give them opportunities. Fitz has NOT had that....he has tried to keep a team afloat with the WORST defense in the league. You have to take chances when you do that and sometimes those chances dont pay off.

 

 

Lets see how these rankings look after this year

[timba]

Over the first seven games (including the Washington game where he got injured), Fitz completed 68.7% of his passes, at a 7.7ypa. Had 14TD 7int and a QBR of 98.4.

 

If that is what healthy starter Fitzpatrick produces, protect the man and the Bills will be fine.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Over Cutler? Are you serious about that? Cutler is exponentially a better QB than fitz. I would trade Fitz for Freeman straight up right now as well. I know he was lackluster last season but he should end up fine.

 

Cutler threw for 1500 fewer yards and had 4% lower completion percentage - 58% vs 62%. He's thrown for as many yards as Fitz-3600 in 2009 - and he led the league in INTs that year too (26 INTs to 27 TD)

You may personally prefer him, but by what objective measure of NFL play is he an "exponentially better QB than Fitz"? Because he's played on better teams? Because he was drafted in the 1st round and somehow induced the Bears to trade two 1st round picks for him?

 

I like Freeman and hope that, like Sam Bradford, he may yet develop in the NFL to match his draft position and potential. But he regressed badly this last season, and one has to ask why; his rookie season wasn't great, which gives him 1 good year out of 3. So no, at this point, I wouldn't trade Fitz for Freeman.

 

Freeman and Cutler are both good QBs, and there's no wrong in having a personal preference. Just realize that in terms of actual QB production over the last 3 yrs (not draft position or perceived potential) they are very similar to Fitz. So just as it may be silly to use the word 'amazing" and "Fitzpatrick" in the same sentence, it's just as silly to say Cutler is an exponentially better QB. Realize that in wanting to trade Fitz for Freeman straight up, you're choosing for personal preference, youth, and potential upside, not based on clear demonstrated superiority.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Hopeful

[Hapless Bills Fan]

First of all, yes I do realize whats in the article.. and thats why I said it was disheartening that I couldnt justify moving him up on that list more than 1 or 2 places

 

That's you then. Dishearten away.

 

Can you honestly say you wouldnt rather have Bradford, Locker, RGIII or Luck over Fitz? The columnist is taking potential into account and I think thats a fair thing to do.

 

I think it's fair to look at potential when you're talking about acquiring a player. I think when ranking players, you have to look at performance, and what's more, recent performance.

And so far, Bradford and Locker have not shown much in the NFL, and RGIII and Luck have shown nothing. You can't rank draft position and perceived upside.

 

If Stafford and Romo are in your top 5, who do you take out?

 

I didn't say they were in my top 5, I said they were top-5 QB this year, which is a fact: 1) Rodgers 2) Brees 3) Brady 4) Romo 5) Stafford. That being the fact, I questioned the criteria by which the author put Newton, Vick, Rivers, and Ryan above them. What's the criterion? Team wins? Completions? He likes them better? What? It's totally nuts in my book.

 

 

Can you honest say that Tony Romo belongs ahead of any of those guys?? That makes me seriously question any credibility in your argument. If anything this article is pointing out the current value of a player to his team. I would trade Fitz straight up for every guy on that list above him except for Sanchez and Palmer. I'd love to you see your list of QB rankings where Fitz falls 15.

 

You can question the credibility of my argument all you like, it would be polite if you read and understood it first instead of putting words in my mouth (ie, I didn't say I put Romo or Stafford ahead of Brees, Rodgers, the Mannings or Brady - I questioned the criteria by which the author of the rankings put him below Ryan, Vick, Newton, and Rivers.

 

However, to answer your question, I don't feel Romo belongs ahead of Brees, Rodgers, or Brady. Eli Manning is "the man" because he's playing on an overall better team and has been to "the show", but over the same career length, Romo has been a significantly better QB in every category but wins - better completion percentage, fewer INTs, better YPA, better QB rating, and he's smart and very tough. Manning had a great year this year, and Romo had a better year this year. Being on a better team doesn't make Manning a better QB.

 

Likewise, I don't feel Stafford belongs ahead of Brees, Rodgers, or Brady but putting him below Vick, Rivers, Ryan, and Newton is based on preference, not measurables. If we're ranking Newton so high because we "like him" and he played well his rookie year, it needs to be acknowledged that Stafford played better this year. And his team won more. I wouldn't put him ahead of Eli Manning even though in deliverables they're about the same, because Manning has more track record at this point. The ability to do well consistently does count for something.

 

Rating Peyton Manning highly at this point is 100% based on what was, and may never be again - kinda like throwing Brett Favre or Kurt Warner into the mix today. Peyton needs to show that he can throw in a game, and stay durable. If he does, he's right back up there. Until he does, it's like rating a rookie who has never played an NFL down. You just never know.

 

From reading this board, I've learned he is either the best ever, or history's greatest monster.

 

 

Either that, or he is what he is - a middle-of-the pack NFL QB who has flashes of brilliance and flashes of suck.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Hopeful

[#34fan]

#9 in completion % as you say, but also #23 in yards per attempt. In this case the low yards per attempt explains the high completion percentage.

Stats are wonderful things, but you have to take them all into account. Not just the ones that look good.

The QB rating is not perfect, but to say Fitz is better than his rating because of a couple cherry picked stats does not make sense either. YMMV.

 

Well said. I've mentioned Fitz's penchant for short passes before, IMO it appears to be by design. And while I can't say 100% that this is Fitz' way of padding stats, It seems to be a very effective way of maintaining his "average" QB identity.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Well said. I've mentioned Fitz's penchant for short passes before, IMO it appears to be by design. And while I can't say 100% that this is Fitz' way of padding stats, It seems to be a very effective way of maintaining his "average" QB identity.

 

Anyone who might think Fitz is "padding stats" isn't watching the games. He's all about making something happen, or trying to.

 

I agree, the short pass game appears to be by design, and is probably in part a reaction to 1) lack of WR with burner speed 2) compensating for the OL

The unanswered question is: if Fitz had time to stand back there and dial up Jimmy Johns like Brady does, how would he do with it?

 

I like Fitz, and I'm uncertain.

 

I am hopeful we can trust in David Lee.

[BuffaloBillsSD]

I think he's awesome. Always have. He does more with less. If he had some better recievers and if Chan would actually allow him to use his strengths instead of testing his weaknesses, he'd look a lot better. I consider him top 10 in the NFL and top 2 overall for Bills all time (behind Kelly, ahead of Flutie).

 

Clearly better, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, Manning, Big Ben, Stafford, Dalton, Schaub, Vick, Romo, Ryan, Newton, Rivers (14)

 

Same Class, Flacco, Cassel, Cutler, A. Smith (4)

 

Could be better, Bradford, Luck, RGIII, Locker, Freeman, Flynn (6)

 

I think Fitz is an average QB and is somewhere between 15-20.

 

Also he is NOT the 2nd best QB in Bills history, that is insanity.

[RealityCheck]

According to NFL.com...

 

Rankings

 

24) Ryan Fitzpatrick, Buffalo Bills: Look at his stats and you see a late-career bloomer. Look at his stats after his first 16 NFL games and you see why he's rounding out the bottom third. Defensive coordinators know how to slow him down. But he did go to Harvard, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as he attempts to make his own adjustments this offseason. Here's my first tip: Don't grow the beard.

 

Its always a little disheartening to see this quarterback ranking and realize that as much as we like him, Fitz does fall in the bottom third of the league as far as QBs go. I look at that list and I cant even justify moving him up that list by more than maybe 1 or 2.

They are right about one thing. Defenses have found a way to slow him down. First you got to break his ribs. Then you knockout the center and both LTs and FredEx. It sounds easy enough but can they do it 2 years in a row.

[Best Player Available]

I think he's awesome. Always have. He does more with less. If he had some better recievers and if Chan would actually allow him to use his strengths instead of testing his weaknesses, he'd look a lot better. I consider him top 10 in the NFL and top 2 overall for Bills all time (behind Kelly, ahead of Flutie).

WOW! I guess you weren't around for Jack Kemp and more recently Fergy?

[#34fan]

He's all about making something happen, or trying to.

 

More often than not, that "something" seems to be interceptions.

 

 

Fitz will have his chance to show his worth next season. If he proves me wrong I'll be the happiest man on earth. If not, I suspect you and I will be having this same conversation in the off-season.

 

The only difference being we'll both be a year older, and no closer to the playoffs. GO BILLS.

Edited April 6, 2012 by #34fan

[NoSaint]

Clearly better, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, Manning, Big Ben, Stafford, Dalton, Schaub, Vick, Romo, Ryan, Newton, Rivers (14)

 

Same Class, Flacco, Cassel, Cutler, A. Smith (4)

 

Could be better, Bradford, Luck, RGIII, Locker, Freeman, Flynn (6)

 

I think Fitz is an average QB and is somewhere between 15-20.

 

Also he is NOT the 2nd best QB in Bills history, that is insanity.

 

within a very small margin of error, i think that matches my general placement for fitz too. as i said before, once you get into fitz vs another guy in that 15-20 range its so hard to pick apart an extra couple points of completion percentage, vs who has a more talented team, vs who had a better couple weeks to finish the season and then you get into past performance vs future expectations etc.... hes solidly in the teens, for me. somewhere between mid teens and late teens. probably not into the 20s.

[Maury Ballstein]

Cutler threw for 1500 fewer yards and had 4% lower completion percentage - 58% vs 62%. He's thrown for as many yards as Fitz-3600 in 2009 - and he led the league in INTs that year too (26 INTs to 27 TD)

You may personally prefer him, but by what objective measure of NFL play is he an "exponentially better QB than Fitz"? Because he's played on better teams? Because he was drafted in the 1st round and somehow induced the Bears to trade two 1st round picks for him?

 

I like Freeman and hope that, like Sam Bradford, he may yet develop in the NFL to match his draft position and potential. But he regressed badly this last season, and one has to ask why; his rookie season wasn't great, which gives him 1 good year out of 3. So no, at this point, I wouldn't trade Fitz for Freeman.

 

Freeman and Cutler are both good QBs, and there's no wrong in having a personal preference. Just realize that in terms of actual QB production over the last 3 yrs (not draft position or perceived potential) they are very similar to Fitz. So just as it may be silly to use the word 'amazing" and "Fitzpatrick" in the same sentence, it's just as silly to say Cutler is an exponentially better QB. Realize that in wanting to trade Fitz for Freeman straight up, you're choosing for personal preference, youth, and potential upside, not based on clear demonstrated superiority.

 

 

If we are using hard stats it will be hard to quantify. IMO Bills could win Superbowl with Cutler with no doubts about it, With Fitz I don't feel the same. Yes you are correct trading with Tampa for Freeman would be a youth move for sure.

 

Cutler had no WR's for the last few years and had no OL either. I hope I am wrong but I am a little down on Fitz's abilities to play well

 

I get everyone's "first 6 weeks" stats argument, but a ton of QB's lit it up for the first couple weeks in 2011. Good luck to the Fitz backers I will standby til week 6 this year to throw my stones at this ragged armed 60 milllion dollar QB.