NeverOutNick Posted April 7, 2012 Posted April 7, 2012 Oh don't get me wrong...It's 100% certainty The Bills take a LT prospect by the end of the 4th Round...100%...I'm only questioning the value, after Kalil of course, at #10 overall...Especially where Reiff is concerned...IF they Draft an OT at #10 I'd rather see them take a flyer on Glenn to be honest...But that's a sizable gamble too...If they could somehow Trade Down, pick up an extra pick or two, and still grab Glenn I would love it...But at #10, I like Floyd, Gilmore, Kuechly, and maybe a couple more over any of these OT's not named Kalil... Agreed and if we can't trade down I'm ok with taking Glenn at 10
KOKBILLS Posted April 7, 2012 Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) I think it's implicit that when Nix says start as a rookie it means be effective starting as a rookie. JMO. I agree... But I don't always agree with Buddy...so... I think in the end, with me at least, I'm most concerned with Reiff...Because though I admit he's a decent mid-late 1st type of Prospect with good technique and smarts, I think physically and athletically he's peaked...And I think he's going to REALLY struggle at LT in the NFL...From what I see on his Film he's getting by on solid coaching, grit, and technique...That's vs. Big Ten competition...I think when he lines up across from the big boys in the NFL, he's going to get it handed to him at LT...And if that happens he does not have much room to grow athletically...Again this is JMO...But I see Reiff as a lousy value at #10 overall...Like I said, if they take a flyer I hope it's on Glenn... Edited April 7, 2012 by KOKBILLS
biggerdaddynj Posted April 7, 2012 Posted April 7, 2012 There's no surefire starter at LT at 10, Buddy doesn't like trading up and losing picks, and Sanu out of Rutgers is anything but a speed guy. Other than that, I agree with every word you wrote. Sanu = Hakeem Nicks. Not a speed guy but ran a 4.41 and 4.46 at his pro day. Not too shabby for a 6'2" 211 lbs. I take him in 2 if we go CB in 1. He's only going to get better.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 7, 2012 Posted April 7, 2012 I agree... But I don't always agree with Buddy...so... I think in the end, with me at least, I'm most concerned with Reiff...Because though I admit he's a decent mid-late 1st type of Prospect with good technique and smarts, I think physically and athletically he's peaked...And I think he's going to REALLY struggle at LT in the NFL...From what I see on his Film he's getting buy on solid coaching, grit, and technique...That's vs. Big ten competition...I think when he likes up across from the big boys in the NFL he's going to get it handed to him at LT...And if that happens he does not have much room to grow athletically...Again this is JMO...But I see Reiff as a lousy value at #10 overall...Like I said, if they take a flyer I hope it's on Glenn... I totally agree with that. I suppose I will be happy if they take any LT in round one because to me that means they love the guy. But if they're going to I hope they take Glenn or Martin. To me, if they take Glenn that means they think he can be a star. I don't think with my amatuer eyes that any of the LTs warrant the #10 pick. So I am predicting as well as hoping that the pick is Floyd. But if we do take a LT there I would prefer it not be Reiff. If it is, I will trust nix's evaluating better than my own until proven otherwise.
PDaDdy Posted April 7, 2012 Posted April 7, 2012 I agree... But I don't always agree with Buddy...so... I think in the end, with me at least, I'm most concerned with Reiff...Because though I admit he's a decent mid-late 1st type of Prospect with good technique and smarts, I think physically and athletically he's peaked...And I think he's going to REALLY struggle at LT in the NFL...From what I see on his Film he's getting by on solid coaching, grit, and technique...That's vs. Big Ten competition...I think when he lines up across from the big boys in the NFL, he's going to get it handed to him at LT...And if that happens he does not have much room to grow athletically...Again this is JMO...But I see Reiff as a lousy value at #10 overall...Like I said, if they take a flyer I hope it's on Glenn... I am not big of Reif. Unfortunately I wouldn't be surprised if we did pick him but I'm not in love with it. I totally agree with that. I suppose I will be happy if they take any LT in round one because to me that means they love the guy. But if they're going to I hope they take Glenn or Martin. To me, if they take Glenn that means they think he can be a star. I don't think with my amatuer eyes that any of the LTs warrant the #10 pick. So I am predicting as well as hoping that the pick is Floyd. But if we do take a LT there I would prefer it not be Reiff. If it is, I will trust nix's evaluating better than my own until proven otherwise. Honestly I just hope that Floyd is available for us to pick. I could easily see the Jaguars or the Dolphins taking him.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 7, 2012 Posted April 7, 2012 I think in the end, with me at least, I'm most concerned with Reiff...Because though I admit he's a decent mid-late 1st type of Prospect with good technique and smarts, I think physically and athletically he's peaked...And I think he's going to REALLY struggle at LT in the NFL...From what I see on his Film he's getting by on solid coaching, grit, and technique...That's vs. Big Ten competition...I think when he lines up across from the big boys in the NFL, he's going to get it handed to him at LT...And if that happens he does not have much room to grow athletically...Again this is JMO...But I see Reiff as a lousy value at #10 overall...Like I said, if they take a flyer I hope it's on Glenn... Yep. AFAIC, he's ceilinged out It's the Peter Principle applied to playing offensive tackle.
PDaDdy Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Fair enough...But let me ask you this...Knowing what you know now about Hairston, where do you think he would go in THIS Draft? I'm guessing it would be a LOT higher than the 4th Round...A LOT higher... So what's the alternative? Because I seriously doubt anyone in this Draft not name Kalil could beat out Hairston at this point...Free Agency is about done...I think your fear about Hairston is warranted in a way...It is the LT Position, and it's VERY important...But lets face it...There have been FAR more amazing come-from-nowhere stories in the NFL than a 4th Round Draft Pick rising to start at LT... You may be fighting the inevitable...Be happy Hairston got the experience he did in 2011...And hope for the best... Actually I did some digging around for what little it is worth. Hairston had a 2 star rating and was listed as the 16th best tackle in the 2011 draft. Looking at this years draft the 2 star OTs are looking like 5th round picks and as low as UFA. I don't think Hairston would be anymore highly ranked than last year.
Lurker Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 It's the Peter Principle applied to playing offensive tackle. Agreed. Good player, more a product of Iowa's offensive system than a true LOT. It may even be that said system is the reason he's been hyped so much by draft gurus ("Hey, he's an Iowa lineman--he must be good!").
DefenseWins Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 There's no question we need depth at LT. I think there's also no question that Nix and Co are committed to standing by their board, and not doing what the rest of the league thinks they should. Correction: We need a STARTER at LT - Depth is what Chris Hairston is about to become. I do in fact like Hairston - long term - as a RT and Swing Backup T... Let's face facts - Buddy's 1st Draft still has ZERO starters... Last years draft was a vast improvement and may result in 3 starters very soon... (Dareus, Aaron Williams and Sheppard) with Hairston in a key backup role... For the record, I don't see either Blackmon or Floyd even being there at #10...
KOKBILLS Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Actually I did some digging around for what little it is worth. Hairston had a 2 star rating and was listed as the 16th best tackle in the 2011 draft. Looking at this years draft the 2 star OTs are looking like 5th round picks and as low as UFA. I don't think Hairston would be anymore highly ranked than last year. I think you misunderstood what I was asking... I was not asking where Hairston would go this year coming out of College again...I was asking where he would go this year knowing he started 7 games at LT in the NFL, and looked alright doing so...Knowing what you NOW know about him...Where would he go compared to this bunch coming out...Because regardless of what anybody thinks of Hairstons future at LT, he WAY overachieved as a Rookie based on where he was Drafted... I think he would be a 1st Round Pick now...Maybe late 1st...But 1st nonetheless...I really do...
PDaDdy Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) I think you misunderstood what I was asking... I was not asking where Hairston would go this year coming out of College again...I was asking where he would go this year knowing he started 7 games at LT in the NFL, and looked alright doing so...Knowing what you NOW know about him...Where would he go compared to this bunch coming out...Because regardless of what anybody thinks of Hairstons future at LT, he WAY overachieved as a Rookie based on where he was Drafted... I think he would be a 1st Round Pick now...Maybe late 1st...But 1st nonetheless...I really do... Ah, I see. Eh, I'm even less sure about providing anything resembling a useful or meaningful answer. He has shown what he could do with no offseason etc and he was thrown into the fire due to injury. I guess seeing him in some NFL games would remove some question marks in your hypothetical scenario but I still don't know that he would go that much higher. As with most players it is too early to tell if they will continue to get it and improve or eventually become a no name. Purely speculative but anyone that would have a chance to start over him would likely have to come out of the first 2 rounds or maybe getting lucky and hitting the lottery on some guy in the 3rd. Buddy did say he thinks there are 2 or 3 guys that could be starters at LT in this years draft if I am not mistaken. Kalil is one of them. I'm not sure who the other 1 or 2 are. I assume by this he means "could start over Hairston". We'll see if we reach, according to experts, for one of those guys at #10 or if Buddy thinks there is a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round that could be had to man the spot. I just have a bad feeling about Reiff and hope it's not him that Buddy thinks could come in and start. There could be better players at their respective positions in the first round at other areas of need for us. I would prefer Floyd, Keuchly or even a guy like Mercilus if he could play OLB in the 4-3! Edited April 9, 2012 by PDaDdy
Lurker Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 And this is why I'm worried about taking a WR at 10...
Santana Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 I agree in the whole tackle thing, but I don't see Reiff as being a LT. He's definitely more of a right tackle than anything. Any tackle they take at the spot is a bit of a reach, I don't think it makes sense to draft a RT that early. I'd rather just draft DeCastro if that's the case. Buffalo needs a deep threat or maybe even a LB or CB. They have a lot of different options, honestly they should just pick the best player available. We need depth at every single posistion.
Bill from NYC Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 I think you misunderstood what I was asking... I was not asking where Hairston would go this year coming out of College again...I was asking where he would go this year knowing he started 7 games at LT in the NFL, and looked alright doing so...Knowing what you NOW know about him...Where would he go compared to this bunch coming out...Because regardless of what anybody thinks of Hairstons future at LT, he WAY overachieved as a Rookie based on where he was Drafted... I think he would be a 1st Round Pick now...Maybe late 1st...But 1st nonetheless...I really do... This is an impossible question to truly answer, but I like it! I am guessing mid to late second round. Only because it is still very hard to gauge his agility, and I focused on him a lot, believe me. Hairston is a bruiser, but honestly, so is Pears. Dareus said that Pears should have been in the probowl. Questions, and threads like this really do point to, and spell out the difficulty in acquiring a left tackle. And these guys fly off the board early almost every season. After the Bengals drafted Levi Jones at #10 in 2002, commentators were calling him a "reach." He turned out to be a steal.
Wayne Cubed Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 And this is why I'm worried about taking a WR at 10... To be quite honest, you could take that same formula he used for WR's and apply it to LT's. In fact thats just what I did. Take a look at LT's taken with picks 6-15(I only went as far back as 2008): 2011: Tyron Smith - Was plugged into RT and did an OK job. Probably moves to LT this season. 2010: Russell Okung - Caught a bit of the injury bug. Is doing OK, certainly not pro-bowl caliber. Anthony Davis - Is now playing RT. 2009: Eugene Monroe - Inconsistant play at best. Andre Smith - Again, is now playing RT. 2008: Ryan Clady - Best one selected. Made Pro Bowl in 2011 as alternate Chris Williams - Is playing G now. Branden Albert - Is doing ok at LT for the Chiefs. So thats 1 pro bowl appearance out of 9 LT's. What does it all mean? The draft is a crap shoot. The Bills need a day 1 starter at LT, otherwise whats the point? Maybe the Bills shouldn't select a LT based on the outcomes of previous LT's selected between 6-15.
Lurker Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 To be quite honest, you could take that same formula he used for WR's and apply it to LT's. In fact thats just what I did. Take a look at LT's taken with picks 6-15(I only went as far back as 2008): 2011: Tyron Smith - Was plugged into RT and did an OK job. Probably moves to LT this season. 2010: Russell Okung - Caught a bit of the injury bug. Is doing OK, certainly not pro-bowl caliber. Anthony Davis - Is now playing RT. 2009: Eugene Monroe - Inconsistant play at best. Andre Smith - Again, is now playing RT. 2008: Ryan Clady - Best one selected. Made Pro Bowl in 2011 as alternate Chris Williams - Is playing G now. Branden Albert - Is doing ok at LT for the Chiefs. So thats 1 pro bowl appearance out of 9 LT's. What does it all mean? The draft is a crap shoot. The Bills need a day 1 starter at LT, otherwise whats the point? Maybe the Bills shouldn't select a LT based on the outcomes of previous LT's selected between 6-15. Not so much worried about Pro Bowl appearences (it's a popularity, "I've heard of him" contest that favors veterans over younger players) but that they're effective starters early in their careers with the potential to play multiple roles/positions as they develop. O-linemen can do that more effectively than wideouts, IMO.
Wayne Cubed Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 Not so much worried about Pro Bowl appearences (it's a popularity, "I've heard of him" contest that favors veterans over younger players) but that they're effective starters early in their careers with the potential to play multiple roles/positions as they develop. O-linemen can do that more effectively than wideouts, IMO. I only mentioned Pro Bowls, because thats what the article linked seemed to use as a base point. Some of the WR's that have been picked 6-15 had/have good career numbers and would be an acceptable #2 WR in the Bills offense today.
Lurker Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 acceptable #2 WR Seems like a waste of a top-10 pick if that's the most likely outcome...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 Agreed. Good player, more a product of Iowa's offensive system than a true LOT. It may even be that said system is the reason he's been hyped so much by draft gurus ("Hey, he's an Iowa lineman--he must be good!"). The one thing i like about Reiff is he was a stud wrestler. This is one thing that can really help an offensive lineman. Oline, as we all know is about leverage. Size and strength are important, but its about moving your guy to somewhere he does not want to go. Dline man in the NFL are big and strong, it usually comes down to who gets the best postioning of hands and who gets lower. Having said all that, i am still not sold on Reiff, would rather Glenn. he has more upside and versatility.
seq004 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Posted April 11, 2012 The one thing i like about Reiff is he was a stud wrestler. This is one thing that can really help an offensive lineman. Oline, as we all know is about leverage. Size and strength are important, but its about moving your guy to somewhere he does not want to go. Dline man in the NFL are big and strong, it usually comes down to who gets the best postioning of hands and who gets lower. Having said all that, i am still not sold on Reiff, would rather Glenn. he has more upside and versatility. I would not be surprised if the Bills traded up for Kalil. If Nix feels the other tackles are not worth a top 10 pick then maybe he trades out of that spot and grabs Kalil and solidifies the line for years.
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