PDaDdy Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Perhaps my memory is fading....did Hairston not continue to start even when Bell was healthy? Yes, you're memory is fading. When Bell was healthy he was the starter. He played a little coming back from injury in week 14 and he started weeks 15 and 16. I think he got hurt again or something as Hairston started week 17. Basically when Bell was healthy enough which was rare he was the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 IMO, the only guy that can do what you speak of is Kalil. I'm not a huge fan of giving up picks, but I'd trade our 1 and 2 to get our stud LT of the present and future. It would be great if we could use our picks this year and fill all of our holes (lt, Wr, OLB, and maybe cb), but it's unlikely we hit on all of our picks. Drafting Reiff, Martin, Glenn or Adams might yield us a good player, but it might not. If we spend a 1st rd pick on a tackle, I'd rather give up our 2nd and secure the best in the draft....by far The problem with your trade is, the team we must trade with need a LT as bad as we do. But, getting the premier LT in the draft would be worth the trade price IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 IMO Bell wasn't good enough in large part due to his injury history and he was the clear starter over our 2nd 4th round pick rookie Hairston. Bell wasn't good enough and Hairston couldn't even beat him out for the starting job. Wow! This is some priceless observation here... So...You're critical of a 4th Round Draft Pick because he did not beat out a 2 year incumbent?...Incumbent LT mind you...Even though the Rookie had no off-season training, no mini-camps, and an abbreviated Training Camp due to injury?...The same Rookie comes in and starts 7 Games when Bell goes down...And when Bell came back they split time the rest of the way (at least while Bell was healthy). And this is proof to you that Hairston is not good enough to deserve some optimism? Because he could not beat out Bell as a Rookie? Okey doke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 There's no surefire starter at LT at 10, Buddy doesn't like trading up and losing picks, and Sanu out of Rutgers is anything but a speed guy. Other than that, I agree with every word you wrote. I would love Sanu in the second round. He is physical as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Wow! This is some priceless observation here... So...You're critical of a 4th Round Draft Pick because he did not beat out a 2 year incumbent?...Incumbent LT mind you...Even though the Rookie had no off-season training, no mini-camps, and an abbreviated Training Camp due to injury?...The same Rookie comes in and starts 7 Games when Bell goes down...And when Bell came back they split time the rest of the way (at least while Bell was healthy). And this is proof to you that Hairston is not good enough to deserve some optimism? Because he could not beat out Bell as a Rookie? Okey doke... I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. You have reiterated my point. He was a 4th round pick rookie. This wild optimism about a 4th round pick rookie IS the problem or I should say RELYING on it. Unless coach Gailey and Nix know something that we haven't seen on the field we just can't do that. Hairston could be good. Hell, he could be great ...EVENTUALLY! In my opinion it is one hell of a gamble to take. We can't go into the season trying to make a playoff push with this guy as the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. You have reiterated my point. He was a 4th round pick rookie. This wild optimism about a 4th round pick rookie IS the problem or I should say RELYING on it. Unless coach Gailey and Nix know something that we haven't seen on the field we just can't do that. Hairston could be good. Hell, he could be great ...EVENTUALLY! In my opinion it is one hell of a gamble to take. We can't go into the season trying to make a playoff push with this guy as the starter. Fair enough...But let me ask you this...Knowing what you know now about Hairston, where do you think he would go in THIS Draft? I'm guessing it would be a LOT higher than the 4th Round...A LOT higher... So what's the alternative? Because I seriously doubt anyone in this Draft not name Kalil could beat out Hairston at this point...Free Agency is about done...I think your fear about Hairston is warranted in a way...It is the LT Position, and it's VERY important...But lets face it...There have been FAR more amazing come-from-nowhere stories in the NFL than a 4th Round Draft Pick rising to start at LT... You may be fighting the inevitable...Be happy Hairston got the experience he did in 2011...And hope for the best... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Taking a guy who is likely the best receiver in the draft at pick 10 is something you don't get to do too often. If Floyd is there you have to take him. Not that I wouldn't want a top 10 caliber LT instead. But there is only one top 10 LT in this draft and he is being drafted by the Vikings. The impact Floyd has on the offense is greater than the one a second tier LT would have. Take the player that will have the greatest impact on the offense. The LT's that will likely be available just aren't worth the 10 slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I would love Sanu in the second round. He is physical as hell. Sanu= SLOW. We need more speed. Combine time was horrible. We have receivers already better, alot faster than him. Rutgers says it all. Rutgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I'm all for taking a LT for the reasons stated above, but it's pretty clear Nix prefers to take BPA in first round. Given the dearth of first-round LTs, I would be surprised if we didn't take BPA. Remember the franchise has a history of reaching for need and that hasn't worked out real well for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Draft DeCastro and move Levitre to tackle if it becomes necessary. It will also give you incredible flexibility if Wood comes in subpar, which is always a possibility. Yes, Levitre has short arms but he's performed decently at tackle when he's had to. Levitre was horrible at LT. If you look at the games, Bills offense completely changed when Hairston got injured and Levitre moved over. The pressure from the left side was more constant and Fitz was definitely more skittish. There was a huge drop off in line play when Levitre subbed in for Hairston, but very little change from Bell to Hairston. Bills definitely need to add more tackles this year. I'm not convinced it should be in the firtst round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Sanu= SLOW. We need more speed. Combine time was horrible. We have receivers already better, alot faster than him. Rutgers says it all. Rutgers. I agree with everything you said except your Rutgers bashing. The ability for a wide receiver to separate is perhaps the position's most essential skill. Nothing is more irrelevant than where a player went to school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Levitre was horrible at LT. If you look at the games, Bills offense completely changed when Hairston got injured and Levitre moved over. The pressure from the left side was more constant and Fitz was definitely more skittish. There was a huge drop off in line play when Levitre subbed in for Hairston, but very little change from Bell to Hairston. Bills definitely need to add more tackles this year. I'm not convinced it should be in the firtst round. Agreed! Like I've said a million times now, Hairston is being WAY undervalued by everyone...He could not have come into a worse situation last season as a Rookie (no off-season, no mini camps, hurt in training camp, pushed in to START at LT for several games), and he came out looking pretty good...They say players improve more from their 1st to 2nd season than any other year...So I have a feeling Hairston is going to make another HUGE step in 2012...And he'll have to, for sure... Plus, where would he go NOW in THIS Draft? I think he might be a 1st Round Pick in this Draft...Knowing what we know now...Just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 he came out looking pretty good... The tallest midget in Lilliput was a pretty good basketball player as well. Hairston's a valuable member of the team. He exceeded expectations in 2011--but those expectations weren't that high based on his draft position and lack of OTAs. He's a nice swing guy with the potential to be a good RT, IMO. But if Nix really wants to "win now," he needs to ensure there's sufficient talent on the OL, especially given the potential for Wood to have a setback in his rehab. Considering 1-2 of the OL starters will probably miss some time in 2012 (it would be a rare event not to), I think adding a guy like Glenn, Reiff or even DeCastro would be the best option to keep the season from collapsing should the injury bug hit. I trust Chan to find a way to cover up a lack of WR talent--but I don't think he can do it at O-line with scheme and play calling alone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 So name me the great would-be NFL LT that will be available at #10 overall, come in as a Rookie, and beat out Hairston? Because I don't think that guy exists in this Draft... Nix said there were 2-3 guys. One is Kalil. That leaves 1-2 left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) Fair enough...But let me ask you this...Knowing what you know now about Hairston, where do you think he would go in THIS Draft? I'm guessing it would be a LOT higher than the 4th Round...A LOT higher... So what's the alternative? Because I seriously doubt anyone in this Draft not name Kalil could beat out Hairston at this point...Free Agency is about done...I think your fear about Hairston is warranted in a way...It is the LT Position, and it's VERY important...But lets face it...There have been FAR more amazing come-from-nowhere stories in the NFL than a 4th Round Draft Pick rising to start at LT... You may be fighting the inevitable...Be happy Hairston got the experience he did in 2011...And hope for the best... Come from nowhere situations do happen but it's not something I would want to bank on. I have no idea where Hairston would be drafted this year. All I can say is he was a 4th round pick based on scouting projections last year. I don't love the talent at the top of this years draft class other than Kalil but the rest of the talent left in the 3rd and 4th rounds may not be any better or worse values than last year. I guess the only way to even attempt to project where he might go in this years draft would be based on his scouts.com rating or some similar. I don't think any of us have explored the draft and OT talent through 4 or 5 rounds in this and last year's draft to make our own assessment that would be worth anything. It would all just be pure speculation. I am glad he got some experience last year but I just don't feel that counting on him is a good strategy if we are trying to get to the play offs this year which truly appears to be the goal for once. He's already on the team and I hope that he does REALLY well. I wouldn't base my retirement plan on hitting the lottery or a come out of nowhere bet and I wouldn't want to rely so heavily on a potential come out of nowhere 4th round second year LT. It's not quite as big of a gamble as all that but it is perhaps too big of a risk. Edited April 7, 2012 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Levitre was horrible at LT. If you look at the games, Bills offense completely changed when Hairston got injured and Levitre moved over. The pressure from the left side was more constant and Fitz was definitely more skittish. There was a huge drop off in line play when Levitre subbed in for Hairston, but very little change from Bell to Hairston. Bills definitely need to add more tackles this year. I'm not convinced it should be in the firtst round. I like Hairston's potential a lot, and he could be very good. His first attempt at playing LT for the Bills was a revelation. He really played pretty well, especially for a rookie, and the offense didn't miss much of a beat. Then he got hurt. His second stint as a starter he was not quite as good, which is why Gailey said this off season he is really not ready. He has all the tools, but to me he is not ready to start and be a full time LT, which is why we are looking strongly at LT in the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) Agreed! Like I've said a million times now, Hairston is being WAY undervalued by everyone...He could not have come into a worse situation last season as a Rookie (no off-season, no mini camps, hurt in training camp, pushed in to START at LT for several games), and he came out looking pretty good...They say players improve more from their 1st to 2nd season than any other year...So I have a feeling Hairston is going to make another HUGE step in 2012...And he'll have to, for sure... Plus, where would he go NOW in THIS Draft? I think he might be a 1st Round Pick in this Draft...Knowing what we know now...Just saying... What do we do if he doesn't make the purely speculative expected big jump or gets hurt? Edited April 7, 2012 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Nix said there were 2-3 guys. One is Kalil. That leaves 1-2 left. And that's Buddy's opinion... Seriously though, start as a Rookie 2-3 seems right...Be effective starting as a rookie?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 What do we do if he doesn't make the purely speculative expected big jump or gets hurt? Oh don't get me wrong...It's 100% certainty The Bills take a LT prospect by the end of the 4th Round...100%...I'm only questioning the value, after Kalil of course, at #10 overall...Especially where Reiff is concerned...IF they Draft an OT at #10 I'd rather see them take a flyer on Glenn to be honest...But that's a sizable gamble too...If they could somehow Trade Down, pick up an extra pick or two, and still grab Glenn I would love it...But at #10, I like Floyd, Gilmore, Kuechly, and maybe a couple more over any of these OT's not named Kalil... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 And that's Buddy's opinion... Seriously though, start as a Rookie 2-3 seems right...Be effective starting as a rookie?... I think it's implicit that when Nix says start as a rookie it means be effective starting as a rookie. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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