DrDawkinstein Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 '1333564671' post='2430182']Just keep in mind that we got guys like Jonas Jennings in the 2nd round......and Bell and Peters were complete afterthoughts.[/b] Another thing I am really wondering is just how high the bills are on Hairston actually being the starting LT.....because if he is the guy....then what we are really looking for is a swing OT to bring along behind him. Yep, exactly! And if we were able to find Hairston in the 4th, I think we can find another OT somewhere in the 2nd-4th range. This team needs to find TALENT with their first pick, not just plug a whole with "some guy".
Johnny Hammersticks Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 How many of our #1 picks other than Whitner have been All Pros? :wallbash: Whitner....an all-pro? There's a HUGE difference between being selected as an alternate to a pro-bowl, and being selected as an all-pro.
thebandit27 Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 For the love of Marv, how many times do I have to say it.... RILEY REIFF IS A RIGHT TACKLE! He played Right Tackle in college; never Left. He has short arms. He is a Bryan Bulaga clone. Bryan Bulaga played Right Tackle in college for Iowa and still plays Right Tackle in the pros. We do not need a Right Tackle. We need a left tackle. Collegiate Left Tackles can be moved to Right Tackle and sometimes Guard. But a collegiate Right Tackle rarely (if ever) upgrades to Left Tackle in the pros. Seriously people, please stop looking at who most have projected as the next best Tackle after Matt Kallil without doing the homework as to whether or not the player is an actual fit. ....... Tackle. You actually should stop saying it altogether, since that's completely incorrect. A simple youtube search for 2011 Riley Reiff highlights would show you that he played left tackel both junior and senior year at Iowa, as would a simple google search. In fact, he made the switch to left tackle as a sophomore at Iowa after 7 starts at left guard and 1 start at right tackle. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1695597 You are also completely incorrect about Brian Bulaga, who also started at LT for 2 years at Iowa. http://www.hawkeyesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/bulaga_bryan00.html You are also completely incorrect about his body type making him incapable of playing LT in the NFL, as you can easily reference guys like Michael Roos, Jordan Gross, Chad Clifton, Donald Penn, Jeff Backus, Matt Light, and Joe Thomas for similar arm length (all between 33 and 33.5"). I cite the Nolan Nawrocki arm length article of yore (which I cannot find the original online, but found it copied on a few message boards): http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/33866-Arm-length-hand-quickness-dictate-OLT-success http://www.clanram.com/forums/f85/interesting-take-arm-length-not-much-difference-between-munroe-smith-36123/ In fact, I'd say that you should simply state that your opinion is that he's not suited to play LT in the NFL and leave it at that, since everything you said is pretty much wrong.
2003Contenders Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 So much misinformation and conflicting views out there about Reiff. What I will say is that over the last couple of years, the Bills have done a pretty job finding decent linemen. I trust the Bills talent evaluators to make a good decision about whether or not to draft (or whomever) when the pick comes in at 10. I don't see Buddy reaching.
NewEra Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 1333568963[/url]' post='2430280']Yep, exactly! And if we were able to find Hairston in the 4th, I think we can find another OT somewhere in the 2nd-4th range. This team needs to find TALENT with their first pick, not just plug a whole with "some guy". This
thebandit27 Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 Reiff's character issues make him undraftable. (Let alone his inability to play LT in the NFL) http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1695597 Not undraftable, but definitely someone whose character should be evaluated much more closely than other "clean" prospects. How quickly these fickle fans forget the lessons learned from past drafts... DO NOT reach based on need in the 1st round. ESPECIALLY in the top-10. If Kalil is there, fine. Otherwise, it is Buddy's duty to the franchise to choose the most elite talent on the board with that early pick. I cant believe anyone would be willing to settle for a "lesser" player after the travesty of our drafts over the last 15 years. So many great examples listed on the first page. For shame! Not disagreeing with your basic point, but how will you feel if Nix believes Reiff is the best fit at No. 10? Just curious to hear your opinion... He's played LT at Iowa: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1695597/riley-reiff Even the video's on youtube are of him playing LT. Also, Bulaga: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1243680 Thank you; this has become an all-to-common misconception.
JPS Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 Im not on the floyd wagon. Id take Ingram/ gilmore then jeffrey @ 41. And Antonio Allen in the 3rd, Stephen Garcia in the 4th and Joey Scribner-Howard in the 7th. You are true to your name, my friend. I hate all the posts about how we need to draft Reiff. Why would you reach for a fairly solid guard? At least pick the best guard in the draft if you're going interior lineman! Reiff is far too compact and has too short of arms to be a good OT in this league. For all the people saying that we shouldn't draft Keuchly, because we need an OLB instead of a MLB, Keuchly projects to any of the three LB spots in a 4-3. If we drafted him, he'd come in and start immediately at OLB. Gilmore, although good, is by no means BPA and therefore won't be the pick. Unless one of the elite players drop to us, if the Bills go BPA, it will be Keuchly, Decastro, or Floyd. If they go for need, it will be Floyd, Martin or (god forbid) Reiff, or possibly Keuchly. Nobody is saying Reiff is a guard. RT maybe.
DrDawkinstein Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) So much misinformation and conflicting views out there about Reiff. What I will say is that over the last couple of years, the Bills have done a pretty job finding decent linemen. I trust the Bills talent evaluators to make a good decision about whether or not to draft (or whomever) when the pick comes in at 10. I don't see Buddy reaching. I will give you that. No matter what we say here, if the Bills do pick Reiff at 10, we can all be confident that the FO thinks he's the best available player/option. Not disagreeing with your basic point, but how will you feel if Nix believes Reiff is the best fit at No. 10? Just curious to hear your opinion... Ha! Was just addressing that in my last post. I trust Nix's expert judgement over my own, and anyone else here. IF Reiff is the pick, I'm fine with it I guess. I may covet other flashier players, but I'll give them the whole draft before judging. I just dont believe that it should be a "guaranteed pick" just because Bell went somewhere else. Edited April 4, 2012 by DrDareustein
JPS Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 You actually should stop saying it altogether, since that's completely incorrect. A simple youtube search for 2011 Riley Reiff highlights would show you that he played left tackel both junior and senior year at Iowa, as would a simple google search. In fact, he made the switch to left tackle as a sophomore at Iowa after 7 starts at left guard and 1 start at right tackle. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1695597 You are also completely incorrect about Brian Bulaga, who also started at LT for 2 years at Iowa. http://www.hawkeyesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/bulaga_bryan00.html You are also completely incorrect about his body type making him incapable of playing LT in the NFL, as you can easily reference guys like Michael Roos, Jordan Gross, Chad Clifton, Donald Penn, Jeff Backus, Matt Light, and Joe Thomas for similar arm length (all between 33 and 33.5"). I cite the Nolan Nawrocki arm length article of yore (which I cannot find the original online, but found it copied on a few message boards): http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/33866-Arm-length-hand-quickness-dictate-OLT-success http://www.clanram.com/forums/f85/interesting-take-arm-length-not-much-difference-between-munroe-smith-36123/ In fact, I'd say that you should simply state that your opinion is that he's not suited to play LT in the NFL and leave it at that, since everything you said is pretty much wrong. Thanks. My BS meter was on 9 and you took care of it for me.
thebandit27 Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 Ha! Was just addressing that in my last post. I trust Nix's expert judgement over my own, and anyone else here. IF Reiff is the pick, I'm fine with it I guess. I may covet other flashier players, but I'll give them the whole draft before judging. I just dont believe that it should be a "guaranteed pick" just because Bell went somewhere else. That's the exact feeling I have on the whole draft.
RealityCheck Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 How quickly these fickle fans forget the lessons learned from past drafts... DO NOT reach based on need in the 1st round. ESPECIALLY in the top-10. If Kalil is there, fine. Otherwise, it is Buddy's duty to the franchise to choose the most elite talent on the board with that early pick. I cant believe anyone would be willing to settle for a "lesser" player after the travesty of our drafts over the last 15 years. So many great examples listed on the first page. For shame! So true. Buddy will be looking for an elite playmaker at 10.
thebandit27 Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 I was responding to reaching for need with the 2nd or 3rd available player. Technically Whitner doesn't count, since he was the No. 1 guy picked for the DB need, as Jauron made it clear he wanted to build his new defense around the next Mike Brown. Travares Tillman is the better example, since Bills panicked after the run on safeties in that draft. The Raiders drafted Michael Huff one pick before Whitner.
MRW Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 Reiff's character issues make him undraftable. (Let alone his inability to play LT in the NFL) http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1695597 I dunno man, that shows pretty good endurance. Maybe that should be a new event at the combine.
BobChalmers Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 Probably was a reach, he [Whitner] was considered borderline first rounder. Wow - this thread leads the league in bad facts. Baltimore was all set to take Whitner at 13. He was not going to get anywhere near the 2nd round.
KOKBILLS Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 We are picking Reiff/DeCastro in round 1. If they are both gone that would be quite a bad thing but one or both should still be there . There are 15-20 receivers in this draft with good talent. There are not very many starting tackles. Take the lineman or you don't get one.. Simple as that. Regardless of the perceived need, I doubt The Bills take Reiff and I SERIOUSLY doubt they take DeCastro...Hairston will start at LT...The Bills will Draft a back-up somewhere between Rounds 2-4...But I'm guessing it will be in the 2nd or 3rd...They can still sign a stop-gap UFA as well for depth... The other possibility is Trading Down from #10, and collecting an extra 2nd or 3rd...Then I could see them taking a OT in the 1st...But after Kalil there is no value at OT at #10...Just none...Not Reiff, Martin, Adams, or Glenn...And I doubt Buddy reaches knowing there will be a player there at #10 that can step right in and Start immediately (like Gilmore, Floyd, or Kuechly)...Just my opinion...But don't assume it's going to be Reiff or DeCastro...The Bills were prepared to go with Hairston already...And I doubt any of these prospect OT's could beat him out anyway...Hairston was a Rookie last year playing off NO Mini-Camps, a Training Camp injury and he played pretty well...He'll be more experienced, in better shape, and better prepared this year... Maybe I'm wrong...But I doubt it...
KOKBILLS Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 In fact, I'd say that you should simply state that your opinion is that he's not suited to play LT in the NFL and leave it at that, since everything you said is pretty much wrong. That's exactly it...He's not suited...Even some of his biggest fans, Scouts like Mayock that LOVE the guy, don't feel he's an NFL LT...It's not about his arms, or his build necessarily...It's about his ability to handle speed and power off the edge vs. the best the NFL has to offer at your QB's blindside...I honestly don't think there is any way Reiff could be a better NFL LT than Hairston...Especially as a Rookie, and especially after the experience Hairston got last Season...Just my opinion though...
Doc Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 No LT at 10. Kalil is the only 1st round LT and he'll be gone by 10.
CarolinaBill Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 All S. Carolina players coming from the poster with the handle "CarolinaBill". No bias there, huh? Too funny. If the Bills take Ingram at 10 after their additions in free agency then they are complete morons. And 10 is a bit high for Gilmore too. Jeffery?? Hello James Hardy part 2!! Ive been pretty upfront about my USC homerism. However, Ingram IS the top rated OLB pass rusher, and we do have a need at olb, its not the most pressing need though. Also, consider the fact that most teams do not run base d for the majority of any game, that means more sub packages where Ingram can line up all over the field and rush the passer. In respect to Gilmore, #10 is not too high for a position of Major need, and considering his resume and skill set. Now, would I like to move down and get him, absolutely, but I dont believe Nix is inclined to do that. Finally, Alshon Jeffrey is NOT james hardy, hes a big physical target, that will go over the middle, high point the ball, which is great in the red zone, he has a knack for finding soft spots in the zone and can win his routes when covered, which means that although he may not always get that coveted separation, hes open even when hes not.
thebandit27 Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 That's exactly it...He's not suited...Even some of his biggest fans, Scouts like Mayock that LOVE the guy, don't feel he's an NFL LT...It's not about his arms, or his build necessarily...It's about his ability to handle speed and power off the edge vs. the best the NFL has to offer at your QB's blindside...I honestly don't think there is any way Reiff could be a better NFL LT than Hairston...Especially as a Rookie, and especially after the experience Hairston got last Season...Just my opinion though... And if that's your reasoning then so be it; I have absolutely no problem with someone else's honest assessment. I just refuse to allow the "he's never played LT" and "nobody with 33.5-inch arms can play LT" arguments to be stated without opposition when it's obviously not true. I myself am not sure if Reiff can play LT, but I'm more open to it than most others appear to be. Again, I have to trust Nix's judgement on this one. Ive been pretty upfront about my USC homerism. However, Ingram IS the top rated OLB pass rusher, and we do have a need at olb, its not the most pressing need though. Also, consider the fact that most teams do not run base d for the majority of any game, that means more sub packages where Ingram can line up all over the field and rush the passer. In respect to Gilmore, #10 is not too high for a position of Major need, and considering his resume and skill set. Now, would I like to move down and get him, absolutely, but I dont believe Nix is inclined to do that. Finally, Alshon Jeffrey is NOT james hardy, hes a big physical target, that will go over the middle, high point the ball, which is great in the red zone, he has a knack for finding soft spots in the zone and can win his routes when covered, which means that although he may not always get that coveted separation, hes open even when hes not. Not for nothin', but go back and read a draft prospect profile of James Hardy...literally what you just wrote here.
CarolinaBill Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 And Antonio Allen in the 3rd, Stephen Garcia in the 4th and Joey Scribner-Howard in the 7th. You are true to your name, my friend. if you want beer pong lessons garcia is the man. Seriously though, after looking at what SHOULD be available, id really like to see Osweiler in the third And if that's your reasoning then so be it; I have absolutely no problem with someone else's honest assessment. I just refuse to allow the "he's never played LT" and "nobody with 33.5-inch arms can play LT" arguments to be stated without opposition when it's obviously not true. I myself am not sure if Reiff can play LT, but I'm more open to it than most others appear to be. Again, I have to trust Nix's judgement on this one. Not for nothin', but go back and read a draft prospect profile of James Hardy...literally what you just wrote here. It should be noted that hardy was a basketballer that tried football, Alshon Spurned Southern Cal for USC, and was very highly recruited, and scouted, this past yr however was a disaster statistically, except tds.
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