If Fitz doesn't improve

[T master]

If Fitz, who I believe just doesn't have the arm to get the job done, can't get us to the superbowl there are still ways to get a good good QB without drafting in the top ten, because I doubt we will be there any time soon. A top QB could acquired if a Good QB has an injury and his team doesn't want him anymore like Peyton and Brees. Maybe Roethlisberger gets killed again behind that line cuz they need upgrades everywhere but center and they can't do it in one year. Or guys like Mallett or Skelton become trade bait, really wish we would have drafted Mallett over Sheppard and am really Glad we got Ed Wang and Levi Brown over Skelton. Then there is the Chance that we get a mid round prospect that becomes a star like Joe Montana and Brady, Guys like Kirk Cousins, Brock Osweiler, B.J. Coleman and Nick Foles.

My greatest hope is Fitz turns into Drew Brees but if that doesn't happen we are going to need an upgrade at the QB position.

 

Even if Fitz does do well or better this year & in the next couple of years i think we can do A LOT BETTER at our #2 QB position than Thigpen so with the thoughts of Tannehil or Osweiler (which we know Osweiler will be a late rounder) going in a later round i would be all for taking one of them to sit behind Fitz for a year or 2 to develope like they use to do in the NFL ..

 

We need to look at the future Fitz COULD be a good QB for a while but we need one to be that guy & like the Pats if we have a good one in waiting we may be able to use him for trade bait later on if another RG or Luck comes along in a year or 2 --- who knows ??

[thewildrabbit]

I think the problem is more mechanics than time (though more time would certainly help any QB). Look at Fitz's throwing motion then look at Marcias, or Eli's, or Peytons, or even Dirty Sanchez's. It's that odd 3/4 delivery in my opinion, not over the top like the others, that makes Fitz inaccurate. Try it yourself, throw a football with a 3/4 delivery then throw over the top to see what I mean. The further you have to throw it Fitz's way, the more difficult it becomes.

 

I never noticed Fitz's mechanics until I saw him at camp. It is very pronounced at ground level when you are close to him.

 

I like everything about Fitz, except for this. I cannot imagine he can become an accurate passer for anything but short routes with those mechanics.

Earlier in this thread I posted a youtube video of Fitz throwing a 50 yard pass to Stevie Johnson, perfectly thrown ball over Johnson's outside shoulder where the defender couldn't reach it even if he were right on top of Johnson.( too bad Johnson dropped it) I'll stand by my opinion that Fitz doesn't always have a pocket to step up into, and he tries to get the ball out so fast he isn't always properly setup when he does throw it. Fitz reminds me of Favre who didn't always strive to set up properly and threw the ball when he thought he could make it work. Brett Favre also holds the NFL career record in interceptions with his version of gunslinger mentality.

 

I'd have to think if Fitz's throwing motion was causing his inaccuracy I can't imagine Chan Gailey being fine with it, and not trying to correct it. JMO tho.

 

 

 

Anyway, regardless of Fitz. This team isn't going very far if they don't fix that O line this year. Buddy Nix went after OT Tyson Clabo last off season in July and after the draft, and I think he had a strong reason to do so. This move tells me that Nix wasn't entirely happy with that line. The problem is after he couldn't sign Clabo it looked like he gave up in adding OT depth to that line. Then to compound that issue the Bills cut G, back up center Geoff Hangartner in preseason....this one move really screwed the Bills hopes of a winning season. Hangman was the only reliable back up center on the team. Do you recall that Miami game where Levitre was the center, what a nightmare.

 

Then after last season judging the performance of that line after Bell had his season long injury troubles, then Eric Wood went on IR in week 9...that's when the long downhill slide started big time. This is the second year in a row that Center Eric Wood finished the year on IR. I know nobody remembers, but I stated last off season that the line would haunt the team all year. I'm thinking it will again unless the Bills add more talent and depth.

 

If I'm Buddy Nix I'm looking at the up coming draft and trying to figure out how I draft either OT Riley Reiff / Jonathan Martin THEN trade back up in the first round and get either guard OG David DeCastro / Cordy Glenn. Woo, what a line the Bills would have in 2012

[NewEra]

1333408119[/url]' post='2428528']

Comparing the stats between the 4 QB's is kind of pointless considering the difference in those 3 other teams

 

Consider the talent around all 4 QB's, then tell me that any of those 3 could have done better in Buffalo then Fitz did these past two years. Think more in terms of exactly what Fitz has had to deal with vs those 3 other teams loaded with offensive talent.

 

A Bills defense so bad it set a record for worst in franchise history in 2010 and wasn't much better last season.... which means opposing teams usually get the lead and then they can blitz the hell outta the QB. I highly doubt stone legged Flacco could even survive a game behind this current Bill O line, and Ryan / Sanchez aren't known for their scrambling ability either.

 

Understand that the Bills O line in 2010 was so bad that Fitz was on par with Michael Vick in yards per carry, basically running for his life most every other play. The pocket lasted about 2 seconds and he rarely had time to step up in the pocket which is the typical norm for most QB's to complete passes. 2011 it got somewhat better until Wood went on IR, then the crap hit the fan again.

 

Bills team, ONE freaking decent WR that drops a lot of passes in Stevie Johnson. the Bills #2 WR on the roster most of the this year was the back up QB in Brad Smith. exactly how do you compare that to (Anquan Boldin-Torey Smith / TE Ed Dickson) (Santonio Holms / Plaxico Burris / TE Dustin Keller)-(Roddy White / Julio Jones /TE Anthony Gonzalaz)

 

Do I really need to go over the offensive lines, the different offensive schemes, the coaching?

 

The Bills might have looked good in the first 5 games last year, but they were masking the limited offense set up by Chan Gailey with that short quick passing scheme that eventually was figured out and shut down by most good defenses the Bills faced in the second half of last year.

 

 

I still contend that if you put Fitz on any of those 3 other teams he could have played as good, if not better then those other QB's. I also still contend the current Bills offense needs some major upgrades in order to improve and be completely comparable to the Ravens-Falcons-Jets

 

I agree with the stats. When you said fitz did more with less than the other 3, the only thing that he really did more with less with is statistically. He definitely didn't do more with less regarding wins.

Bottom line. You think fitz is as good as Matt Ryan. I think that's ridiculous. Sanchez, I agree. Flacco, eh. I'm not a big fan of the guy, but I'd rather have him than fitz. I'd bet at least 90% of the GMs agree with me.

[thewildrabbit]

I agree with the stats. When you said fitz did more with less than the other 3, the only thing that he really did more with less with is statistically. He definitely didn't do more with less regarding wins.

Bottom line. You think fitz is as good as Matt Ryan. I think that's ridiculous. Sanchez, I agree. Flacco, eh. I'm not a big fan of the guy, but I'd rather have him than fitz. I'd bet at least 90% of the GMs agree with me.

I don't think you get what I'm saying. Ryan, Flacco, and Sanchez might all look good to great on paper, or even on their respective teams. But none of those guys would have lasted very long behind the Bills O line the last two years.

 

I'm happy for you that you think Ryan is the better QB on a better team or even Flacco. I happen to think both those QB's would have sucked badly in Buffalo. My take is not one of those 3 would have survived a season.

 

We fans honestly don't know if Fitz can be better then Matt Ryan or not, look at the crap Bills teams he has been on. How many times do I need to point out the deficiencies of the Bills teams the last two years, or the pro bowlers and super stars on the Falcons, Ravens, Jets.

 

I for one would really like to see what Fitz could do with a good or even a half way decent team around him for a full season.

[NewEra]

1333519683[/url]' post='2429702']

I don't think you get what I'm saying. Ryan, Flacco, and Sanchez might all look good to great on paper, or even on their respective teams. But none of those guys would have lasted very long behind the Bills O line the last two years.

 

I'm happy for you that you think Ryan is the better QB on a better team or even Flacco. I happen to think both those QB's would have sucked badly in Buffalo. My take is not one of those 3 would have survived a season.

 

We fans honestly don't know if Fitz can be better then Matt Ryan or not, look at the crap Bills teams he has been on. How many times do I need to point out the deficiencies of the Bills teams the last two years, or the pro bowlers and super stars on the Falcons, Ravens, Jets.

 

I for one would really like to see what Fitz could do with a good or even a half way decent team around him for a full season.

 

Well, sorry to say it, but fitz didn't last the season either. Sure he played, but he played like crap, had broken ribs (or whatever injury he had). The falcons OL isn't that much better than ours. When I watch Ryan play, I see a smart qb that makes great decision, has an above average yards and knows how to close out games. Sure, his surrounding cast is better, but so is he. It's obvious to me. To make these comparisons and then say "fitz would do better if he had better talent" is a one sides argument. No one can prove you wrong, bit it doesn't make right. This year, it looks like we'll have more talent on both sides of the ball. We'll have this discussion after the season. We play one of the easiest schedules I've ever seen this year. With more talent on the team, an easy schedule and a full year of training camp, there will be no more excuses. This is the year he needs to put up or shut up. I'm pulling for the guy.

[benderbender]

Despite what anyone feels about Fitz, I hate our lack of attention to the OL. We could have made the playoffs last season if we had any depth at all.

Edited April 4, 2012 by benderbender

[Smears]

Fitz is good enough to get the Bills to the playoffs. He is dangerous outside the pocket unlike Brady, he can run and throw blocks, etc. I like our gunslinger and he definitely has some Favre in him. Some posters seem to paint him as a screw up. I believe in him. He needs to not force things, take whats given to him in certain situations. Hopefully with an improved defense some of these things will be corrected. I feel he is a better QB than Rob Johnson, JP, Edwards.

[Since 1972]

Fitz is good enough to get the Bills to the playoffs. He is dangerous outside the pocket unlike Brady, he can run and throw blocks, etc. I like our gunslinger and he definitely has some Favre in him. Some posters seem to paint him as a screw up. I believe in him. He needs to not force things, take whats given to him in certain situations. Hopefully with an improved defense some of these things will be corrected. I feel he is a better QB than Rob Johnson, JP, Edwards.

Better than RJ,JP and TE? That's not sayin much!

[CodeMonkey]

I'd have to think if Fitz's throwing motion was causing his inaccuracy I can't imagine Chan Gailey being fine with it, and not trying to correct it. JMO tho.

Oh there is no way at this point in his career that Fitz is going to change his throwing motion that severely.

I think Gailey knows Fitz's deep ball limitations and figures he (Gailey) can work within that constraint. I'm sure Gailey loves all the other things Fitz brings to the table, particularly his toughness. And why wouldn't he?

[thewildrabbit]

Well, sorry to say it, but fitz didn't last the season either. Sure he played, but he played like crap, had broken ribs (or whatever injury he had). The falcons OL isn't that much better than ours. When I watch Ryan play, I see a smart qb that makes great decision, has an above average yards and knows how to close out games. Sure, his surrounding cast is better, but so is he. It's obvious to me. To make these comparisons and then say "fitz would do better if he had better talent" is a one sides argument. No one can prove you wrong, bit it doesn't make right. This year, it looks like we'll have more talent on both sides of the ball. We'll have this discussion after the season. We play one of the easiest schedules I've ever seen this year. With more talent on the team, an easy schedule and a full year of training camp, there will be no more excuses. This is the year he needs to put up or shut up. I'm pulling for the guy.

Now you are arguing just to argue.

 

Matt Ryan has not won a single play off game despite having some of the best talent in the NFL on his offense. The #8 overall best WR in the league in Roddy White, (White was the #2 WR in 2010) plus a new top rookie WR in Julio Jones that was making all sorts of big plays when he wasn't injured. A future HoF, and one of the very best tight ends in the league in Tony Gonzalaz.The #3 RB in the NFL in Michael Turner.

 

There is no freaking comparison to Stevie Johnson who was the #19 best WR in the league last year, and he still dropped a lot of passes. Fred Jackson & Eric Wood who both could have made the pro bowl if they lasted more then 9 & 10 games respectively. Like I said, you can't compare a crap team to a team loaded with talent

 

Their O line is way better then the Bills, kinda why Buddy Nix went after their RT Tyson Clabo last off season. Their defense was way better....again I shouldn't have to keep reiterating these same points over and over. Either you like to argue over nothing or you love Matt Ryan, and IDC which. Fitz did way more with way less and almost no team around him for 2 years now. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco or Mark Sanchez wouldn't have lasted the season on their feet as the starting QB in Buffalo. I'd take Fitz as QB of the Buffalo Bills over any of those 3.

 

The Bills still need to upgrade that O line, upgrade the WR's & TE's or nothing changes on the offense...

 

Oh there is no way at this point in his career that Fitz is going to change his throwing motion that severely.

I think Gailey knows Fitz's deep ball limitations and figures he (Gailey) can work within that constraint. I'm sure Gailey loves all the other things Fitz brings to the table, particularly his toughness. And why wouldn't he?

 

I'll try to get some more detailed info on exactly what some coaches think on this subject. I still think you are way off base that he has deep ball accuracy issues because of his throwing motion ....or the guy simply wouldn't be an NFL QB.

[stony]

Now you are arguing just to argue.

 

Matt Ryan has not won a single play off game despite having some of the best talent in the NFL on his offense. The #8 overall best WR in the league in Roddy White, (White was the #2 WR in 2010) plus a new top rookie WR in Julio Jones that was making all sorts of big plays when he wasn't injured. A future HoF, and one of the very best tight ends in the league in Tony Gonzalaz.The #3 RB in the NFL in Michael Turner.

 

There is no freaking comparison to Stevie Johnson who was the #19 best WR in the league last year, and he still dropped a lot of passes. Fred Jackson & Eric Wood who both could have made the pro bowl if they lasted more then 9 & 10 games respectively. Like I said, you can't compare a crap team to a team loaded with talent

 

Their O line is way better then the Bills, kinda why Buddy Nix went after their RT Tyson Clabo last off season. Their defense was way better....again I shouldn't have to keep reiterating these same points over and over. Either you like to argue over nothing or you love Matt Ryan, and IDC which. Fitz did way more with way less and almost no team around him for 2 years now. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco or Mark Sanchez wouldn't have lasted the season on their feet as the starting QB in Buffalo. I'd take Fitz as QB of the Buffalo Bills over any of those 3.

 

The Bills still need to upgrade that O line, upgrade the WR's & TE's or nothing changes on the offense...

 

 

 

I'll try to get some more detailed info on exactly what some coaches think on this subject. I still think you are way off base that he has deep ball accuracy issues because of his throwing motion ....or the guy simply wouldn't be an NFL QB.

 

And we should be thanking Clabo he didn't take the money because he was horrible. Pears > Clabo.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

I'll try to get some more detailed info on exactly what some coaches think on this subject. I still think you are way off base that he has deep ball accuracy issues because of his throwing motion ....or the guy simply wouldn't be an NFL QB.

 

Right. The notion that the guy is as fundamentally flawed as some indicate but somehow still holding down an nfl starting qb job as one of the best 30 qb's in the world is a little silly.

 

They are trying to piece together an offense around him. A few big fast targets will make a lot of difference.

[Deadstroke]

If Fitz, who I believe just doesn't have the arm to get the job done, can't get us to the superbowl there are still ways to get a good good QB without drafting in the top ten, because I doubt we will be there any time soon. A top QB could acquired if a Good QB has an injury and his team doesn't want him anymore like Peyton and Brees. Maybe Roethlisberger gets killed again behind that line cuz they need upgrades everywhere but center and they can't do it in one year. Or guys like Mallett or Skelton become trade bait, really wish we would have drafted Mallett over Sheppard and am really Glad we got Ed Wang and Levi Brown over Skelton. Then there is the Chance that we get a mid round prospect that becomes a star like Joe Montana and Brady, Guys like Kirk Cousins, Brock Osweiler, B.J. Coleman and Nick Foles.

My greatest hope is Fitz turns into Drew Brees but if that doesn't happen we are going to need an upgrade at the QB position.

 

Go back to sleep for awhile. We WILL go into the playoffs this year, and probably past the first round or two.

 

This is a solid team, my friend, and Fitzpatrick can take us where we need to go. Keep in mind, he started off the year great last year before suffering cracked ribs.

[Van_phelaN1]

I support Fitz since he is our starting quarterback. Put saying we are "respectable" with a guy that has a losing record as a starter is a little over the top man.

 

That losing record also belongs to the teams he played for. How many of those losses were clearly because of how Fitz played? The guy is hardly the greatest QB of all time, but I think he can get the job done and he is certainly the best option the Bills have on their roster at the moment. I support Fitz but I will admit that it is time to show us that baby everyone keeps talking about or start looking for someone who can.

[NewEra]

1333621775[/url]' post='2430749']

Now you are arguing just to argue.

 

Matt Ryan has not won a single play off game despite having some of the best talent in the NFL on his offense. The #8 overall best WR in the league in Roddy White, (White was the #2 WR in 2010) plus a new top rookie WR in Julio Jones that was making all sorts of big plays when he wasn't injured. A future HoF, and one of the very best tight ends in the league in Tony Gonzalaz.The #3 RB in the NFL in Michael Turner.

 

There is no freaking comparison to Stevie Johnson who was the #19 best WR in the league last year, and he still dropped a lot of passes. Fred Jackson & Eric Wood who both could have made the pro bowl if they lasted more then 9 & 10 games respectively. Like I said, you can't compare a crap team to a team loaded with talent

 

Their O line is way better then the Bills, kinda why Buddy Nix went after their RT Tyson Clabo last off season. Their defense was way better....again I shouldn't have to keep reiterating these same points over and over. Either you like to argue over nothing or you love Matt Ryan, and IDC which. Fitz did way more with way less and almost no team around him for 2 years now. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco or Mark Sanchez wouldn't have lasted the season on their feet as the starting QB in Buffalo. I'd take Fitz as QB of the Buffalo Bills over any of those 3.

 

The Bills still need to upgrade that O line, upgrade the WR's & TE's or nothing changes on the offense...

 

 

 

I'll try to get some more detailed info on exactly what some coaches think on this subject. I still think you are way off base that he has deep ball accuracy issues because of his throwing motion ....or the guy simply wouldn't be an NFL QB.

 

This is the issue I have. You keep saying he did way more with way less than Ryan. He had less tds, less yards, less wins and more ints (almost double) than Ryan. How did he do way more? He did what he did with less, but he didn't do more. This is what I'm arguing. Show me something that can make me believe he did more. I understand he has less talent. Every qb in the league that has less, does more with less, because they have less. Ryan can't do more with less, because he doesn't have less. Ryan did more with more.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

This is the issue I have. You keep saying he did way more with way less than Ryan. He had less tds, less yards, less wins and more ints (almost double) than Ryan. How did he do way more? He did what he did with less, but he didn't do more. This is what I'm arguing. Show me something that can make me believe he did more. I understand he has less talent.

 

Every qb in the league that has less, does more with less, because they have less. Ryan can't do more with less, because he doesn't have less. Ryan did more with more.

So in summation… ?

 

 

 

[thewildrabbit]

This is the issue I have. You keep saying he did way more with way less than Ryan. He had less tds, less yards, less wins and more ints (almost double) than Ryan. How did he do way more? He did what he did with less, but he didn't do more. This is what I'm arguing. Show me something that can make me believe he did more. I understand he has less talent. Every qb in the league that has less, does more with less, because they have less. Ryan can't do more with less, because he doesn't have less. Ryan did more with more.

Thought we agreed comparing QB stats was pointless? Anyway, It seems further discussions with you on this topic are looking moot as you obviously just don't have the imagination to think what would happen to Matt Ryan if he had been the Bills QB the last two years. Clearly you just don't comprehend just how bad the Bills teams have been the last two years in terms of WR's,TE's and O line. Not evey QB in the league could have done as well as Fitz with the talent he has around him, 3000 yards in 2010 is unreal. Then 3800+ yards in 2011 with one half way decent WR on the roster and the 3rd string QB as the #2 WR. is almost unbelievable to me! I suppose you just don't see it.

 

 

BTW, Matt Ryan hasn't really done all that great in terms of playoff wins considering how good a team he has been on since he was drafted by Atlanta, same coaches, same system, same players and yet not one play off win. 11-5, 9-7, 13-3,10-6. The year they went 13-3 they were smoked by the 9-7 Packers in Atlanta. Think for a min what Jim Kelly did with the Bills when he arrived in 86. Kelly in his first playoff game, he won it. In his first 4 years with the Bills he had already been to a SB and won numerous HOME playoff games. So Matt Ryan's ability to win big games is very questionable considering the talent around him.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Despite what anyone feels about Fitz, I hate our lack of attention to the OL. We could have made the playoffs last season if we had any depth at all.

 

This.

 

And possibly, if Fitz had started the season wearing a rib protector instead of adding it after the fact.

 

Oh there is no way at this point in his career that Fitz is going to change his throwing motion that severely.

I think Gailey knows Fitz's deep ball limitations and figures he (Gailey) can work within that constraint. I'm sure Gailey loves all the other things Fitz brings to the table, particularly his toughness. And why wouldn't he?

 

I don't know about "that severely". It's clear that Fitz can throw an accurate deep ball and does on occasion. But he isn't consistent enough with that throw.

 

The interview quotes from new QB coach David Lee strongly imply that he feels Fitz is doing something incorrect with his feet at least some of the time when he sets and throws that impacts accuracy, and that he (Lee) feels he can improve that if Fitz will take coaching.

[thewildrabbit]

This.

 

And possibly, if Fitz had started the season wearing a rib protector instead of adding it after the fact.

 

 

 

I don't know about "that severely". It's clear that Fitz can throw an accurate deep ball and does on occasion. But he isn't consistent enough with that throw.

 

The interview quotes from new QB coach David Lee strongly imply that he feels Fitz is doing something incorrect with his feet at least some of the time when he sets and throws that impacts accuracy, and that he (Lee) feels he can improve that if Fitz will take coaching.

 

Yea, like I mentioned getting those passes out in 2 seconds and under can be a big factor as to why Fitz isn't setup properly when he throws. I'll bet the majority of the bad passes are usually the result of being hurried so often. A better line can fix that, along with more time in an actual pocket.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Yea, like I mentioned getting those passes out in 2 seconds and under can be a big factor as to why Fitz isn't setup properly when he throws. I'll bet the majority of the bad passes are usually the result of being hurried so often. A better line can fix that, along with more time in an actual pocket.

 

I tend to agree with you that there's a difference between "quick release" and "too quick" and that Fitz went over that line sometimes esp. with the injuries to the OL. I think it led to his league-leading INTs.

 

But actually, in the David Lee interview I heard, he commented that Fitz throws very accurately when he doesn't have time to set and is making "funny body" throws, and that this trait is something that is pretty much impossible to teach - but that sometimes Fitz is inaccurate when he does have time to set up in the pocket. His comment was that this had to do with how he sets his feet, and that it was something he felt he could help Fitz improve.

 

I looked for the article so I could link it- I'll edit and put it in if I can.